title says it all. just wondering what people like/dislike. i cant decide if they're a viable class or not. eidolon seems a tad weak, but that's just from a glance.
and i mean summoner THE CLASS
title says it all. just wondering what people like/dislike. i cant decide if they're a viable class or not. eidolon seems a tad weak, but that's just from a glance.
It's considered the be on of the most powerful classes in the game. Not only can the eidolon combine natural attacks and weapon attacks together to generate insane amounts of damage. The summoner is an amazing buffer at the same time. If you go master summoner as a summoner you can cover the damage dealer, the tank, the skill monkey, and the buffer in a party. The only thing is that barbarians, fighters, and cavaliers out damage the eidolon if damage reduction is involved. Oh btw you can edit posts.
Its good in that it allows for alot of fun concepts that other Clases just cannot really fulfull. The problem thogh is compared to other classes the Eidolon can be horribly complicated and there seems to be alot of issues because of poorly read rules.
I like them, About the only thing i am iffy on is the Archtype that puts the Eidolon around the summoner. On paper it seems to be a bit 'too much' but i dont have any personal experience, just running numbers.
I did however have alot of fun with my lance using mounted pegacorn (thats pegasus unicorn) Summoner.
Its good in that it allows for alot of fun concepts that other Clases just cannot really fulfull. The problem thogh is compared to other classes the Eidolon can be horribly complicated and there seems to be alot of issues because of poorly read rules.
I like them, About the only thing i am iffy on is the Archtype that puts the Eidolon around the summoner. On paper it seems to be a bit 'too much' but i dont have any personal experience, just running numbers.
I did however have alot of fun with my lance using mounted pegacorn (thats pegasus unicorn) Summoner.
Actually the normal or master summoner is better just because of action economy.
Actually the normal or master summoner is better just because of action economy.Its good in that it allows for alot of fun concepts that other Clases just cannot really fulfull. The problem thogh is compared to other classes the Eidolon can be horribly complicated and there seems to be alot of issues because of poorly read rules.
I like them, About the only thing i am iffy on is the Archtype that puts the Eidolon around the summoner. On paper it seems to be a bit 'too much' but i dont have any personal experience, just running numbers.
I did however have alot of fun with my lance using mounted pegacorn (thats pegasus unicorn) Summoner.
The action Economy thing honestly really depends. and the issues withthe synthesist depend alot as well.
First the group i play with alot of games end before or around lvl 8, So a character that can self buff to 3-40 ac without alot of effort is a big deal. Secondly none of them seriously optimize so a Monster that can hit that eassily would be a big deal for the rest of the players.
Thirdly in my experience (again this is up to lvl 8ish) Alot of the lower level summoned monests kind of suck. having alot out is kind of useless if they cant actually hit anything.
This issue does seem to change from my brief higher level experience around lvl 9-10 when my pegacorn character could summon monsters that had SLA
Actually the normal or master summoner is better just because of action economy.Its good in that it allows for alot of fun concepts that other Clases just cannot really fulfull. The problem thogh is compared to other classes the Eidolon can be horribly complicated and there seems to be alot of issues because of poorly read rules.
I like them, About the only thing i am iffy on is the Archtype that puts the Eidolon around the summoner. On paper it seems to be a bit 'too much' but i dont have any personal experience, just running numbers.
I did however have alot of fun with my lance using mounted pegacorn (thats pegasus unicorn) Summoner.
The action Economy thing honestly really depends. and the issues withthe synthesist depend alot as well.
First the group i play with alot of games end before or around lvl 8, So a character that can self buff to 3-40 ac without alot of effort is a big deal. Secondly none of them seriously optimize so a Monster that can hit that eassily would be a big deal for the rest of the players.
Thirdly in my experience (again this is up to lvl 8ish) Alot of the lower level summoned monests kind of suck. having alot out is kind of useless if they cant actually hit anything.
This issue does seem to change from my brief higher level experience around lvl 9-10 when my pegacorn character could summon monsters that had SLA
Why are they having a had time hitting when they have haste hasted on with augment summoning?
title says it all. just wondering what people like/dislike. i cant decide if they're a viable class or not. eidolon seems a tad weak, but that's just from a glance.Ok, so I'm curious, what seems weak about the Eidolon to you?
i dont remember. looked a few months back.
