Working on a backup character since it is not looking like I will live very long.
I am especially tired of failing saves. I also still want our group to have an arcane caster. So I am planning on pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x. This will give me great saves, quite a few additional hit points, some healing, and martial weapon prof so I can use a bow when I don’t have any useful spells avail.
So what I am looking for is help to make as good a battlefield control caster as possible given (although I might consider buffing since our cleric rarely buffs anyone else):
LG pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x / plan to use a bow when no decent spell avail.
Point buy 25
Race: not set but thinking either human, elf, or gnome.
Starting at 3rd level with campaign probably going to about 15th level.
What ability scores, race, feats, and spell choice to you recommend?
Edit: Forgot some info.
Currently in Carrion Crown 1st adventure.
Other is group are has drow cleric lv 3 (melee, turning, and healer), dwarf paladin level 4 (sword and board melee), and dwarf rogue/soulblade level 1/3 (skills and flank stab).
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If you're looking to take a 2 level dip for a primary sorceror you're for pure defense your looking at it wrong. Primary casters like sorcerors and wizards need to maintain as many levels in their primary class as possible. Looking at your first post I think your real concern is planing your spell selections each day. This can be an even greater problem as a sorceror if your not careful, as by in large you are stuck with what you choose. A few guidelines on spell selection might be helpful. First, always have at least 1 offensive spell that does damage per spell level, be it as a sorceror or wizard. 2nd, look hard at the value of saving throws & whether a spell allows spell resistance. 3rd, you can never ever ever go wrong with a party buff spell, but you can go horribly wrong with a badly place battlefield control spell. If your unsure what to have on hand to use in a given situation, go with the buff spell. Finally, if your going to level dip, have a plan to recover caster level. You won't recover spell level, but caster level enhances the potency of your spells, allowing better milage out of your lower level spell selection. Ofcourse, magical knack helps with this, but I recently learned of 2 feats that really assist in this as well, Varisan Tattoo and Bloatmage Initiate. These 2 feats actually boost your caster level above your character level in the school you choose, provided you have the appropriate spell focus. Finally, if you really feel the need to dip, take a level in oracle of lore and take the revelation side step secret. It will replace your dex for AC and Reflex saves. That will reduce some of the MAD of your sorceror's survival. Also, focus on your con and HP levels over AC. You're NEVER going to have a fighter's AC. Your goal should be to survive the hit, whatever it is, and then counter for the kill. High Con, toughness and favored class bonuses can rack up impression HP in no time.
Working on a backup character since it is not looking like I will live very long.
** spoiler omitted **
I am especially tired of failing saves. I also still want our group to have an arcane caster. So I am planning on pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x. This will give me great saves, quite a few additional hit points, some healing, and martial weapon prof so I can use a bow when I don’t have any useful spells avail.
So what I am looking for is help to make as good a battlefield control caster as possible given (although I might consider buffing since our cleric rarely buffs anyone else):
LG pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x / plan to use a bow when no decent spell avail.
Point buy 25
Race: not set but thinking either human, elf, or gnome.
Starting at 3rd level with campaign probably going to about 15th level.
What ability scores, race, feats, and spell choice to you recommend?Edit: Forgot some info.
Currently in Carrion Crown 1st adventure.
Other is group are has drow cleric lv 3 (melee, turning, and healer), dwarf paladin level 4 (sword and board melee), and dwarf rogue/soulblade level 1/3 (skills and flank stab).
You could go for empyreal sorcerer with two levels of monk. Then add great fortitude as a feat. Don't dump CON and you should be fine because
- fortitude was boosted- you got evasion for reflex saves
- your will is high already and will continue to increase since WIS will be your high stat.
Just to add another few thoughts:
- Bards are arcanists, they got two good saves plus the saving finale spells. You only need to shore up that fortitude save this way.
- The monk/sorcerer combination above works especially well with the zen archer archetype (precise shot for free!). You could even go with dwarf this way to get boosts to both con and wis
You want bonuses to saves and AC, I can give you bonuses to Saves and AC.
Race: Gnome (+2 Cha & Con, -2 Str, +1 AC size)
Racial Trait - Eternal Hope (reroll natural 1 once per day, +2 vs. fear/despair)
Traits: There are multiple traits that can get you a +1 to a save.
Level 1: Oracle - Lore. Revelation - Sidestep Secret (Cha replaces Dex for Reflex save AND Dex Modifier). 1st level feat - Stoic (Requires 15 Cha and Sodden Lands affiliation, but you use Cha for Fortitude saves and gain +2 versus fear).
Level 2: Sorcerer - Celestial
Level 3: Feat - Toughness
Result: Cha to Fort, Reflex, CMD, Dex, +4 v. Fear/Despair.
Note: If your DM won't allow Stoic (I think it was a Paizo 3.5 feat) then consider Great Fortitude, Fort and Will saves are for more important since they tend to be the Save or Die.
