I really like the Dirty Trick maneuver and the associated feats, at least in theory, but I'm not sure they really fit well with the Combat Expertise feat tree.
It doesn't seem to me that a dirty trick is a feat that requires much in the way of skill- it's nasty, unexpected, spur of the moment stuff. Having it in the Combat Expertise tree adds that 13 Int requirement that blocks it from many decent Fighter concepts (the nasty brute that barrels into combat; the tough that grew up on the streets but lacks formal education; etc.), and- as already stated- just doesn't seem to fit the idea of Combat Expertise as a tree that represents more formal combat training.
Anyone have any particular thoughts as to why CE was chosen as a requirement for this, and/or where it might be a better fit? Obviously, it could be houseruled away somehow, but I'm curious to hear other ideas.
It's an artifact of past editions.
Well all the other combat manouver feats have either CE or PA as prerequisite.
You could probably change it to "Combat Expertise or Power Attack", that way it still has a feat tax attached but more open for other concepts.
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Just because it's creative, devious, or underhanded doesn't mean it's not smart.
Also:
doesn't seem to fit the idea of Combat Expertise as a tree that represents more formal combat training.
Who says it's formal training? INT 13 has nothing to do with schooling. It has to do with natural capability. And having the Improved Dirty Trick feat doesn't mean you've had special training, it means you've learned (one way or another) how to do it well and without letting your guard down.
The urchin who grew up in the street and learned how to defend himself in creative ways must have been smart to do it. The guy whose INT isn't high enough to take the feat can still throw sand in your eyes, he's just not smart or skilled enough to do it as flawlessly as the clever, Aladdin-style "street rat".
I don't get why people on these boards keep balking at the 13 INT and Combat Expertise when in books, TV and movies it's pretty much always the smart guy who uses dirty tricks effectively - and uses them against the dumb brute that posters here seem to think should be just as good at them.
The main problem is that combat expertise is often a feat that those wanting the combat maneuvers simply don't want and even when they get it, never use it.
Just because it's creative, devious, or underhanded doesn't mean it's not smart.
I'm really pleased that someone else knows about the Straw Vulcan, but aren't tropes a useful tool for storytellers? Or are they just lazy?
I know im in houserule areas here but for those disliking combat expertise try one of my fixes.
You just have to be able to explain how your style lowers one to raise the other.
Ask your GM first of course and YMMV
Would it just be easier to disconnect the various manoeuvre feats (Trip, Bull Rush, Dirty Trick, etc.) from Power Attack/Combat Expertise. Then just run them as feats you pick up without the pre-requisites of 13 Strength or Intelligence. OK, this means you theoretically could have a Strength 5 guy who has improved/greater bull rush - but this won't get him very far anyway. On the other hand rogues with average intelligence could pick up cool characterful stuff like feint or dirty trick while making the class a little less MAD?