I just gained two levels. I'm an 11th level sorcerer now, so i get to pick 2.
I'm thinking telekinesis would be good, but i'm not sure how limited it is or not.
I'm trying to decide whether or not to get this spell.
Can I drop big objects on people? How do I know if i hit them? How is damage determined?
If you want to kill a wizard, do you just pick him up by his cloak/pants and then drop him? (gets a will save i guess?)
i guess i could move allies around on the battlefield? but is it one use per move?
what's the difference between using "sustained force" to take a sword from someone or "combat maneuver" to take a sword away from someone? do you just choose whichever suits you best in the moment?
what's better? wall of stone or wall of force?
can you make a cube with wall of force? could i cast cloudkill into it for a little death chamber action?
also, is it just me or is stone shape just as good as wall of stone? seems like the stone from stone shape would be thicker too???
feeblemind seems like a good choice too
-Chris
also, can i just make a big stone ball with WOS and then just roll it over multiple people with telekinesis?
i dont really have the time to post my build right now, but can you explain how magic jar is good?
Fifth level spells I like for a sorcerer:
Summon monster 5
Teleport (D.Door is nice. Sometimes you simply need a better spell though -- verbal only and 1k miles tavelled minimum for a sorcerer -- that's world wound to Taldor in one spell)
Echolocation (blindsight 40 feet for 10 min/level is simply useful)
Baleful Polymorph (permanent effect on any creature which is nice, possibly doubly so if they lose their mind)
Polymorph (multiple options on form)
Waves of Fatigue (prevents charging and gives a -2 to strength and dexterity sets them up for exhaustion with other spells later no save)
Overland Flight, at least until you get an item to do the same thing. But all day flight has some DEFINITE uses.
Prying Eyes is also pretty awesome, but depends highly on campaign and DM style.
I'll definitely echo Abe on the SMV. Fifth level summons are versatile, it's a good level to have even if you're not particularly into summoning. Especially for a sorcerer though, having access to other spells through summons' SlA's is a great way to broaden your horizons.A Bralani Azata, for example, can cure serious 2/day (~20pts healed per casting) or wind wall if you're pinned down by archers, or gust of wind if an enemy caster has thrown down some fog.
bump
Overland Flight only works for yourself, the spell has a very limited use then.
Teleport is good but you should focus on spells that will really improve your party power. The spell only helps you to travel faster so keep it for later. For emergency retreat, Dim Door is enough.
Polymorph is less powerful than in 3rd edition, but still polyvalent.
With Hold Monster, the melee guys (fighter & rogue) will be your best friends for life (well if your campaign does not focus heavily on undead).
Prying Eyes is really good : prevents ambush, helps for dungeon exploration, follow suspects in investigation. Not the first spell to learn but it's a must-have.
Wall of Force is a good control spell.
Magic Jar is interesting but always hard to use in fight.
Summon Monster V can be good but it's really useful only if you have the Augment Summoning feat (if you summon to get fighting power) or if your party has a serious deficit in spellcasting ability.
Telekinesis is a very polyvalent spell.
Teleport is good but you should focus on spells that will really improve your party power. The spell only helps you to travel faster so keep it for later. For emergency retreat, Dim Door is enough.
Teleport has immense party use as long as any form of logistics take place. Especially with sorcerer who can cast it 4 or more times a day. With each casting he can take 3 Medium sized creatures with him (4 on level 12) allowing the whole regular-sized party travel 1000+ miles in one day and in two or three days it can travel that distance with their horses and other baggage.
Of course it may be of much less use if campaign does not involve lots of travel or party is unwilling to risk mishap. Returning to home base that is very familiar for the caster becomes a piece of cake.
How often does your party need to travel 1000+ miles in a module in one day ?
How does traveling so fast (or returning to your base) make your party stronger ?
Dim Door already does an excellent job for short distance jumps (to avoid some dangers or reach an area difficult to access, to escape an incoming danger or to go into melee directly with the BBEG by bypassing his minions). Teleport is nice but less necessary.
Transmute Rock to Mud: Let them Sink
Transmute Mud to Rock: Trap them
Communal Stoneskin can be nice if you know you have a big fight ahead of you.
Wall of Sound is nice when those pesky fire immune creatures show up(they aren't rare).
How often does your party need to travel 1000+ miles in a module in one day ?
How does traveling so fast (or returning to your base) make your party stronger ?
Dim Door already does an excellent job for short distance jumps (to avoid some dangers or reach an area difficult to access, to escape an incoming danger or to go into melee directly with the BBEG by bypassing his minions). Teleport is nice but less necessary.
Teleport back to city to sell the loot! So nice to do mid adventure. Also for a safe place to rest.
Teleport is awesome. But you only need one person with it.
Another reason to take teleport over D.Door is the fact there are many more 4th level spells I would like to have known over all than fifth level spells. By taking teleport at fifth level I can change out D.Door for a different spell I want to use more often, especially since I'm likely to have more 4th level spell slots to use.