If you're looking to take a 2 level dip for a primary sorceror you're for pure defense your looking at it wrong. Primary casters like sorcerors and wizards need to maintain as many levels in their primary class as possible. Looking at your first post I think your real concern is planing your spell selections each day. This can be an even greater problem as a sorceror if your not careful, as by in large you are stuck with what you choose. A few guidelines on spell selection might be helpful. First, always have at least 1 offensive spell that does damage per spell level, be it as a sorceror or wizard. 2nd, look hard at the value of saving throws & whether a spell allows spell resistance. 3rd, you can never ever ever go wrong with a party buff spell, but you can go horribly wrong with a badly place battlefield control spell. If your unsure what to have on hand to use in a given situation, go with the buff spell. Finally, if your going to level dip, have a plan to recover caster level. You won't recover spell level, but caster level enhances the potency of your spells, allowing better milage out of your lower level spell selection. Ofcourse, magical knack helps with this, but I recently learned of 2 feats that really assist in this as well, Varisan Tattoo and Bloatmage Initiate. These 2 feats actually boost your caster level above your character level in the school you choose, provided you have the appropriate spell focus. Finally, if you really feel the need to dip, take a level in oracle of lore and take the revelation side step secret. It will replace your dex for AC and Reflex saves. That will reduce some of the MAD of your sorceror's survival. Also, focus on your con and HP levels over AC. You're NEVER going to have a fighter's AC. Your goal should be to survive the hit, whatever it is, and then counter for the kill. High Con, toughness and favored class bonuses can rack up impression HP in no time.
Great Minds.
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Multiclassing is going to kill your character before you even start playing. For example with 2 levels of paladin you will not have level 3 spell until level 8. This alone will cause you to be much less effective.
Allot of the guides to X. Have one over all problem in my experience. They lack allot of understanding of how higher level game play works. There set up at low level to mid level (1-10) might work. There idea of how high level play works is wrong.
I know form playing high level casters the only thing more important then your Casting stat is Con. You will get in bad spots. You will get cast at. You will get hit. There is no way to prevent all damage from hitting you. You can use 1/2 of you spells per day buffing. But then your not really being an effective caster. Any time you need to buff with more then 1 or 2 spells normally. Means you made the character wrong.
25 point buy
Dwarf Witch, or Wizards (Witch is better IMO.)
Str 10
Dex 10
Con 18
Int 18 (all level up points here.)
Wis 10
Cha 8
Feet: Toughness
HP: 14 (Max first level+Con Mod+Favord Class+Toughness)
* You could also consider a monk/sorc (celestial-wild blood empyreal)
1 lvl of monk gives +2 on your saves, some decent skills and wis bonus on ac, empyreal bloodline allows you to use wisdom based casting instead of charisma which is good for both AC, will saves and perception checks to avoid being surprised, another level is pssible to get evasion and another monk bonus feat.
Sohei archetype allows you to always act in the surprise round even if perception fails and gives you handle animal which might be useful to direct summons. You also get martial weapon proficiency, just incase you want to go eldritch knight later. A guided weapon allows you to use wisdom for attack rolls.
Sensei gives you diplomacy and all knowledge skills and inspire courage as a bard of 1st lvl using wisdom for the number of rounds/day, another level will not give you evasion or a bonus feat but allows you to use wisdom for attack rolls on unarmed strikes or monk weapons, ofcourse a guided weapon can do that for you as well.
* for paladin
divine hunter archetype trades heavy armor for precise shot, which seems a good trade if you want to cast arcane spells, useful for rays and bow attacks.
Working on a backup character since it is not looking like I will live very long.
** spoiler omitted **
I am especially tired of failing saves. I also still want our group to have an arcane caster. So I am planning on pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x. This will give me great saves, quite a few additional hit points, some healing, and martial weapon prof so I can use a bow when I don’t have any useful spells avail.
So what I am looking for is help to make as good a battlefield control caster as possible given (although I might consider buffing since our cleric rarely buffs anyone else):
LG pal 2 / sorc (celestial) x / plan to use a bow when no decent spell avail.
Point buy 25
Race: not set but thinking either human, elf, or gnome.
Starting at 3rd level with campaign probably going to about 15th level.
What ability scores, race, feats, and spell choice to you recommend?Edit: Forgot some info.
Currently in Carrion Crown 1st adventure.
Other is group are has drow cleric lv 3 (melee, turning, and healer), dwarf paladin level 4 (sword and board melee), and dwarf rogue/soulblade level 1/3 (skills and flank stab).
2 Things....
1. Your playing the very beginning of Carrion Crown. Your 3rd level. And your a squishy. You have a limited amount of spell slots. And whats available isn't that amazing. And Carrion Crown can be quite brutal at the beginning. I know when we started it my group got its but handed to it on the regular and we where OP optimized. The DM ran the module straight up with no modifications too. It gets better.
That is normal for a 3rd level caster. A Wizard is weak beginning catches up around 10th level and then will slowly pass most of the other classes. Its the nature of the beast. If your not willing to wait that long then that brings me to point number 2.
