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I tried WoW briefly (I'm the only person I know who managed to die as a ghost) and spent a little more time with LotRO. The MMO I have most experience with, though, is Guild Wars. And none of them hold my interest for long... because of the immersion factor.
I want to get in and feel like I am roleplaying. And yet, this is always ruined for me because you keep getting spammed with calls for certain classes to go do X dungeon, requests to trade, invitations to join parties despite not knowing the person at all...
In a tabletop game, the GM doesn't let you go through the same dungeon over and over, until you find the loot you want. He might have you walk through a marketplace where people are shouting prices for goods, but the marketplace isn't across the entire town, and generally people shout what they are selling, not what they need to trade for. He doesn't have random strangers come up to you and say, "Hey, you look like a wizard, want to team up and kill stuff?"
Would it be possible to have some servers that are for strict roleplayers, where we aren't constantly beat over the head that this is a game (filled with 13 year olds) and the 4th wall isn't routinely broken just by setting foot in town?
I'm okay with this idea so long as theres yet another distinctive server called ERP.
My experience in World of Warcraft RP servers is that goldshire is a 24/7 orgy.
Goblin Squad Member
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*jots this down* -Goldshire- you say...? And on which server...?
...
Er...
*ahem*
Community designation is all good, but what we need are policed RP servers. Make people write at least 200 words of background to be able to get on them, put the name availability check up front with a reserve tag, and take trolling seriously. I do *NOT* want another twelve weeks of dealing with the freaking Super Goons.
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I'm down for this as long as we have the ability to bludgeon to death every elf named "Legolas" or character with a non-RP name or even some dunce who claims to be royalty.
I'm down for this as long as we have the ability to bludgeon to death every elf named "Legolas" or character with a non-RP name or even some dunce who claims to be royalty.
Madame this will be taking place in the River Kingdoms. Any man with a blade and a few hired goons becomes "royalty" by dint of being able to oppress whoever happens to be on their land at the time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Comparing my experience with mmorgs from Lineage to WOW, I have this suggestion:
Don't make any designations for "RP Servers".
Let the communities do so themselves the way they did in Lineage and Guild Wars. From what I can see unless Paizo moderators want to put in heavy amounts of time in policing rp activities and abuse such designations do more harm than good.
Well putting in heavy amounts of time policing is probably out of the question, but some form of enforcement has to be necessary if it is going to be done. Or possibly something like plane-shift did as far as making everyone take a lesson on role-play before they can even start their first character. I think one of the biggest hindrances is in an MMO, most people signing up, have no idea what real role-play is, no clue about the 4th wall etc... 15 people make a character on an RP server, odds are only 2 of them have ever done RP in any form. Thus when the one real RPer gets in the group, and starts talking IC. The other 4 in the group will treat him as a freak, and before long he won't even bother trying.
I'm down for this as long as we have the ability to bludgeon to death every elf named "Legolas" or character with a non-RP name or even some dunce who claims to be royalty.Madame this will be taking place in the River Kingdoms. Any man with a blade and a few hired goons becomes "royalty" by dint of being able to oppress whoever happens to be on their land at the time.
Might i rephrase that?
"I'm down for bludgeoning every player character that claims royalty who isn't the master of a keep, castle or otherwise fortified area.
As a fierce protector of the status quo i shall endeavour to oppress any who claims royal or noble lineage other than that of the incumbent land holder"
Well putting in heavy amounts of time policing is probably out of the question, but some form of enforcement has to be necessary if it is going to be doneThat's the thing, it might be something that's done on the first day, or the first week, but ultimately the only thing that will be done is that you might be able to report a player for an ill fitting name if that much. If a company with the budget of Blizzard can't find it practical to devote the personnel that would be needed for such enforcement, it's not going to happen here.
The concept of mandated RP servers is pretty much a failure save in the cases where roleplaying communities spontaneously formed on their own. Such formation was no different than on previous games that had no mandated servers.
What would generally happen in such a case is that after the game has been out for awhile some groups of people will come together on a server and make it known that a rp community is forming and then those who were interested made the jump to that server and made it happen.
This generally works a lot better than trying to mandate an official "rp server".
One idea that doesn't require enforcement is a simple tag for your character indicating it's an RP character. Once done filters in various searches for things like "group" can segregate the RP from the non-rp characters letting you find the rp groups and guilds more easily.
I think a simple Character background question list would scare off a good amount of the non-RPers too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Lack of serious role play would be a deal breaker for me.
Providing specific chat channels or designations would go a long way to promote role play.
When I played on a serious role play server via Neverwinter Nights normal chat was considered to be in character. Out of character chat was preceeded with double slashes and descriptions were encapsulated by astriks.
Normal in character chat.
//Out of character chat.
