| Icyshadow |
Okay, I know it's an unusual sight even by the canon of the setting, but Lawful Neutral followers of Zon-Kuthon do exist and are indeed possible, and there was a thread on this once that I felt like ressurecting, but then I changed my mind.
So, any tips on how I should build up on the attitude (towards her allies) and rituals of my Cleric of Zon-Kuthon (who will later take levels in Pain Taster when I do get to play some day) that I might not have thought of? I mean, I do know she's unusually calm and leaning more towards masochism instead of sadism, and is sorta protective of her allies, whom she regards more as "people she happens to kinda like" instead of as "friends".
She's probably wearing something painful (and arguably kinky) under her robes (though she has some clearly visible piercings on her ears) and is reluctant about hurting halflings due to having been (accidentally) freed by the Bellflower Network (she was formerly a slave in Cheliax) but really, REALLY enjoys hurting followers of Asmodeus and Lamashtu. As a side-note, I really hope I don't need to bump this thread like I've been forced to bump other threads I've made lately.
| Ainslan |
Okay, I know it's an unusual sight even by the canon of the setting, but Lawful Neutral followers of Zon-Kuthon do exist and are indeed possible, and there was a thread on this once that I felt like ressurecting, but then I changed my mind.
So, any tips on how I should build up on the attitude (towards her allies) and rituals of my Cleric of Zon-Kuthon (who will later take levels in Pain Taster when I do get to play some day) that I might not have thought of? I mean, I do know she's unusually calm and leaning more towards masochism instead of sadism, and is sorta protective of her allies, whom she regards more as "people she happens to kinda like" instead of as "friends".
She's probably wearing something painful (and arguably kinky) under her robes (though she has some clearly visible piercings on her ears) and is reluctant about hurting halflings due to having been (accidentally) freed by the Bellflower Network (she was formerly a slave in Cheliax) but really, REALLY enjoys hurting followers of Asmodeus and Lamashtu. As a side-note, I really hope I don't need to bump this thread like I've been forced to bump other threads I've made lately.
This will be difficult at best, as Kuthites seldom have any other motivation than to inflict suffering on themselves or others, but clearly, you need a goal. A deeper motive that will push your character to do something other than flagellate herself and go out adventuring. Once this is done, the hardest part is behind you, as Kuthites are actuallty pretty good at blending in and not very agressive or disruptive toward others.
Attitude toward your allies should probably be one of disturbing indifference. They do their stuff, you do yours, and it just happen to be mutually beneficial. Depending on your party setup, you will be able to do wonders with the bluff and intimidate skills (actually you don't need bluff, since you'll probably mean it when you'll say "answer me and your pain MIGHT not last as long". Maybe they won't like you, but they will certainly respect your usefulness (avoid pallys tough).
As for your rituals, well flagelation, mutilation, self-cuts, S&M stuff is all good, just try not to go to far as the others players rarely enjoy hearing about that kind of stuff, or at least it tends to get really old really fast.
Lincoln Hills
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An interesting variant on the usual Lawful Neutral persona (assuming your Charisma's at least middling) is somebody who's quite personable, kindly and sociable - as long as her duty doesn't require otherwise. Once her duty to Zon-Kuthon is involved, "irrelevant" emotional attachments come a distant second. Even if she's not actively 'using' her friends, she regards their philosophies as flawed (and this subconscious arrogance might show through at times.)
One useful tip from my one time as an LE character is that you can play mental cruelty for laughs. I fondly remember the time our party walloped a dragon, forcing it to flee: then we looted the entire hoard. Just before we left, I turned and flicked one silver piece back into the cavern for the dragon to find when it returned... because that was crueller.
| Icyshadow |
The description you gave seems sorta fitting for her, Lincoln. Also, my version of mental cruelty that I imagined was her throwing jokes while using the Heal skill to put an ally's guts back in place, though she could always makes remarks about how she could make it that much more painful for the person in question...
| Egoish |
Mechanically and conceptually a LN kuthite may focus more on the pain of self rather than others, taking the burden (or pleasure) of all the parties damage could be her primary goal.
Your indifference to your party members plight would be secondary to your characters desire to have all of the pain focused on her and with sharing that pain with her adversaries rather than coddling the weaker party members and kissing their booboos better.
If you built her quite tanky with damage soaking abilities and spells/items that spread the pain around or take it from other people you can contribute without to much focus on the healing role which thematically wouldn't fit with your concept.