2. If you want a buffing Battle Field controller that is easy. Let me introduce you to the Summoner.
A. He has a great list of buff spells.
B. He has a D8 Hit points
C. He can wear light armor and still cast (Your Paly/sorc cant)
D. He has cleric BAB so he can actually hit things with his bow
E. You wont need to use a bow. See F. and G.
F. He has a fighter as a companion that will keep you from taking hits.
G. You have the best CC in the game as a Spell like 3 + Cha times a day.
Honestly you will have zero issues fulfilling a roll as a buffer and CC while staying up. Summoners are very hardy. Your party will appreciate the extra HP soaks and your DM will tear his hair out. Take a close look at the arch types and decide on what you want to consentrate on and you should be good to go.
Honestly the Paly/Sorc is a trap.
You fall so far behind on spell progression that your spells wont really be effective as CC and the added buff Paly gives wont last very long. Thats just my 2 cents. But there is a reason its considered RPG suicide to multi-class as a caster.
I just thought I give you a quick build:
SAVE GUY CR 3
Male Dwarf Monk (Zen Archer) 2 Sorcerer (Wildblooded) 2
LN Medium Humanoid (Dwarf)
Init +6; Senses Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +10
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DEFENSE
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AC 16, touch 16, flat-footed 14 (+2 Dex)
hp 33 (2d8+2d6+12)
Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +11
Defensive Abilities Defensive Training
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OFFENSE
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Spd 20 ft.
Melee Unarmed Strike +4 (1d6+2/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +2) +6 (1d8+3/20/x3)
Special Attacks Flurry of Blows +0/+0, Heavenly Fire (2/day)
Sorcerer (Wildblooded) Spells Known (CL 4, +4 melee touch, +4 ranged touch):
1 (5/day) Shield (DC 15), Mage Armor (DC 15)
0 (at will) Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 14), Read Magic (DC 14), Detect Magic, Ray of Frost
--------------------
STATISTICS
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Str 14, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 10, Wis 19, Cha 8
Base Atk +2; CMB +4; CMD 20
Feats Eschew Materials, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Improved Unarmed Strike, Monk Weapon Proficiencies, Perfect Strike (2d20) (2/day), Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus: Longbow
Traits Deft Dodger, Magical Knack: Sorcerer (Wildblooded)
Skills Escape Artist +6, Heal +10, Knowledge (Arcana) +7, Perception +10, Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +7
Languages Common, Dwarven
SQ AC Bonus +4, Empyreal, Greed, Hardy +2, Hatred, Slow and Steady, Stability, Stonecunning +2, Unarmed Strike (1d6)
Combat Gear +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +2); Other Gear Cloak of Resistance, +1, Handy Haversack (empty)
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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AC Bonus +4 The Monk adds his Wisdom bonus to AC and CMD, more at higher levels.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defensive Training (+4) +4 dodge bonus to AC against monsters of the Giant subtype.
Empyreal Your heavenly power derives from insight rather than force of personality.
Associated Bloodline: Celestial.
Bloodline Arcana: Unlike most sorcerers whose innate magic is powered by force of personality, you use pure willpower to m
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Flurry of Blows +0/+0 (Ex) Make Flurry of Blows attack as a full action.
Greed +2 to Appraise checks to determine the price of nonmagical goods that contain precious metals or gemstones.
Hardy +2 Gain a racial bonus to saves vs Poison, Spells and Spell-Like effects.
Hatred +1 racial bonus to attacks against Orcs and Goblinoids.
Heavenly Fire (2/day) (Su) Ranged touch attack deals 1d4 divine damage/healing
Improved Unarmed Strike Unarmed strikes don't cause attacks of opportunity, and can be lethal.
Magical Knack: Sorcerer (Wildblooded) +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Perfect Strike (2d20) (2/day) Roll 2d20 for an attack with a Monk weapon and use the higher as your attack roll, the next as your critical confirmation.
Point Blank Shot +1 to attack and damage rolls with ranged weapons at up to 30 feet.
Precise Shot You don't get -4 to hit when shooting or throwing into combat.
Slow and Steady Your base speed is never modified by encumbrance.
Stability +4 to avoid being bull rushed or tripped while standing.
Stonecunning +2 +2 bonus to Perception vs unusual stonework. Free check within 10 feet.
Unarmed Strike (1d6) The Monk does lethal damage with his unarmed strikes.
With shield and mage armor this guy gets an AC of 24, and his saves are even higher against anything that is enchantment. Reflex saves are high enough that they should be managed as well, and when evasion kicks in you should withstand a lot of trouble.
On the topic of whether it is worth to multiclass or not, I do not agree with the notion that you must avoid dipping with full casters. It always depends on what you want to do. I have played casters that were 3 levels below comparable wizards and I was fine. I chose features that augmented my abilities and strengthened me in other ways.