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At low levels it's pretty easy to build an eidolon which will regularly out-perform the PC combat-types in the party... and which also doesn't have to worry about getting killed, since it just comes back the next day anyway. At high levels it's more of an effort to build an eidolon which out-performs the combat PCs... but still very do-able (hint: start with Pounce and work it out from there...). Another consideration is that, since the eidolon gets flat Ability Scores, the lower points-buy your PCs are built on, the better the eidolon is by comparison (this goes double for Synthesists). Also, apart from as a combat-machine, an eidolon can be an incredible utility resource and skill monkey, especially when you get the 'evolution' spells.
But the eidolon is probably the least powerful part of the Summoner class, if it's being played by anyone with experience in the game...
The Summon Monster SLA is simply OTT. It's a SLA, so you can whip it out with no effort and a standard action, and lasts 10x longer than the equivalent spell. That means the Summoner gets access to all the various abilities, spells, and powers of any monster he can access on the Summon Monster list. By mid to high levels he can pretty easily cover the various roles other PCs usually take in a party. A Summoner with any sense can 'solo' (as he's never really 'solo' with his great access to buddies) better than any other class, and will have to deliberately tone himself down and hold back to avoid completely overshadowing the rest of the party. Archetypes aside, he can only have either the eidolon or one use of his SLA ability 'out' at once... but he gets plenty of uses a day, and each use is pretty powerful, so that's not a huge limitation.
At the very basic level, the class is designed to break normal action economy - as is all summoning magic - this guy just does it better than anyone else.
On top of all that, his 'limited' spell list includes everything he'd ever need, including stuff like invisibility (even though illusion magic has nothing to do with the class, summoning whilst invisible is such a powerful and obvious tactic I guess the designers thought they may as well throw it in there, instead of having every Summoner in the world stocking up on invisibility-inducing magic items), and haste at a lower level than anyone else in the game.
Then, just in case he's not kicking enough bottom with all that, the guy also has the ¾ martial progression of a Cleric, Rogue, or Bard, a d8 Hit Die, and can cast arcane spells in light armour - so he's hardly a wimp, even without any of his summoned buddies around.
Until the Clerics and Wizards start hitting the miracle and wish phase of their careers, the Summoner is probably the most powerful class in the game, IMHO.
Weaknesses..?
The stupid glowing rune on your forehead maybe... although that can be foiled by a hat... not a magical hat mind you, just a normal, everyday, bog-standard hat to cover it... you can have one for free with the outfit all characters get at level one...
So yeah, go nuts - kick posterior and take nom-de-plumes! :)
SLA= Spell-like Ability
Good: So far its been a very powerful class at lower levels
It does feel different than most of the standard classes.
There's a LOT of variety in terms of what you can make.
Bad:
Making the edilion without breaking any of the rules can be a little tricky. Its pretty common to see a dm or other player come on and say "arrrgh! The edilion is killing everything!" because the edilon was given too many attacks or evolution points.
The main focus of the summoner class is on the edilon. It reverses the druid/pet dynamic in that the "pet" is the main character of the two and the summoner is almost a sidekick. If you have someone role playing they either need to roleplay two characters, put themselves in a highly alien mindset of the edilon, or role play as the summoner even though the reason everyone is hanging around him is the pet.
** spoiler omitted **** spoiler omitted **
lol
Good: The Eidolon and the assorted evolutions offer players options that cannot be reproduced by any other combination of race and class(es)
Bad: The Eidolon and the assorted evolutions offer players options that cannot be reproduced by any other combination of race and class(es)
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... The main focus of the summoner class is on the edilon...
I'd say that the eidolon is simply the most obvious part of the class - as it gets a ton of pages devoted to in. Those Summoners who look past the eidolon and begin to rock the Summon Monster SLA (Spell-Like Ability) are the ones who tend to really blow the competition away. Often you'll see it happen almost by accident - the eidolon gets dropped in combat, the Summoner's player panics for a moment, then realises he can drop a bunch of critters on the battlefield as a standard action, then a look of realisation slowly starts to dawn on his face as they proceed to mop up... then he starts to thumb through his copy of the Bestiary... then you start to hear stuff like...
'Hey - did you guys know a Lantern Archon's light ray overcomes any type of damage reduction?'
or
'For my standard action I'll summon... ... five celestial leopards, who all pounce and rake the bad guy. Then, for my move action I'll...'
... Yeah - good times! If the player of a Summoner sticks with the eidolon exclusively then their DM probably breathes a little easier... ;)
I don't like the summoner (both the class, and the way the concept is executed in general). Combat is slow enough as it is, adding in even more characters in combat just makes it worse.
I've gone so far as to outright ban the summon monster and natures ally spells, familiars, and class-granted pets and mounts. (You can still buy normal animals as pets, and mounts. But just realize they will suck in combat.)