Alternate Fighter Prototype

[David Andersen]

Hello,
This is my first attempt to rework the Core Version of the fighter. I feel that there are several challenges to making the fighter class a more engaging and fun class to play, and most of them deal with feats. Since a fighter's abilities are tied up in combat feats, which are always on, any special ability or bonus can quickly get out of hand. I gave my version of the fighter an expendable resource in the form of Stamina, which regenerates over time. She expends stamina in order to perform combat maneuvers, which add to the options a fighter has on the battlefield. In the interests of immersion, no martial maneuvers are magical or supernatural in nature, or mimic the effects of a spell. The idea is a more mobile exciting fighter, who runs around the battlefield raising havoc. Any comments would be appreciated.

Fighter

Alignment: Any

BAB: High

Hit Die: d10

High Saves: Fort

Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride
(Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str)

Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with light armor, medium armor, and shields (except tower shields).

Stamina (Ex): A fighter can draw upon deep physical reserves of strength and endurance to defeat her foes and protect her allies. In game terms Stamina is an expendable resource that a
Fighter can use to perform herculean feats of strength, speed and concentration. At the start of each day, a Fighter gains a number of Stamina points equal to her Fighter level plus her
constitution modifier, a Fighter's Stamina may not exceed this amount. A Fighter expends Stamina to perform Martial Maneuvers, and regains Stamina at a rate of 1 point per round. The amount
of Stamina recovered per round increases by +1 at 5th level, and every 5 levels after, to a total of 5 per round at level 20.

Martial Maneuvers (Ex): A Fighter is able to perform breathtaking feats of martial skill. A fighter gains her first martial maneuver at 1st level, and gains an additional maneuver every
level. Unless otherwise stated, in order to use a Martial Maneuver a Fighter must have sufficient stamina to pay it's activation cost. If a Fighter loses consciousness, she immediately loses
the benefit of any Martial Maneuvers she has activated. Unless otherwise stated a Fighter cannot activate the same Martial Ability more than once per round.

Armor Training (Ex):

Starting at 3rd level, a fighter learns to be more maneuverable while wearing armor. Whenever she is wearing armor, she reduces the armor check penalty by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and
increases the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by his armor by 1. Every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th), these bonuses increase by +1 each time, to a maximum –4 reduction of the
armor check penalty and a +4 increase of the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed.

In addition, a fighter can also move at his normal speed while wearing medium armor.

At 7th level, a fighter can move at his normal speed while wearing heavy armor she is proficient in.

Weapon Training (Ex): This functions as described in the Core Rulebook

Martial Maneuvers
(Note: There are no level restrictions for choosing maneuvers, as any maneuver that is too powerful for low levels has a prohibitively high stamina cost)

Active Dodging
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
It is harder to hit a moving target. This maneuver allows a Fighter to expend 1 Stamina in order to increase her Dexterity bonus by +1 for the purpose of AC, CMD, and Reflex saving throws.
This effect lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. This ability cannot increase the Fighters Dexterity bonus to AC beyond what is allowed for her armor. At level 5 she can
expend an additional stamina point to increase the bonus to +2. This increases every 5 levels after 5, to Spending 5 Stamina to receive a maximum of +5 at level 20.

Heavy Blows
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
A Fighter can put a mighty effort into each blow. This maneuver allows a Fighter to expend 1 Stamina in order to increase her Strength bonus by +1 for the purpose of Attack Rolls, CMB, and
Damage. This effect lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. At level 5 she can expend an additional Stamina point to increase the bonus to +2. This increases every 5 levels after
5, to a maximum of Spending 5 Stamina to receive +5 at level 20.

Iron Constitution
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
A Fighter is able to shrug off blows that would disable lesser women. This maneuver allows a fighter to expend 1 Stamina in order to increase her Constitution bonus by +1 for the purpose of
Fortitude saving throws. In addition the Fighter gains DR2/-. This effect lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. At level 5 she can expend an additional Stamina point to increase
the Constitution bonus to +2, and the Damage Resistance to DR 4/-. This increases every 5 levels after 5, to a maximum of Spending 5 Stamina to receive +5 Constitution, and DR 10/- at level
20.