Actually I have had the same experience that pure casters can be really squishy depending on DM style and luck of dice, so I can feel with you :-)
A simple survivable build for a wizard should look something like this:
Human/Half Orc/Half Elf (depending on preference), or Elf if you can manage it, since it nets you +2 dex (you can swap dex and con for the same results below) +2 spell pen +2 perception and bow proficiency.
[Pre racial adjustments)
Str:7 (-4)
Dex:16(10)
Con:14( 5)
Int:18(17)
Wis:12( 2)
Cha:7 (-4)
Alternatively you can drop the Int down to a 16 and bump Cha and Str to an 8 and 10.
Take Conjuration Focus [Teleport], or Divination Focus [Foresight] as both of these will increase your survival by a large factor. Teleporting as a swiftaction out of melee, or acting first in the surprise round will go a long way to keeping yourself from getting swarmed and killed.
Feats should look like: Improved Initiative, Toughness, Great Fortitude and Will, Augmented Summonings, Acadamae Graduate (lets you summon as a standard action during the first round of combat/surprise round, from Curse of the Crimson Throne Player's Guide), Combat Casting, and anything else you can find that will boost your survival.
Take spells like Grease, Vanish, Web, Glitterdust, Colorspray, Pyrotechnics (use the explosive part, have a phrase you shout to keep your allies from getting blinded), Obscuring Mist, and most of all, summon monster.
As a wizard you shouldn't be blasting all the time and running out of spells. It's your job to control the battlefield and prevent others from getting close to you to knock you out in the first place.
Others like Protection from Alignment help saves and prevent Mind affecting spells. Speaking of, if you get a high dex and imp init/Divination focus, you should be going first every time, which will allow you to possibly charm one of the enemy combatants right off the bat. That being said, try and avoid spells that are save or die. At early levels they're fine, but later on they basically become a wasted turn. Check out Treemonk's guide to Wizards for more pointers.
If you're having trouble surviving against melee and such, try always casting Mage armor right off the bat and keeping a staff in hand to go full defensive should you need it. Remember, positioning is key. If you see a melee guy heading toward you, position yourself with an ally between you two. It gives them an AoO and prevents charges. If you see an enemy spell caster, instead of casting right off the bat, ready an action and pelt them with magic missle/scorching ray when they cast at you. Concentration checks are a lot harder in Pathfinder and at low level they have a pretty good chance of wiffing their spells if hit during the cast.
If you're insistent on playing something other than a wizard, go with the above mentioned Dwarf Sorcerer, though a Halfling Sorc can net a total of +2 AC and +1 to all saves which is nice. Don't worry about the dip into monk/oracle/paladin. Yes having massive saves is awesome, but good planning and positioning can easily make up for those. Sorcerers are especially needing in the full caster level department, as they get their spells a level later and thus can't really afford to much deviation unless you're going a gish type.
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I would actually go Halfling wizard. Yes, your caster stat is not as high, but you get the wizardly advantage of preparing your spells. A halfling diviner who focuses on buffing will probably be able to take care of his party while remaining under the radar (AKA: will not be seen as a threat by most enemies until it's too late).
I've discovered that spell resistance sucks.
My next full caster will be an Elf, with stats like this:
STR: 8 [-2]
DEX: 14 [2]
CON: 12 [5]
INT: 19 [13]
WIS: 12 [2]
CHA: 10
I get a longbow as quickly as I can.
Every stat bump to INT
Traits: Accelerated Drinker (Have your buff potion of choice - for this caster, potions of bear's endurance) in hand to drink in the surprise round, and something else; given your party, probably something giving Diplomacy as a class skill.
Feats:
1st: Toughness
3rd: Spell Penetration
5th: Penetrating Spell (Metamagic)
7th: Greater Spell Penetration
Add +11 to Caster Level for overcoming spell resistance. Graaahr.
If you're looking to take a 2 level dip for a primary sorceror you're for pure defense your looking at it wrong. Primary casters like sorcerors and wizards need to maintain as many levels in their primary class as possible. Looking at your first post I think your real concern is planing your spell selections each day...
It is very likely my spell selection could be better. So it is possible, I could be a bit more effective with my spells. However, that doesn't do me any good dead.
Multiclassing is going to kill your character before you even start playing. For example with 2 levels of paladin you will not have level 3 spell until level 8 ... There set up at low level to mid level (1-10) might work. There idea of how high level play works is wrong...
Right now I have little to no concern about how it will handle at high level because I don't think I can survive until I get there.
2 Things....
1. .. A Wizard is weak beginning catches up around 10th level and then will slowly pass most of the other classes. Its the nature of the beast. If your not willing to wait that long then that brings me to point number 2.
2. If you want a buffing Battle Field controller that is easy. Let me introduce you to the Summoner...
1. ATM I don't expect to survive until he becomes more powerful.
2. Group has decided no summoners. At our level of organization/expertise it just slows the action down too much.To Akeaka and Mergy. My current wiz is very close to your build. A halfling divination (forsight) specialist. Still probably dying.
