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And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.
Funny. For those of you who will be offended by what I say next, I am sorry, the words are not mine and I found them to be sickening as well as infuriating.
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I encountered more overt racism living in Queens than I did in Dallas. That's right, Queens, the most diverse area in the country. Now that being said, I was horrified by the racism I encountered in West Memphis, Ark. back in the 90s, which was way out of line with my DFW upbringing. But this idea that racism is a Southern problem is nonsense, with which non-Southerners comfort themselves that THEY aren't racist. So HD, I'm not really even sure they hide it better. They might just be better at denial.
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And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.You ever been to Bensonhurst, South Boston, Indiana, much of the Midwest, quite a bit of Michigan, Upstate New York, rural Pennsylvania (I could go on and on).
Racism is everywhere. They just hide it better up north.
This.
As a friend from Atlanta put it to me: Down South, they are aware of racism and acknowledge race matters openly. Up North, it's frowned upon, so people hide it or share it only with people they trust.
To give the caffeinated construct the benefit of the doubt, however, I would rephrase his statement as, "It is unfortunate when stories like this arise and reinforce stereotypes about the South."
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And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.You ever been to Bensonhurst, South Boston, Indiana, much of the Midwest, quite a bit of Michigan, Upstate New York, rural Pennsylvania (I could go on and on).
Racism is everywhere. They just hide it better up north.
This.
As a friend from Atlanta put it to me: Down South, they are aware of racism and acknowledge race matters openly. Up North, it's frowned upon, so people hide it or share it only with people they trust.
To give the caffeinated construct the benefit of the doubt, however, I would rephrase his statement as, "It is unfortunate when stories like this arise and reinforce stereotypes about the South."
Fair enough. And if that's what he meant, then I apologize for getting my dander up.
I'm not going to say whether the north is more or less racist than the south or the east coast is more or less racist than the west coast as it'll all be correlations that does not result in causation a priori.
But, I do see an inclination about Northerners hiding their racism, though. An ex from over a decade ago went into waitressing after she dropped out of the stripping game and thus hung out with a bunch of fellow co-workers after hours. I kept hearing comments about French Canadians and their poor restaurant etiquette in higher end dining establishments. I had no idea what in the world people would be grousing about Québécois in Central Ohio.
I learned it was code for 'African American.'
Shame.
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Just another example of how people can twist their theology in a knot so it matches their preconceptions.This isn't theology at all. It's pretty much just: "We're racists. We don't like hanging around people who aren't. Please don't come bother us if you're not a racist."
Which, um. It's such a self-defeating throwback at this point, since they're literally throwing people out of their congregation because it of it, but there's no theological basis for it whatsoever.
Also, people who are trying to start a "North are hidden racists, south are overt racists" flamewar or responding in kind? Don't. You're speaking to people who can't understand how their handful of experiences couldn't possibly be generalized to all cases at best, or being baited at worst.
I've lived coast to coast and north to south, and it's pretty much the same everywhere I've lived. Some enlightened people, some really ignorant people, and everything in between, in about the same proportions.
Uh oh. Generalizing.
Master bait in full effect.
Why do you want to ruin the fun Derek? It's so much more awesome to label all Christians as hateful intolerant jerks.
When situations like this arise, it's hard not to. Maybe too hard.
And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.You ever been to Bensonhurst, South Boston, Indiana, much of the Midwest, quite a bit of Michigan, Upstate New York, rural Pennsylvania (I could go on and on).
Racism is everywhere. They just hide it better up north.
This.
As a friend from Atlanta put it to me: Down South, they are aware of racism and acknowledge race matters openly. Up North, it's frowned upon, so people hide it or share it only with people they trust.
To give the caffeinated construct the benefit of the doubt, however, I would rephrase his statement as, "It is unfortunate when stories like this arise and reinforce stereotypes about the South."
After having lived in Pennsylvania(Northampton) and different parts of Brooklyn(from Canarsie to Cortelyou road to Gravesend), and visiting my friend(who happens to be white and have a mixed race child) in Columbia, SC, I have to agree with this. It's weird. I agree it's more of an a%!#~@& problem than anything else, but the history in the South vs. that in the North is a complex one- people do tend to show their bigotry more openly the further south you go, and it seems to be both more accepted and fought against more the further south you go. It's weird. Still, you occasionally get situations like this that uphold stereotypes.
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After having lived in Pennsylvania(Northampton) and different parts of Brooklyn(from Canarsie to Cortelyou road to Gravesend), and visiting my friend(who happens to be white and have a mixed race child) in Columbia, SC, I have to agree with this. It's weird. I agree it's more of an a@*@&&+ problem than anything else, but the history in the South vs. that in the North is a complex one- people do tend to show their bigotry more openly the further south you go, and it seems to be both more accepted and fought against more the further south you go. It's weird. Still, you occasionally get situations like this that uphold stereotypes.And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.You ever been to Bensonhurst, South Boston, Indiana, much of the Midwest, quite a bit of Michigan, Upstate New York, rural Pennsylvania (I could go on and on).