When planning contingency spells like D.Door or Teleport you want to be sure it's not at a spell level you are likely to use immediately and often. Third and fourth level spells have a lot of 'meat' to them and are likely to be regularly used up through 12th~14th level. At level 10 your fifth level spells are going to be more limited in number of uses and means of usage. As such they make a better place to 'park' a spell like teleport than lower spell levels.
DDoor is short distance without a miss chance. Teleport is long distance with a miss chance. be wary.
How often does your party need to travel 1000+ miles in a module in one day ?
In what?
Travelling 1000+ miles haven't happened yet. It's 50-200 miles currently as the campaign is based upon a region 300-miles long (or something about that, I would have to check maps).
How does traveling so fast (or returning to your base) make your party stronger ?
It grants superior access to resources, information, equipment and services when required.
Every party I played with to the date greatly appreciated ability to shorten travels, to pick up things quickly when we learned that we need something we hadn't with us. Once the party sorcerer of wizard reached access to 5th level spells teleport was the most often used spell if we could get our hands on it and there weren't interferences with teleportation magic (like 3/4 of previous D&D campaign - still we risked teleport just to reach one of the artifacts before evil party, with moderately positive results). Wall of force and sending were closed second and third.
Dim Door already does an excellent job for short distance jumps (to avoid some dangers or reach an area difficult to access, to escape an incoming danger or to go into melee directly with the BBEG by bypassing his minions). Teleport is nice but less necessary.
I beg to differ. Dimension door short range makes it much less useful outside of combat or small scale exploration than teleport. It is mostly the matter of type and scale of campaigns played that favors one over the other, however.
Another reason to take teleport over D.Door is the fact there are many more 4th level spells I would like to have known over all than fifth level spells.
Really? Which spells in particular do you like? I'm going to be hitting 11th level on my sorcerer soon so will have 1 or 2 new 4th level spells to learn, and nothing pops out at me as a must-have. I've always felt that the 4th level arcane spells were among the weakest, respectively.
Another reason to take teleport over D.Door is the fact there are many more 4th level spells I would like to have known over all than fifth level spells.Really? Which spells in particular do you like? I'm going to be hitting 11th level on my sorcerer soon so will have 1 or 2 new 4th level spells to learn, and nothing pops out at me as a must-have. I've always felt that the 4th level arcane spells were among the weakest, respectively.
Well:
Emergency Force Shelter (if available)D. Anchor
Greater Infernal Healing (if available)
Touch of Slime
Calcific Touch
Detect Scrying
Crushing Despair
Dragon's Breath (one of the only blasting spells I really like)
Resilient Sphere (if EFS isn't available, and sometimes even if it is)
Enervation
Bestow Curse
Those are just the first ones, many others hit my "like to have but am not taking" list.
if your DC is high, feeblemind is nice or shadow conjuration.
major creation / fabricate if you got a good imagination (and a gullible GM) watch out for casting time and skill requirement.
someone mentioned baleful polymorph but it's a lot worse than in 3.5, because now it's permanent and thus can be dispelled.
overland flight if you got enough combat action and no flying items
magic jar is powerful in the right hands, I wouldn't recommend it tough as it's complicated and possibly too good.
Amazing 4th level spells:
Confusion
SM IV
Black Tentacles
Arcane Eye
Ice Storm
Resilient Sphere
Wall of Ice
Rainbow Pattern
I'm not too fond of black tentacles because of the amount of flying around and the fact that that it isn't selective (meaning it's a problem for your allies as well as your enemies).
Arcane Eye isn't bad... but in my opinion it's a spell that doesn't work as advertised. It isn't invisible, it can't open doors, and it must return in order to give any data, as well as being incredible vulnerable to GM Fiat.
Rainbow Pattern I don't like due to its concentration duration, mind affecting status, hard capped HD limit, dependence on sight, save and SR, and the very limited effects of the fascinated condition itself.
Other than that I like meatrace's list.
I'm not too fond of black tentacles because of the amount of flying around and the fact that that it isn't selective (meaning it's a problem for your allies as well as your enemies).
Arcane Eye isn't bad... but in my opinion it's a spell that doesn't work as advertised. It isn't invisible, it can't open doors, and it must return in order to give any data, as well as being incredible vulnerable to GM Fiat.
Rainbow Pattern I don't like due to its concentration duration, mind affecting status, hard capped HD limit, dependence on sight, save and SR, and the very limited effects of the fascinated condition itself.
Other than that I like meatrace's list.
1)Tentacles is the best opener for its level. I know it can muck with group synergy, but think of it this way. Cast it on a group of enemies. SOME of them won't be grappled, and some will. Your allies beat down the ones that the spell fails to grapple. Crowd control. No need to fight everything at once. Unless your whole party is flying all day every day it's a great spell. Now it may not be great for the poster's needs, since he's level 11, but it's great at the level you can first get it.