I am not giving up on my current PC. If I'm wrong and he lives, I will continue to play him. Currently I see very little chance of that happening. The ONLY reason he is still alive is the GM has twice had the monsters suddenly fight stupid just to keep me alive. He and I both find that very unsatisfying. I do not expect him to keep doing that. If I do get killed there is no one that we have found in the area that could raise him and we probably couldn't pay for it if there was.
Just to add another few thoughts:
- Bards are arcanists, they got two good saves plus the saving finale spells. You only need to shore up that fortitude save this way.
- The monk/sorcerer combination above works especially well with the zen archer archetype (precise shot for free!). You could even go with dwarf this way to get boosts to both con and wis
I don't like bards. I guess I just can't rap my head around musical combatants.
I will seriously consider your and Remko's monk/empyreal build.
Pros:
The AC will be better and the evasion would be nice. And the zen archer's perfect strike would make at least a few hits a day very likely even on a tough target.
Cons:
Not quite as much healing, saves aren't as good, no smite.
I will think about it.
And yes I had planned on the magical knack trait to gain back some of the effective caster levels lost.
Just to add another few thoughts:
- Bards are arcanists, they got two good saves plus the saving finale spells. You only need to shore up that fortitude save this way.
- The monk/sorcerer combination above works especially well with the zen archer archetype (precise shot for free!). You could even go with dwarf this way to get boosts to both con and wis
I don't like bards. I guess I just can't rap my head around musical combatants.
I will seriously consider your and Remko's monk/empyreal build.
Pros:
The AC will be better and the evasion would be nice. And the zen archer's perfect strike would make at least a few hits a day very likely even on a tough target.
Cons:
Not quite as much healing, saves aren't as good, no smite.I will think about it.
And yes I had planned on the magical knack trait to gain back some of the effective caster levels lost.
- healing will be good for after combat only really with 1d6 per pop, might as well invest in a cure light wand every once in a while.
- smite evil, while good, only works 1/day and against a single target, benefit of the monk is that it is always on, helping your AC and CDM alot and your perception can be the best in the party.
- healing will be good for after combat only really with 1d6 per pop, might as well invest in a cure light wand every once in a while.- smite evil, while good, only works 1/day and against a single target, benefit of the monk is that it is always on, helping your AC and CDM alot and your perception can be the best in the party.
Currently no place to buy wand and little to buy one with. So far we have already purchased and used most of the the cure potions and salves avail in the town. Hopefully that will change.
Yes smite isn't great, but there is usually only 1 BBEG per day that I would really want to use it on. I didn't think about the perception, that is another good plus.
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Would you please post your current build? I'd like to see how much of this is your build, and how much of it may be bad circumstances, bad luck, or not being supported properly. If your wizard gets caught in melee, that's already a pretty bad sign, as there are supposed to be people protecting your fragile butt.
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Arcane casters are squishy. If you play carefully and intelligently and your party supports and protects you, you should be okay. However, if you are reckless or your party doesn't support you, there is no arcane caster build which will keep you alive.
The first question is whether the issues are due to your play or the rest of the party. If it's you, the situation is hopeless. If it's the party, a beefier build may help, but you also need to talk to the rest of the group and make sure that they have your back.
Would you please post your current build? I'd like to see how much of this is your build, and how much of it may be bad circumstances, bad luck, or not being supported properly. If your wizard gets caught in melee, that's already a pretty bad sign, as there are supposed to be people protecting your fragile butt.
I'll post the current build but that is not what I'm asking about. If he happens to live I will continue to play him.
Halfling, CG, Wiz 3, Divination Forsight Specialist (opp abj & enc)
S 8 D 16 Co 14 I 17 Wis 10 Ch 12, HP's 19
familar weasel
traits focused mind and chance savior
improved initiative, combat casting, augment elemental (extra from 3.5 ebberon gift from GM)
Arcane casters are squishy. If you play carefully and intelligently and your party supports and protects you, you should be okay. However, if you are reckless or your party doesn't support you, there is no arcane caster build which will keep you alive.
The first question is whether the issues are due to your play or the rest of the party. If it's you, the situation is hopeless. If it's the party, a beefier build may help, but you also need to talk to the rest of the group and make sure that they have your back.
We don't work together like the 'well oiled machine' that some people describe. However, we are nowhere near as bad as many groups I have seen.
We have had area effect damage (that is dangerous for me but only annoyance for everyone else). A lot of fort save spells and effects. Creatures with reach or ranged attacks hitting everyone evenly (see above). Incorporeal creatures coming out of the wall at the back of the group. Outnumbered outside or in large rooms so others can't block everyone. When I do get off an effective grease, color spray, command undead; enemies wading past the blockers accepting the AoO and hitting the caster who made himself a threat, taking him down in 1 or 2 hits.|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Co 14 ... HP's 19
How are you guys doing HP? Rolling at each level? And are you putting your favored class bonus each level into HP, skill ranks, or something else?
