Large Creatures in Grapples

[Kalraan]

Ok, having had a look through the forums, I can't seem to find anything to answer the question I have about rules which come into effect with varying size creatures in combat. I recall something from 3.5 which said that creatures of 2 or more size categories larger than the grappler can ignore the grappler, but can't seem to find anything in Pathfinder. Where can I find the rules about size difference with grappling as the latest edition doesn't seem to cover it.

Thanks in advance.

[spalding]

That's because they aren't there.

Quote:

As a standard action, you can attempt to grapple a foe, hindering his combat options. If you do not have Improved Grapple, grab, or a similar ability, attempting to grapple a foe provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of your maneuver. Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll. If successful, both you and the target gain the grappled condition. If you successfully grapple a creature that is not adjacent to you, move that creature to an adjacent open space (if no space is available, your grapple fails). Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).

As it stands the only advantage to being bigger is the fact that you have a much higher CMD to start with:

Quote:

Special Size Modifier

The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Defense is as follows:

Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8.

Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMD when resisting specific maneuvers.

[Kalraan]

So by that, a medium size creature could be grappled by a tiny grappler? That just doesn't seem right.

[spalding]

I've seen cats do it. I've not seen them succeed on the pin though. Realize that grappling doesn't mean rolling on the floor or anything anymore -- it simply means you have a hold on them.

[Kalraan]

That may be true however it shouldn't prevent the person from moving. As the grappler you can move at half speed away and in effect moving with the opponent. However the opponent can't move. So if you are saying that for the purpose of the rules, that if the tiny grappler is grappling an opponent, it can move but the opponent can't, then that seems a little silly. Perhaps if there was a rule that allowed the opponent to move without changing the grappled status but moves at half speed but remains attached to the grappler, than that I could believe.

[spalding]

Never said it didn't result in some odd situations.

[Laffite5150]

Question: I play a half-orc that became permanently Enlarged. Now, I stand 12'8", and weight just under 2000 pounds. Is there nothing that says that i would be harder to trip? I mean, a normal person trying to trip a 2000 pound person should surely get some extra negs?

[Victor Zajic]

You get a +1 to your CMD for being large, that makes you harder to trip.

3.5 had larger size modifiers to things like this, but it created a situation where it was next to impossible to defend against larger creatures that wanted to trip or grapple you. Personally, I think Paizo might have gone too far in their attempt to fix said problem, but that's a debate for another time.

[Rikkan]

But being large also means you have a -1 armour class penalty and all armour class penalties also count against your CMD right?

[Mojorat]

The size bonus to cmb/cmd takes precisence. You normally apply all ac penalties to cmd but there is a specific size modifier for grappling.

So an ogre gets +5 str +3 bab +1 size for 9 cmb

And 8-1+3+1 +10 for 18 cmd.

I don't know where it is explained but all monsters are built this way. In the reverse a halfling gets -1 to cmb/cmd and does not get the hit or ac + for small size.