Racism is everywhere. They just hide it better up north.
This.
As a friend from Atlanta put it to me: Down South, they are aware of racism and acknowledge race matters openly. Up North, it's frowned upon, so people hide it or share it only with people they trust.
To give the caffeinated construct the benefit of the doubt, however, I would rephrase his statement as, "It is unfortunate when stories like this arise and reinforce stereotypes about the South."
Really? because I have noticed the opposite. Of course I have never been far east. The west and midwest has some racist peeps of all stripes.
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The biggest racists are in Antarctica. You should hear what they say about the rest of the world population. Spoken like true Southerners.
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The last two things I'll say here.
1. The folks at that church who are in support of the new rule against interracial couples are not Christians by any definition I hold, I don't give a damn what church they attend.
And 2. Racism, or any type of bigotry for that matter, isn't limited to any one group. White, Black, Religious, Atheist, Northern, or Southern. A%%&$$~s exist everywhere, and they have the right to be like they are... they just better not spout that bile around me, I don't put up with it.
Y'all have fun now.
The last two things I'll say here.
1. The folks at that church who are in support of the new rule against interracial couples are not Christians by any definition I hold, I don't give a damn what church they attend.
And 2. Racism, or any type of bigotry for that matter, isn't limited to any one group. White, Black, Religious, Atheist, Northern, or Southern. A!&@%$&s exist everywhere, and they have the right to be like they are... they just better not spout that bile around me, I don't put up with it.
Y'all have fun now.
I don't care about all of that.
But one word about drow, then I'm getting out my pair of katanas.
Ouch buddy. :/Why do you want to ruin the fun Derek? It's so much more awesome to label all Christians as hateful intolerant jerks.When situations like this arise, it's hard not to. Maybe too hard.
Worry not. I'm not going to go out cracking christian heads or anything like that; I'd have to start with my own after all. It's just that when someone is already distrustful of a group or organization and situations come out that throw gasoline on that fire, it gets hard to think rationally. It's not just with Christianity, it's everywhere in life. I do think we have an obligation to remember that no matter how tempting the impetus, not everyone within a group that one already has issues with is as horrible as a media outlet would have us believe, but sometimes the temptation is just too great and we give in to/feed the flame of stereotypes.
The last two things I'll say here.
1. The folks at that church who are in support of the new rule against interracial couples are not Christians by any definition I hold, I don't give a damn what church they attend.
And 2. Racism, or any type of bigotry for that matter, isn't limited to any one group. White, Black, Religious, Atheist, Northern, or Southern. A!&@%$&s exist everywhere, and they have the right to be like they are... they just better not spout that bile around me, I don't put up with it.
Y'all have fun now.
I don't care about all of that.
But one word about drow, then I'm getting out my pair of katanas.
Scimitars. DUH. (Stupid ass drow.)
Worry not. I'm not going to go out cracking christian heads or anything like that; I'd have to start with my own after all. It's just that when someone is already distrustful of a group or organization and situations come out that throw gasoline on that fire, it gets hard to think rationally. It's not just with Christianity, it's everywhere in life. I do think we have an obligation to remember that no matter how tempting the impetus, not everyone within a maligned group is as horrible as a media outlet would have us believe, but sometimes the temptation is just too great and we give in to stereotypes.Ouch buddy. :/Why do you want to ruin the fun Derek? It's so much more awesome to label all Christians as hateful intolerant jerks.When situations like this arise, it's hard not to. Maybe too hard.
I'm not tempted to malign pederasts. I'll generalize them.
Scimitars. DUH. (Stupid ass drow.)
I don't care about all of that.But one word about drow, then I'm getting out my pair of katanas.
That's it. I keel you.
It isn't that uncommmon here. I think maybe its a requirement to make good whiskey.How can Kentucky produce such great whiskey and such terrible people at the same time?
I thought that's what Tennessee was for.
I thought that's what Tennessee was for.It isn't that uncommmon here. I think maybe its a requirement to make good whiskey.How can Kentucky produce such great whiskey and such terrible people at the same time?
I know some good people down there.
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You may have a point Urizen.
Still like others I have seen racism everywhere. Living here though it does seem pretty bad. Though it is probably just the general area. Other parts of KY I have lived in here better than it is here.
Then again I remember stopping for gas once in Chicago and was unnerved because after I went into the gas station and paid I was followed to the car by 3 or 4 guys. Admittedly I was one white guy in a seemingly black neighborhoold but it was just kinda creepy.
Same thing happened in California I was driving up to Sacramento from LA and passed through a small town and seemingly the entire town stopped what they were doing and watched me drive down the road stop and get gas and leave.
Maybe none of this was seen the same way by the other people and it was all in my head. It wouldn't be the first time something felt off and I was the only one to blame.
Now for a glass of that whiskey.
I'm generalizing being racists towards jerks now.
The last two things I'll say here.
1. The folks at that church who are in support of the new rule against interracial couples are not Christians by any definition I hold, I don't give a damn what church they attend.