If you use the "full-half-half" method for HP (as in Society play), and put your FCB into HP, then you'd have 23 HP at level 3:
Lvl 1: 6(hit die) + 2 (Con) + 1 (FCB) = 9
Lvl 2: 4(hit die) + 2 (Con) + 1 (FCB) = 7
Lvl 3: 4(hit die) + 2 (Con) + 1 (FCB) = 7
9 + 7 + 7 = 23
If you just did average HP at each level (instead of full at first), that takes it down to 21.
If you're putting your FCB into skills... well, you probably shouldn't be. ;)
... If you're putting your FCB into skills... well, you probably shouldn't be. ;)
That is what I was doing. Our group is always dearly in need of skill points.
This is a character I put together as my next PFS character, when all of my currents go to 3, 5 and 7.
Notable points:
AC 10. He's going to stay well in back.
HP 11 at 1st level, and +6 per level through 3rd, and +7 per level from 4th on. So at 3rd level, he'd have 23 HPs.
His "keep people from closing" spell is Magic Missile, which, when it tops out at 9th level, will allow him to do a ranged trip attack with a CMB of 9+7=+16 to 5 targets. Of course, by 9th level, not everything will be ground-bound....
Plus, it ignores anything short of full cover.
I plan on investing in a few potions of Expeditious Retreat as well as heal potions, for utilizing the Accelerated Drinker trait.
I pretty much plan on using the "get an extra spell" favored class bonus every level. I plan on picking up Spell Penetration and Greater Spell Penetration at 7th and 9th.
When I do get off an effective grease, color spray, command undead;
Found your first problem. Why are you prepping colour spray for this adventure path? Most of what you're gonna be up against are undead, and thus immune to mind-affecting spells like this one. Offensive spells that can't be used against undead aren't going to be much use during this AP, and if you find you're running out of spells, then leave spells like this one unprepped in favour of spells you can use against undead.
Have an Invisibility spell prepped for when you get into trouble.
Why don't you have any in-game down time to scribe scrolls or trade spells with another wizard? You should have a month of in-game days to work with, and it shouldn't take anywhere near that long to actually do what needs to be done in this part of the AP. Take a day or two off to swap spells with Kendra and make some scrolls. If your party members push you to keep going, remind them that you've got time, and taking a day or two now will help the party out in future encounters.
What loot have you guys found so far? There's one item in particular that will be useful for your character. The wizard in my party had this item, and it (plus smart tactics and a stroke of genius on the part of our wizard) made a big difference in the boss fight.
When I do get off an effective grease, color spray, command undead;Found your first problem. Why are you prepping colour spray for this adventure path? Most of what you're gonna be up against are undead, and thus immune to mind-affecting spells like this one. Offensive spells that can't be used against undead aren't going to be much use during this AP, and if you find you're running out of spells, then leave spells like this one unprepped in favour of spells you can use against undead.
Have an Invisibility spell prepped for when you get into trouble.
Why don't you have any in-game down time to scribe scrolls or trade spells with another wizard? You should have a month of in-game days to work with, and it shouldn't take anywhere near that long to actually do what needs to be done in this part of the AP. Take a day or two off to swap spells with Kendra and make some scrolls. If your party members push you to keep going, remind them that you've got time, and taking a day or two now will help the party out in future encounters.
What loot have you guys found so far? There's one item in particular that will be useful for your character. The wizard in my party had this item, and it (plus smart tactics and a stroke of genius on the part of our wizard) made a big difference in the boss fight.
Color spray is what I had for the wondering monster on the way to town and first 2 days in the town when we thought people would be attacking Kendra to run her out of town. I have not prepared it since. Been using grease, mage armor, and detect undead.
I don't have invisibility. When I advanced to 3rd I took create treasure map (because I needed a divination) and command undead.
Group isn't pushing me for time, the adventure is. Every time we try to take a day to do something, the town gets attacked and a bunch of civ's get killed. Now the whispering way is slowly painting in blood the name of the only good ghost helping us. Info says if they finish they will have command of her. The other ghosts will get stronger and we will have to fight her. ATM we only have 2 or 3 days to finish and there are at least 2 powerful undead left.
We have found several very good weapons. I know have a +2 assassin's dagger that I hope to never use. If there was something particularly good for a wizard, we haven't found it yet.
Have you guys talked to the good ghost, yet? It sounds like there are some very important item you're still missing- namely, the items that
The item you want is
Sounds like your GM's running things pretty hard if people get attacked if you take a day to do stuff.
Depending on how your GM plays him, if you guys don't find the items I'm thinking of, the boss fight (the post powerful of the undead ghosts) could very well be a TPK. When my group fought this guy, the wizard went down a couple times, but was quickly healed back up. Our wizard saved the party's bacon, and turned this fight from a possible TPK to something very winnable- almost even easy.
Have you guys talked to the good ghost, yet? It sounds like there are some very important item you're still missing- namely, the items that ...
We have talked to the good ghost several times. I got the impression we had all the info we could get out of her. But I may be wrong.