Focused Will
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
A Fighter's stubbornness is able to fight off mental, as well as physical assaults. This maneuver allows a fighter to expend 1 Stamina in order to increase her Wisdom bonus by +1 for the
purpose of Will saving throws. This effect lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. At level 5 she can expend an additional Stamina point to increase the bonus to +2. This
increases every 5 levels after 5, to a maximum of Spending 5 Stamina to receive +5 at level 20

Martial Athleticism
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
A Fighter is able to use her conditioning to perform impressive athletic feats. This maneuver allows a Fighter to expend 1 Stamina in order to receive a +4 Martial bonus on Acrobatics,
Climb, and Swim skill checks. This effect lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. At level 5 she can expend an additional Stamina point to increase the bonus to +8. This increases
every 5 levels after 5, to a maximum of Spending 5 Stamina to receive +20 at level 20

Martial Sprint
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: Varies
A Fighter can engage in impressive, if short lived, bursts of speed. This maneuver allows a Fighter to expend 1 Stamina to increase Her base speed beyond the norm for her race by +10
feet. Apply this bonus before modifying the Fighter’s speed because of any load carried or armor worn. This bonus stacks with any other bonuses to the Fighter's land speed. This effect
lasts until the start of the Fighter's next turn. At level 5 she can expend an additional Stamina point to increase the bonus to +20 feet. This increases every 5 levels after 5, to a
maximum of Spending 5 Stamina to receive +50 feet at level 20.

Swift Focus
Action Type: Immediate
Stamina Cost: 2 Stamina
An experienced Fighter can prepare her body for trouble in the blink of an eye. This maneuver allows a Fighter to activate any Martial Maneuver with an action type of Free. The Fighter must
have sufficient Stamina to activate the chosen maneuver, and expends stamina points for it normally.

Second Wind
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: 4 Stamina
As other characters lay tired and shaken, the Fighter is just beginning to warm up. This maneuver immediately ends a single fatigue effect the Fighter is experiencing. It also allows the
Fighter an additional saving throw against any ongoing, non-permanent effect that is damaging the Fighter's Constitution score (such as poison).

Mind of a Champion
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: 4
A Fighter's mind is as hard to break as her body. This Maneuver allows the Fighter an additional saving throw against a single ongoing, non-instantaneous Fear, Enchantment, Illusion or Charm effect. This action can be taken even if the Fighter status would normally not allow her to take actions on her turn (such as if she was unconscious or dominated).

Threatening Step
Action Type: Immediate
Stamina Cost: 5
A Fighter can move quickly to intercept a nearby threat. This Maneuver allows a Fighter to move 5 feet in the direction of an enemy who has performed an action which would provoke an attack of opportunity if the Fighter was threatening their tile. If the Fighter threatens the enemy’s tile at the end of this move, she may perform an attack of opportunity as if he had been threatening the enemy’s tile when the action was performed. The Fighter must move towards the enemy in the most direct route possible, and provokes attacks of opportunity as he does so.

Foil Action
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 5
A Fighter's attack of opportunity can disrupt a foes actions. This Maneuver must be declared in place of an attack of opportunity. The Fighter must have an attack of opportunity available,
and this Maneuver counts as an Attack of Opportunity when determining the number of attacks of opportunity a Fighter may perform in a round. Instead of attacking normally, the Fighter
performs a Disarm, Trip, or Sunder attack against the enemy who provoked the attack. This attack does not provoke attacks of opportunity from the target, even if it would normally do so. It still may provoke attacks of opportunity from other opponents who threaten the fighter's tile. If the result of this attack leaves the enemy unable to perform their action, then their action fails and is wasted. (Ex: A foe cannot drink a disarmed potion, A spell with somatic components is interrupted if the caster is knocked prone, etc.)

Exploit Opportunity
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 10
A Fighter moves quickly to exploit any opening. This Maneuver must be declared in place of an attack of opportunity. The Fighter must have an attack of opportunity available, and this
Maneuver counts as an Attack of Opportunity when determining the number of attacks of opportunity a Fighter may perform in a round. Instead of attacking normally, the Fighter may perform a
standard or move action. Any offensive the Fighter takes as part of her standard action must be directed against the foe that provoked the attack of opportunity. If the result of this
action leaves the enemy unable to perform their action, then their action fails and is wasted.

Eager for Action
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 5
A Fighter is eager for battle, and is often the first one to charge into the fray. This maneuver can only be used at the beginning of a combat. The Fighter receives +5 to her initiative
check to determine turn order. When the Fighter takes her turn, if she is eligible to charge any enemy, she must choose to do so. Unlike a normal charge, the Fighter does not have to take
her movement in a straight line.