No, they're Christian all right. Plenty of racists Christians around now and throughout history. You don't get to define all the people you don't like out of your group any more than the creationist homophobic Christians get to define away the liberal scientist Christians. No True Scotsman!
And 2. Racism, or any type of bigotry for that matter, isn't limited to any one group. White, Black, Religious, Atheist, Northern, or Southern. A%!!!*~s exist everywhere, and they have the right to be like they are... they just better not spout that bile around me, I don't put up with it.I appreciate the sentiment, but it's still false equivalency. Would you claim the slave who hated whites as just as bigoted as the master who enslaved blacks? Who has the power makes a difference.
The continuing effects of racism are well-documented. Blacks are arrested, convicted and imprisoned at higher rates than whites for the same crimes. That's a large part of why a far higher percentage of the black male population is in prison. The simplest, most trivial example would be Driving While Black, but the pattern goes from there up to death penalty cases.
Re: 1- I hate to say it, but it's true. Christianity in America specifically- especially somewhat remote areas- often has issues with racism. I've lived it. But I know it's not as simple as Christian = Racist. I've seen people in the church fight astonishingly hard to keep bigotry out of their faith, and not just to boot out racists, but to actually change their mind.
Re: 2- I don't think it's a false equivalency, but it's true that hate breeds hate. I've never been pulled over for driving while black(although I was pulled over the first day I got my license in what was a hilarious story).
I'm calling out Antony Flew. Why did he have to pick on Scots? What did they do to earn his ire to find a place in a illogical fallacy discussion? Just because he's from the lower half of the isle doesn't give him the right.
Bollòcks!
Re: 1- I hate to say it, but it's true. Christianity in America specifically- especially somewhat remote areas- often has issues with racism. I've lived it. But I know it's not as simple as Christian = Racist. I've seen people in the church fight astonishingly hard to keep bigotry out of their faith, and not just to boot out racists, but to actually change their mind.I wouldn't go as far as to link Christianity and racism directly, even in the US. There are far to many Christian churches opposing racism to do so. Not to mention the long history of black churches.
Maybe, religion tends to be conservative, in the sense that it's values change more slowly than society around it. So it's easier for racist culture to be preserved from the days when it was more acceptable. Which wasn't really that long ago, if the leaders of that Church are fairly old, they could easily have been raised when interracial marriage was still illegal in many places.
This is perhaps the best explanation I've run into.
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In my more cynical moods, religion is also a great tool for manipulating the ignorant or gullible. Racism is a good way to divide people. Keep them hating and they don't see how they're really being screwed.
So is politics.
So is media.
So is edition wars.
So is George Lucas' constant Star Wars revisionism.
Conversely, you miss the point of what he's saying. "Any man who would say such a thing is no countryman of mine!" does not mean that the person isn't from the same country, it just means he refuses to be associated with such a person.
And that's fine, but that doesn't change that they are representatives of Christianity. They're Christians. They get to decide that.
Other people don't get to decide they're NOT.
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And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.
Ummmm ... while Kentucky is below the MD line, you do realize Kentucky was initially neutral and in 1861 became a Union state, right? ;)
I've lived my entire life in NC and can honestly say that I have encountered more blatant racists when I have been "up North" (read IL, NJ, NY, MA) than I have ever encountered in any part of NC.
And southerners wonder why the south has the reputation it does.Ummmm ... while Kentucky is below the MD line, you do realize Kentucky was initially neutral and in 1861 became a Union state, right? ;)
Do realize that the Mason Dixon line was for the southern border of Pennsylvania. As such it has nothing to do with Kentucky (which would have been 'below' it anyways).
Personally I simply call them Traitor flags -- and no, I don't care if your great grand-daddy did or did not fight for them. They were the very definition of sedition, and they betrayed the Union.
That's true, but that doesn't mean Kentucky hasn't bought into the southern mythology.
I laugh every time I'm in West Virginia and see people with Confederate Flags, but I don't do it openly. Don't they know the reason there is a West Virginia is because it split from Virginia to stay with the Union?
West Virginia has some serious identity issues as it is.
Just another example of how people can twist their theology in a knot so it matches their preconceptions.This isn't theology at all. It's pretty much just: "We're racists. We don't like hanging around people who aren't.
Well, the fact that one gets wrapped around the other means that "theology" and "Racism" are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of passages in the bible that COULD be interpreted this way without even trying too hard: Not to wear cloths of mixed weave
In short, i don't think there's THAT much difference between "I believe in X" and theology.
9“You must not plant any other crop between the rows of your vineyard. If you do, you are forbidden to use either the grapes from the vineyard or the other crop.
10“You must not plow with an ox and a donkey harnessed together.
11“You must not wear clothing made of wool and linen woven together.
Racial purity was a big thing in the old testament.
Exodus stuff
Personally I simply call them Traitor flags -- and no, I don't care if your great grand-daddy did or did not fight for them. They were the very definition of sedition, and they betrayed the Union.
That's no way to talk about the real america! [tm]