I don't like bards. I guess I just can't rap my head around musical combatants.Bards don't have to be musical. Think of movies where a character is always making witty comments. You debuff opponents by belittling them, and buff your party by comments that help them focus on the enemy.
Seconded. No music or singing or such is required :-)
Bards are really cool, and some like the archaelogist only use it "internally", that is don't have an external effect - such as singing :-P
Have you guys talked to the good ghost, yet? It sounds like there are some very important item you're still missing- namely, the items that ...We have talked to the good ghost several times. I got the impression we had all the info we could get out of her. But I may be wrong.
Maybe ask her if she knows about any weaknesses the powerful ghosts have, and if she has any tips on how to defeat them? 'Cause I think she's holding out on you a bit.
... Sounds like your GM's running things pretty hard if people get attacked if you take a day to do stuff...
He says he's just using it as written. {shrug}
...Maybe ask her if she knows about any weaknesses the powerful ghosts have, and if she has any tips on how to defeat them? 'Cause I think she's holding out on you a bit.
Well I know for a fact we asked exactly that question, but I will give it another try next time we see her.
I will start another thread for detailed build of the dwarf monk archer / empyreal sorc.
Does anybody have any helpful advice on the paladin / celestial sorc other than don't do it?
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If your really set on the Paladin/Sorceror build, you'll probably want to look long term and the Eldritch knight. You're going to lose a spell lvl or 2, but for you the extra attack bonus and Hit points will be critical, as with 2 paladin, 1 sorceror your party is going to maintain an expectation of tank support from you well into you 4 or 5th lvl sorceror, and even then with the additional 2 level gap before you see a 3rd level spell they are going to have expectations from the character that you may not be ideally looking to fill. Plus, it will look a little odd for the paladin to suddenly stop wearing armor and sitting in the back of the party. Once you have 3rd level spells, specifically Fireball and Haste, they will start treating you like a primary caster then, however that will be around 8th level, about half way into the 3rd mod, (I'm currently in the same mod @ this point now). I almost wonder if it might be more worth it for you to try a magus. You get heartier hit points, can wear armor with no penalty to spell casting, have access to arcanas - including the wand arcana that allows you to use a wand in spell combat - you will have access to spell combat and your spell progression would be about the same. You can use a strength build or a dex build and still manage to have good saves - will and fort are the base saves. The only difference between them and the paladin/sorceror build would be 1 spell level - A straight sorceror would see 8th level magic, your build would see a max of 7th level, unless you went EK, then you'd only see 6th, similar to the magus. And, (slight spoiler) in the area I'm at now we keep finding these 1st level pearls of power with no one in our party able to use them. UMD is a class skill, so you could use the tactic I used in another campaign, UMD wand of cure on self while getting full attack each round. Finally, if you really set on being the distance fighter, build your character to become an arcane archer - Arcana to enchant your bow, Arcane Archer enchants your arrows. Fire a +1 bow with frost/shock & speed(keen if you have haste up) with and arrow that does flaming burst, holy and distance and you'll likely be doing enough damage per round to drop anything, and if not imbue you arrow - the one with all of these nifty enchants - with a fireball for the finish. Just my 2 cent ramble here, but you wanted options. Oh, also look into the Varisian Tatoo feat. If you go pally/sorceror route your party will respect you more if your spells are even more effective than a straight caster your level.
I will start another thread for detailed build of the dwarf monk archer / empyreal sorc.
Does anybody have any helpful advice on the paladin / celestial sorc other than don't do it?
Here is a paladin/sorcerer/dragon build I had built some time ago, focused on being an undead hunter:
PALORIUS CR 10
Male Half-Orc Dragon Disciple 6 Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) 4 Sorcerer 1
LG Medium Humanoid (Orc)
Init +6; Senses Blindsense (30 feet), Darkvision (60 feet); Perception +8
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DEFENSE
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AC 16, touch 10, flat-footed 16 (+6 natural)
hp 107 (6d12+4d10+1d6+33)
Fort +15, Ref +8, Will +14
Immune fear, disease; Resist fire 5, Dragon Resistances
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OFFENSE
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Spd 30 ft.