Lightning Assault
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 10
A Fighter spring into action before others can even draw their weapon. This maneuver can only be used at the beginning of a combat. The Fighter receives +10 to her initiative check to
determine turn order. When the Fighter takes her turn, if she is eligible to charge any enemy, she must choose to do so. The Fighter treats difficult terrain as normal terrain for determining
if she is eligible to charge an enemy. Unlike a normal charge, the Fighter does not have to take her movement in a straight line.

Active Interference
Action Type: Free
Stamina Cost: 3
This maneuver allows the fighter to make an additional attack of opportunity If the Fighter does not make the attack before the beginning of his next turn the attack is wasted. This
Maneuver may be used multiple times in a round but costs an additional 2 Stamina for each use beyond the first.

Acrobatic Recovery
Action Type: Swift
Stamina Cost: 2
A fighter can quickly recover from the prone position. This maneuver allows a Fighter to stand up. It does not provoke an attack of opportunity

Flying Tackle
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 3
A fighter can take down an enemy in a flying tackle. This maneuver can be used whenever the Fighter makes a charge attack against an enemy. Instead of an attack, the charge ends in a
Grapple combat maneuver. The Fighter gains +2 to his CMB to determine the result of his grapple. The grapple does not provoke attacks of opportunity. If the grapple is successful the Target
gains the prone condition in addition to the grapple condition. Regardless of the outcome, the fighter gains the prone condition.

Defensive Charge
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 5
The Fighter charges through opposition without lowering her guard. This maneuver can be used whenever the Fighter makes a charge attack against an enemy. The Fighter may sacrifice an attack of opportunity to cause an enemy attack of opportunity to fail. This ability only effects enemy attacks of opportunity provoked by the Fighter's charge movement. The Fighter may only cancel as many attacks as she has attacks of opportunity available for the round.

Whirling Charge
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 10
The Fighter moves towards their target in a whirl of steel. This maneuver can be used whenever the Fighter makes a charge attack against an enemy. During the Fighter's charge movement, any enemy that threatens a square she moves through provokes an attack of opportunity from the Fighter. The only exception is the target of the Fighter's charge.

Rapid Strike
Action Type: Immediate
Stamina Cost: 20
The Fighter springs into action, moving almost faster the eye can follow. This maneuver allows the fighter to take another full turn as an immediate action. This alters his place in the initiative order. If used to interrupt an enemy, next turn he will act directly before them in the initiative order. The Fighter does not regain stamina during this extra turn.

Destructive Blow
Action Type: Standard
Stamina Cost: 4
The Fighter gathers her power to demolish a unattended object. This maneuver allows the fighter to make a melee attack against an unattended object. The Fighter rolls to hit as normal, if she is successful, the attack does double damage and uses the full amount possible on any dice that would be rolled for damage.

Leaping Charge
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 3
Even normally unreachable foes can be brought down by a skilled Fighter. This maneuver can be used whenever the Fighter makes a charge attack against an enemy. The Fighter is allowed to make a single jump in order to reach a high up or flying foe. The Fighter must still move in a straight line towards the enemy. The Fighter must declare she is making a leaping charge before she makes her jump check. If her jump check is insufficient to reach her target, she still moves towards her target, and makes her jump, but her attack automatically fails. If upon reaching her target, the Fighter is airborne, she continues her movement after her attack.

Whirling Reprieve
Action Type: Move
Stamina Cost: 5
The Fighter whirls her weapon around her in a deadly circle, pushing back encircling foes. When this maneuver is used, the Fighter will not provoke attacks of opportunity for any action she may take until the end of her turn. If the fighter moves from her starting square she provokes attacks of opportunity normally, although her starting tile does not count as being threatened, even if it would be so normally.

Dive for Cover
Action Type: Immediate
Stamina Cost: 5
The Fighter leaps for cover in order to avoid an incoming threat. Until the beginning of the Fighter's next turn she counts as having the Evasion feat. As part of this maneuver the fighter must move 5 feet in any available direction (which provokes attacks of opportunity as normal) and gains the prone status.

Expert Dive
Action Type: Immediate
Stamina Cost: 10
The Fighter efficiently moves out of danger. Until the beginning of the Fighter's next turn she counts as having the Improved Evasion feat. As part of this maneuver the fighter may move 5 feet in any available direction (which provokes attacks of opportunity as normal) and gains the prone status.