*Hopes these kind of features are fully integrated*
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I tried WoW briefly (I'm the only person I know who managed to die as a ghost) and spent a little more time with LotRO.
:D
I also managed to die as a ghost by swimming too far out to sea when I first started playing. My wisp died twice: once from a mob of nightstalkers and then once from fatigue! Yes, ghosts suffer fatigue! Who knew?!
Kind of like playing Wraith: The Oblivion!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the best bet is this, and simply this. The existing Paizo community gathers together on a single serve, makes it their home, and work hard to make a Role-playing friendly environment.
Build a community. Set an example and provide incentives to those who join the serve to join in.
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Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the trolls.
Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the trolls.
And lamentations of their women! :D
Troll women!!!
Once you go troll, you can never go back!
You can, but most trolls are unwilling to change. This is why not feeding the trolls is so important.
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Goblin Squad Member
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In a tabletop game, the GM doesn't;
let you go through the same dungeon over and over, until you find the loot you want.
He might have you walk through a marketplace where people are shouting prices for goods, but the marketplace isn't across the entire town, and generally people shout what they are selling, not what they need to trade for.
He doesn't have random strangers come up to you and say, "Hey, you look like a wizard, want to team up and kill stuff?"
You sure about all that?
Because to me, that sounds exactly like;
a) old-school megadungeons (Castle Greyhawk, Tegel Manor),
b) the plot hook from virtually every old-school adventure ("A mysterious cloaked stranger sits at your table uninvited, and asks if you'll go get him the Fabled Ruby of Kasdgfashasdgf.")
c) the way most groups form, usually at a tavern, usually just before or after the patrons have to defend themselves from some danger.
So you may want to rethink your stance that '13 year olds' are ruining the pure, deep immersion roleplay of the grown-ups, and consider how the designers of the game, along with their playtesters, actually intended the game to be played?
In a tabletop game, the GM doesn't;
let you go through the same dungeon over and over, until you find the loot you want.
He might have you walk through a marketplace where people are shouting prices for goods, but the marketplace isn't across the entire town, and generally people shout what they are selling, not what they need to trade for.
He doesn't have random strangers come up to you and say, "Hey, you look like a wizard, want to team up and kill stuff?"
You sure about all that?
Because to me, that sounds exactly like;
a) old-school megadungeons (Castle Greyhawk, Tegel Manor),
b) the plot hook from virtually every old-school adventure ("A mysterious cloaked stranger sits at your table uninvited, and asks if you'll go get him the Fabled Ruby of Kasdgfashasdgf.")
c) the way most groups form, usually at a tavern, usually just before or after the patrons have to defend themselves from some danger.
So you may want to rethink your stance that '13 year olds' are ruining the pure, deep immersion roleplay of the grown-ups, and consider how the designers of the game, along with their playtesters, actually intended the game to be played?
Okay. Fair point. When I GM, I try to make things more... original. So do most I play with.
In fact, just to thumb his nose at this, one player in my old playgroup took the party on an adventure from level 7 to 13, dragged us around the world, stopping some horrors, and witnessing the birth of a few more that we couldn't handle at the time. We finished it at last in a major town, finally caught our breath, and related everything to the local duke. The next day he called us to a local tavern to join him for breakfast...
The GM started that session, "So you are all in this tavern and you all know each other somehow..."
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Goblin Squad Member
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A well designed MMORPG should not need RP specific servers. In a perfect world (or well crafted world), the roleplayers would seamlessly gel into the player environment; not require a barbed wire cage.
I don't think that's true. The hardcore roleplaying types are going to want to isolate themselves from the non-roleplaying masses, and the non-roleplaying masses aren't going to want to bother with a bunch of people who insist on proper roleplaying interaction. Separation actually works pretty well.
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Goblin Squad Member
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A well designed MMORPG should not need RP specific servers. In a perfect world (or well crafted world), the roleplayers would seamlessly gel into the player environment; not require a barbed wire cage.I don't think that's true. The hardcore roleplaying types are going to want to isolate themselves from the non-roleplaying masses, and the non-roleplaying masses aren't going to want to bother with a bunch of people who insist on proper roleplaying interaction. Separation actually works pretty well.
Well that depends where you go. My most dominant RP experiences in MMORPGs come from Ultima Online and to some degree, World of Warcraft. The RP community in Ultima Online are one of the few who preferred integration with the game world as it's mechanics allowed for them to always remain in character and 'police' their own existence. Full loot and open PvP were for them, valuable tools in their immersion and they also had the opportunity to compete in mainstream PvP whilst maintaining their characters and institutions. Most remained in Felucca (until it died) and many still live on in Pre-Trammel private servers.
World of Warcraft RP, on the other hand, relies 100% on it's segregation and I agree that without this it would not be possible. How things pan out for PFO, we shall have to see.