Melee +1 Bane (undead) (undead), Holy Lance, Hooked
A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or s +14/+9 (1d8+8/20/x4) and
Bite (Razortusk) +8 (1d4+2/20/x2) and
Unarmed Strike +13/+8 (1d3+5/20/x2)
Ranged +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +4) +9/+4 (1d8+5/20/x3)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon (1/day) (DC 18), Dragon Bite, Magic Claws & Fire Bite (8 rounds/day), Smite Evil (3/day)
Spell-Like Abilities Detect Evil (At will)
Sorcerer Spells Known (CL 7, +13 melee touch, +8 ranged touch):
2 (5/day) Resist Energy (DC 17), Glitterdust (DC 17), Mirror Image (DC 17)
1 (8/day) Burning Hands (DC 16), Protection from Evil (DC 16), Shield (DC 16), Mage Armor (DC 16), Vanish (DC 16)
0 (at will) Touch of Fatigue (DC 15), Mage Hand, Prestidigitation (DC 15), Read Magic (DC 15), Detect Magic, Disrupt Undead
Paladin (Oath of Vengeance) Spells Known (CL 1, 13 melee touch, 8 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) Protection from Evil (DC 16), Bless Weapon
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STATISTICS
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Str 18/20, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 18/20
Base Atk +8; CMB +13 (+15 Bull Rushing+15 Tripping); CMD 23 (25 vs. Bull Rush25 vs. Trip)
Feats Arcane Strike, Combat Expertise +/-3, Eschew Materials, Extra Lay on Hands, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Trip, Power Attack -3/+6, Razortusk
Traits Magical Knack: Sorcerer, Reactionary
Skills Appraise +6, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Escape Artist +5, Fly +5, Handle Animal +9, Heal +5, Intimidate +12, Knowledge (Arcana) +10, Knowledge (Local) +7, Knowledge (Planes) +10, Knowledge (Religion) +10, Perception +8, Ride +5, Sense Motive +5, Spellcraft +7, Survival +1, Use Magic Device +13
Languages Common, Draconic, Goblin, Orc
SQ Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su), Aura of Good (Ex), Channel Wrath (Su), Divine Grace (Su), Draconic: Brass Dragon (Fire), Lay on Hands (2d6) (9/day) (Su), Mercy: Fatigued (Su), Orc Ferocity (1/day), Ring of Sustenance, Silver Smite Bracelet
Combat Gear +1 Bane (undead) (undead), Holy Lance, Hooked
A bane weapon excels at attacking one type or s, +1 Longbow, Composite (Str +4); Other Gear Amulet of Natural Armor +3, Belt of Giant Strength, +2, Handy Haversack (empty), Headband of Alluring Charisma, +2, Ring of Sustenance, Silver Smite Bracelet
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SPECIAL ABILITIES
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Arcane Strike As a swift action, add +1 damage, +1 per 5 caster levels and your weapons are treated as magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
Aura of Courage (10' radius) (Su) You are immune to Fear. Allies within 10 feet save at +4 vs Fear.
Aura of Good (Ex) The paladin has an Aura of Good with power equal to her class level.
Blindsense (30 feet) (Ex) Sense things and creatures without seeing them.
Breath Weapon (1/day) (DC 18) (Su) 1/day, Breath Weapon deals 6d6 Fire damage, DC 18.
Channel Wrath (Su) When an oathbound paladin reach 4th level, she can spend two uses of her lay on hands ability to gain an extra use of smite evil that day.
This ability has no effect for a paladin who does not have the smite evil ability. This ability replaces
Combat Expertise +/-3 Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
Damage Resistance, Fire (5) You have the specified Damage Resistance against Fire attacks.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Detect Evil (At will) (Sp) You can use Detect Evil at will (as the spell).
Divine Grace (Su) You gain your Charisma Bonus as a bonus to all saving throws.
Draconic: Brass Dragon (Fire) +1 damage per die for [Fire] spells.
Dragon Bite (Ex) Bite atacks deal 1d6 damage
Dragon Resistances (Ex) You gain Fire resistance 5 and +2 natural armor
Eschew Materials Cast spells without materials, if component cost is 1 gp or less.
Immune to Fear (Ex) You are immune to all fear effects.
Immunity to Disease You are immune to diseases.
Improved Bull Rush Bull Rush at +2 to push back. No attack of opportunity.
Improved Trip You Trip at +2 and don't cause an attack of opportunity.
Lay on Hands (2d6) (9/day) (Su) You can heal 2d6 damage, 9/day
Magic Claws & Fire Bite (8 rounds/day) (Ex) 2 Magic Claw attacks deal 1d6 damage. Bite attack deals 1d6 damage.
Magical Knack: Sorcerer +2 CL for a specific class, to a max of your HD.
Mercy: Fatigued (Su) When you use your lay on hands ability, it also removes the fatigued condition.
Orc Ferocity (1/day) 1/day, when brought below 0 HP but not killed, you can fight on for 1 more round as if disabled. The next round, unless brought to at least 0 HP, you immediately fall unconscious and begin dying.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Ring of Sustenance This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.
Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.
Silver Smite Bracelet This heavy silver bracelet is etched with icons of purity, fidelity, chastity, and honor, and glows with a soft white light whenever its owner prays. The wearer of this bracelet treats her paladin level as 4 higher than normal for the purpose of her smite evil class feature.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, align weapon, creator must be a paladin; Cost 8,000 gp
Smite Evil (3/day) (Su) +5 to hit, +8 to damage, +5 deflection bonus to AC when used.
He is 10th level and is built with only 20 pbs and the draconic bloodline, but you get the idea I think.
Generally I would not dip into paladin for two levels just for the saves bonuses. You gain too many restrictions, e.g. alignment, and lose a lot compared to other classes. I think going 4 levels with a vengeance variant as above and a silver smite bracelet, turning you more into a melee character, is a better choice. :-)