Super Slam
Action Type: Special
Stamina Cost: 5
The Fighter breaks a grapple with a powerful throw that leaves the target dazed on the ground. This maneuver can be used when a Fighter makes a successful attempt to continue a grapple she controls. This maneuver provokes attacks of opportunity. The Fighter brutally slams the target on the ground, dealing damage equal to the Fighter's strength bonus. Place the target in any legal tile adjacent to the Fighter. If you attempt to place your opponent in a hazardous location (pit, wall of fire) they may make an immediate attempt to escape the grapple at a +4 bonus. If the maneuver is successful, the target gains the prone condition, and is dazed for one round. If the Fighter was prone at the beginning of this maneuver, she automatically stands up as part of it. is closer to also eligible to charge (if it was the fighter's turn).

I am planning to add/modify this list of manuevers

[Ellington]

I like this, and have very little to add. This is what the pathfinder fighter should have been instead of getting endless bonuses to hit and damage. New moves are a lot more fun than new feats, too.

Having a regenerating pool system is a very good idea, but having it regenerate 1 point every round is a bit excessive in book-keeping terms, but then again there's a lot of that in Pathfinder already (see prepared spell lists and the inquisitor). I'd have it regenerate one point every turn instead, but that's not the issue here. I haven't gone over all the maneuvers mechanically, but they look fun and some even have out of combat applications. You should consider adding something for intimidation, so they fighter isn't just a log in social situations.

I'd really like to test this out some time, but I don't think my group is in the situation to do so any time soon. I'll be keeping my eye on this, though. Best of luck!

[SerCypher]

Ellington wrote:

Thanks for reading! The Maneuvers listed are more of examples of what I had in mind rather than concrete rules. I tried to stay away from anything that would directly increase attack damage, I feel that the fighter's problem has never been too much damage.

(changed my alias I'm the OP)

[seekerofshadowlight]

I have not read all the maneuvers, but why not do away with points? Have them work like rage powers or rogue tricks, they are either always on, usable say once a fight or so many times a day.

[SerCypher]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

I have not read all the maneuvers, but why not do away with points? Have them work like rage powers or rogue tricks, they are either always on, usable say once a fight or so many times a day.

The problem is that a Fighter is not a supernatural creature. There is no fluff reason a fighter should be able to do a special kind of charge, but only once per day or once per encounter. I feel stamina points represent that a Fighter can do truly amazing feats, but there is a explainable reason why these feats are limited. Also since until very high levels the Fighter would never have over 20 stamina points, a D20 can be easily used to track stamina totals.

edit:
Also I think it's far easier to keep track of a single number value, then to keep track of a whole spreadsheet of limited use abilities. For example it's much simpler as a wizard to keep track of your HP rather than what spells you have and haven't cast.

[seekerofshadowlight]

A Rogue does not use magic or supernatual powers to do his tricks and a barbarian does not either. It is up to you, I just find it far more fiddly then it need be.

[kyrt-ryder]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

A Rogue does not use magic or supernatual powers to do his tricks and a barbarian does not either. It is up to you, I just find it far more fiddly then it need be.

He does have a point in this regard. The low point total and recharge mechanic is kind of cool, but it is indeed quite fiddly.

One possible solution would be to increase the total points and scrap the per round recharge. Instead let the fighter 'recharge' by resting. A full round action can recharge X points (possibly equal to his constitution modifier, given the higher point totals such a design would have) while resting for 5 or 10 minutes would recover them all.

Some people might throw a fit about the similarity between this and ToB, but the difference is it's not restricting the kind of maneuvers you can use on a turn by turn basis, just burning away your stamina until you can recover your breath.

[SerCypher]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

A Rogue does not use magic or supernatual powers to do his tricks and a barbarian does not either. It is up to you, I just find it far more fiddly then it need be.

Well a barbarian for example. It has a thing you have to keep track of (rage rounds), and several abilities that are one use per rage and or one use per day. Fighters currently have 0 things to track besides hit points. I don't feel like adding 1 resource mechanic makes them needlessly complicated. I understand your sentiment though, of not wanting to add more record keeping into an already record intensive game.

edit: And yes barbarians and rogues are not expressly supernatural, but barbarians can heal themselves, and rogues get major and minor magic. So they can do things with their abilities that can otherwise only be done with magic.