Shield other, unwilling shield, damage reduction, armour class, saves and buff spells can make you a productive party member without to much focus on the normal niceties of the cleric class. That would allow you to play an aloof disinterested character who just happens to soak up all the parties threats, it also gives you a reason to adventure to test your mettle against more painful opponents.
| Icyshadow |
Quoting a term from the Cleric optimization guide, the build I aimed for was a Bad Touch Cleric, basically the kind of guy to walk in, use touch attacks and maybe endure a few good hits while sapping all the power from the enemies (while taking hits from them at times). So yeah, a secondary tank (unless the Paladin/Fighter is out of the picture) as well as debuffer as a combat tactic does sound good, and I did have a vague concept on a notebook on what domains to pick, how to form her backstory and which stats to focus on.
Pain Taster gives Damage Reduction at the cost of losing caster levels (but flavor is also important, so no problem there), and I'd love to see her taunt orcs and gnolls to hurt her more. Domains that I'd pick are Darkness domain and the Undeath sub-domain, the latter to also make people feel disturbed when the Negative Energy actually heals them. Somehow I imagined a Paladin getting healed by her suddenly feeling horribly violated.
And of course, one thing I forgot to mention is that she's unusually calm and somewhat polite (arguably so, and sometimes she's not even trying) outside combat for the most part, though she's brutally honest when addressing the "unenlightened heathens" she has to associate with at times. As I mentioned in the first post, she especially hates followers of Asmodeus and Lamashtu, but has trouble hurting halflings and clerics of Shelyn, due to personal reasons. She also hates to hear others cry.
Luminiere Solas
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the big problem with playing a Kuthite is the expected associated baggage. i played a Kuthite before. She was a jailer, a torturer, an executioner, and the warden of the prince's main national prison. people feared Yamiko, she was one creepy but cute "little girl" you didn't want to mess with. she was 61 inches and 101 pounds. but she was over the legal age, despite looking drastically younger due to her tian heritage. she was an inquisitor of Zon-Kuthon who started as a "monk" of irori.
never question what casts she is wearing today nor where her bandages are.
never call her a creepy little girl, a bloodthirsty psycho nor a female dog
never insult nor question neither her Tian heritage nor her monasitc upbringing
don't you dare bring up the fact she dishonored her family, that gets you placed straight on the Judas Cradle.
bring up the fact she turned her back on Irori, and you get the Judas Cradle as well.
do not insult her scars, her lack of breasts, her lack of curves, nor any other part of her youthful appearance that usually gets you 2 days in solitary with no food.
| Icyshadow |
Do elaborate what you mean by "expected associated baggage".
Sure, some of the group members and some strangers/acquaintances would be concerned and ask questions, but Acantha would either simply not answer or be as cryptic about it as possible. Third option is to be so brutally honest about what happened to her that the person in questions dares not to ask any more than that. As said in that one thread I mentioned, even Sean K Reynolds himself said that the differnce between a Lawful Neutral and a Lawful Evil Kuthite is consent. A Neutral one would only torture when allowed (or when she feels the target deserves it), but an Evil one isn't as picky.
Luminiere Solas
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the expected associated baggage of a Kuthite.
some people i knew, assume that they are like the Cenobites from hellraiser, and assume you will do things like tear off a guy's flesh with fishhooks, and similar grotesque stuff.
the thing is, if you focus less on reenacting hellraiser, you are more likely to be accepted. the key to properly getting a Lawful Neutral cleric, inquisitor or other divine follower of Zon-Kuthon to work is to use as little excess detail as possible, and to find a set of laws to abide by.
Yamiko followed the laws of the prince of Ustalav, she did use favorable loopholes and ask permission for special circumstances. like requesting permission from the prince to slowly skin Razmir alive with a fish hook to make him confess about his lies. to make it worse, she fed the false god his own peeled flesh like grapes.
| Icyshadow |
I would probably explain how Kuthites work to the rest of the party before going on to actually playing one, just to avoid that situation. Then again, I don't want meta-gaming to happen, and Acantha would gladly tell them of the glorious church of the Midnight Lord. Then again, she'd also remind them that her colleagues are NOT as friendly as she is.
As for following laws, Acantha's knowledgeable about the laws of Cheliax (she was born there, after all) and Nidal (where she joined the Kuthites), but would probably do her part in knowing of the laws in whatever area she happens to currently be in so she could fit into the crowd more easily. Also, she usually wears long robes to hide her wounds from curious crowds, so being spotted is not very often a real concern.