2)Every spell is vulnerable to DM fiat. I just had a DM say that a charmed monster will still attack the caster's allies with prejudice because it only prevents the caster from being attacked and it will never attack its former allies. Guts the spell, really. Personally I'm a much bigger fan of Prying Eyes, but Arcane Eye has its uses. Again, maybe not the best for the poster, but still a pretty solid spell for 4th level.
3)It looks like it has a lot of mitigating factors, but it's still incredibly useful. It's concentration + 1 round per level, to start with, so you can set it and forget it during combat. Again, it's like a sieve to randomly crowd control a bunch of creatures. Or one creature up to 24 HD, which is a good deal of creatures through to higher levels. I've seen it used to amazing effect time and time again, but that might just be anecdotal.
Yeah they have some great uses -- it's just so situational.
The one I would come the closest to agreeing on is tentacles, but even then it really depends on if you can reach the creatures that are grappled.
A battle field control spell that requires individual buffs (freedom of movement or large size + reach etc) of the same (general) level or higher for everyone in the party isn't one I would want to have as a go to spell in a lot of cases.
For a wizard I would recommend them a lot faster -- it's just the fact we are talking sorcerer here that reduces their value for me.
Yeah they have some great uses -- it's just so situational.
The one I would come the closest to agreeing on is tentacles, but even then it really depends on if you can reach the creatures that are grappled.
A battle field control spell that requires individual buffs (freedom of movement or large size + reach etc) of the same (general) level or higher for everyone in the party isn't one I would want to have as a go to spell in a lot of cases.
For a wizard I would recommend them a lot faster -- it's just the fact we are talking sorcerer here that reduces their value for me.
So here's my question, why do you insist on being able to attack the grappled enemies WHILE they are grappled? Why can't you deal with the ones that fail to be grappled, then wait with readied actions for when the spell ends? Or pull out a bow and take a few rounds of free shots?
Patience, Abraham, patience! :)
Yeah they have some great uses -- it's just so situational.
The one I would come the closest to agreeing on is tentacles, but even then it really depends on if you can reach the creatures that are grappled.
A battle field control spell that requires individual buffs (freedom of movement or large size + reach etc) of the same (general) level or higher for everyone in the party isn't one I would want to have as a go to spell in a lot of cases.
For a wizard I would recommend them a lot faster -- it's just the fact we are talking sorcerer here that reduces their value for me.
So here's my question, why do you insist on being able to attack the grappled enemies WHILE they are grappled? Why can't you deal with the ones that fail to be grappled, then wait with readied actions for when the spell ends? Or pull out a bow and take a few rounds of free shots?
Patience, Abraham, patience! :)
Me I don't mind. The two handed fighter however? Yeah he rolls his eyes and gets annoyed. The cleric that wanted to cross that space to heal the character on the other side of the tentacles? Yeah he's not happy. Anyone in the party caught in the mess? Doubly so.
It isn't about me -- it's about all the party members getting annoyed because my need to throw out a spell has caused all of them annoyance. There are better battlefield control spells than this.
Me I don't mind. The two handed fighter however? Yeah he rolls his eyes and gets annoyed. The cleric that wanted to cross that space to heal the character on the other side of the tentacles? Yeah he's not happy. Anyone in the party caught in the mess? Doubly so.It isn't about me -- it's about all the party members getting annoyed because my need to throw out a spell has caused all of them annoyance. There are better battlefield control spells than this.
Well, tell your party to shut up and enjoy the cake walk?
Again they probably have some enemies to take care of. Why is there someone else on the other side of the enemies that isn't dead? I'm talking about battlefield control, as in first round. If your party is so spread out that a mob of 4-8 monsters get between any two members before you take notice, there's some serious issues.As for better battlefield control, what?
Me I don't mind. The two handed fighter however? Yeah he rolls his eyes and gets annoyed. The cleric that wanted to cross that space to heal the character on the other side of the tentacles? Yeah he's not happy. Anyone in the party caught in the mess? Doubly so.It isn't about me -- it's about all the party members getting annoyed because my need to throw out a spell has caused all of them annoyance. There are better battlefield control spells than this.
Well, tell your party to shut up and enjoy the cake walk?
Again they probably have some enemies to take care of. Why is there someone else on the other side of the enemies that isn't dead? I'm talking about battlefield control, as in first round. If your party is so spread out that a mob of 4-8 monsters get between any two members before you take notice, there's some serious issues.
As for better battlefield control, what?
The problem with tentacles is the size of the spread more than anything.
Now it isn't as bad as it was in 3.5 however when it was a 20 foot spread of tentacles that also had a 10 foot reach giving it a total area of 40 feet across (which I'll be honest was what I was remembering when I started commenting on tentacles specifically as a spell). However I tend to like walls a bit better, as well as resilient sphere and swarms.