I encourage you to read the Maneuvers though, you may understand more of what I am trying to do.

kyrt-ryder wrote:

I have considered doing that. I am still debating the benefits of regenerating points versus non-regenerating. The big problem is that there are some powers that are very powerful, and I feel are balanced by the fact that they can only be used every few rounds. I also feel like the regenerating points encourage more daring play, encouraging players to use points every round, rather than hoard them in case they are needed.

[Aelryinth]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

A Rogue does not use magic or supernatual powers to do his tricks and a barbarian does not either. It is up to you, I just find it far more fiddly then it need be.

Untrue. Several rage powers are supernatural, which implies that barbarian rage is really nothing more then the chaotic equivalent of Ki powers, and is indeed magical.

Rogue and Fighter on their own, I guess.

==Aelryinth

[Ellington]

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

A Rogue does not use magic or supernatual powers to do his tricks and a barbarian does not either. It is up to you, I just find it far more fiddly then it need be.

Well, who's to say rogue and barbarian powers have been handled correctly so far?

[Warclam]

This is brilliant. This is actually how I wish ki powers worked, instead of the daily limit. There could a whole suite, in fact. Fighters with Con, Barbarians with "rage" instead of stamina, which is barbarian level + Str mod. Ninja and monk are Cha and Wis respectively. Rogue is… Int ("guile"), I guess? Or maybe Dex, and make a Pathfinder update to the factotum for Int.

[Drejk]

Interesting. Dot.

[Flak]

I love the idea. I'm not sure this works quite perfectly with the maneuvers as sketched above, but I like where it's headed, and want to see more. Dotting.

[Bwang]

dotting, can hardly wait for Aelryinth's ruminations.

[Red_Dragon]

Very cool idea SerCypher. Are you still working on it?

[Adam B. 135]

I actually really like this. My only recommendation is to give fighters some kind of Bonus combat feat progression. Nothing big, just something like 1st level, 6th level, and every 6 levels thereafter. Kinda like a cavalier. This will help them get fun feats like combat maneuvers, archery, mounted combat, or even fighter only feats.

Obviously more maneuvers are needed too, but I think you are on the right track. I recommend a maneuver to throw archers a bone. Something like "ignore 2 of an enemy's cover bonus, This increases every 5 levels after 5, to Spending 5 Stamina to receive a maximum of +6 at level 20."

Or something to increase range increments.

[Trogdar]

I would recommend taking out weapon training and replacing it with an ability that modifies feats like power attack.

I find the idea of fighters getting more and more specialized at one kind of combat as the absolute antithesis of the fighter as a concept though, so your mileage may vary on that front.

[Trogdar]

Oh! Another thing that I thought was a good idea was giving the fighter an ability that made them better at retraining hit points and feats and such (from ultimate campaign). I believe Aelyrinth was the one who was talking about it in another thread...?

[master_marshmallow]

Haven't read the mechanics, but I love the Grit Mechanics and I love that this mirrors that in a way.

Personally I would like to see more martial characters be based off different stats, since barb already uses his CON to access his rage, I think it would be cool to see the fighter based off INT or WIS.

Going to read through the maneuvers before giving more feedback.

[Adam B. 135]

David Anderson, what would your opinion be on a maneuver that is basically Greater Bladed Dash? It could be pretty cool and cinematic.

I cannot begin to think of a base cost for it, but instead of it targeting an infinite number of dudes, it could target 1 for every extra stamina invested?

[kyrt-ryder]

master_marshmallow wrote:

Personally I would like to see more martial characters be based off different stats, since barb already uses his CON to access his rage, I think it would be cool to see the fighter based off INT or WIS.

Wis would be pretty nice, supporting better Will Saves (granted it does make the Fighter a smidge more Mad, which isn't a good thing, but it's the stat most Fighters put on their Headband of Mental Stat Enhancement anyway)

[Adam B. 135]

kyrt-ryder wrote:

master_marshmallow wrote:

Personally I would like to see more martial characters be based off different stats, since barb already uses his CON to access his rage, I think it would be cool to see the fighter based off INT or WIS.

Wis would be pretty nice, supporting better Will Saves (granted it does make the Fighter a smidge more Mad, which isn't a good thing, but it's the stat most Fighters put on their Headband of Mental Stat Enhancement anyway)

Wisdom could make sense. A lot of the time, the ability to keep going while I ran cross country was mental ability, and not physical. Though honestly, I feel more comfortable with this ability being tied to Constitution. Perhaps the Endurance feat could also increase the fighter's Stamina?