Hi guys,
I've just commenced a new campaign. It's Kingmaker.
I'm currently a level 2 Two Weapon Warrior/ Rogue.
2x Sawtooth Sabres, EWP, WF and TWF
The rest of the party comprises of a Cleric, Sorc/Ranger, Greatsword fighter and a Wizard.
Obviously I'm eyeing up the Red Mantis Prestige class, and was intending to go 2F 3R before Red Mantis.
Can anyone think of any smart alternatives of how I can mix it up a little?
Just a heads up, I am +0 Int and Cha. I wish I'd taken more Cha, but didn't have the points to spare.
I was also thinking of mixing in Monk for the stunning fist, but I don't have the Wis to make it worthwhile.
Any advice would be great!
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Need the rest of your build to give you much more info on what you can do.
Taking levels in Ranger is much better for your start then Fighter. Over all the two weapon warrior is ok. The ability you really want is not until high level. So it dose not really do you much good. Dropping that many skill points to gain one in combat ability.
I have not looked over the Red Mantis PrC. After going over so many that are all flavor and next to no real gain in ability's. They could be a trap for making your character less effective why making them more flavor.
Hi guys,
I've just commenced a new campaign. It's Kingmaker.
I'm currently a level 2 Two Weapon Warrior/ Rogue.
2x Sawtooth Sabres, EWP, WF and TWF
The rest of the party comprises of a Cleric, Sorc/Ranger, Greatsword fighter and a Wizard.
Obviously I'm eyeing up the Red Mantis Prestige class, and was intending to go 2F 3R before Red Mantis.
Can anyone think of any smart alternatives of how I can mix it up a little?
Just a heads up, I am +0 Int and Cha. I wish I'd taken more Cha, but didn't have the points to spare.
I was also thinking of mixing in Monk for the stunning fist, but I don't have the Wis to make it worthwhile.
Any advice would be great!
I am not quite sure I understand your plans. You are 1 level fighter, 1 level rogue, and then want to get 2 more levels of fighter and 3 more of rogue, so you would enter red mantis at level 8 - is that correct? I guess you want to wait until then to raise your ability scores?
Why did you choose rogue - for the skills? Is evasion important or are you aiming for sneak attack?
Monk is not a bad dip, but I assume you will wear armor, so you will miss out on a few class features. There are basically two routes you could pursue to "mix it up":
#1 - keep BAB as high as possible, that means only full BAB martial classes
#2 - look for class features with a minimum drop in BAB
For #1, ranger might be interesting for favored enemy (e.g. human) and the combat style. Maybe retrain your fighter TWF feat (you took it as combat feat hopefully),get it from ranger and thus free up a slot. You also get to use wands of cure light wounds from the start, so a 2-level dip might pay off.
Maybe consider barbarian - rage gives a great boost and you can gain additional rounds and powers with feats.
For #2, you might want to take inquisitor if your wisdom is greater than 10 - you get a host of useful stuff at levels 1 and 2. You might even choose a fitting domain such as death or shadow to emphasize on the assassin class.
A 1-level dip into alchemist (vivisectionist) gives you an additional sneak attack and some spells (see above for casting with boost items), bombs, skills etc.
Alternatively, consider the assassin prestige class. It might do a lot what you need, get wands and boost use magic device skills.
Need the rest of your build to give you much more info on what you can do.
STR 18
DEX 16CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 10
AC 17, BAB +1, HP 16
Sawtooth Sabres +4/+4 (1d8+4/1d8+2)
Feats EWP (SS), WF (SS), TWF
Sorry Sangalor, I wasn't very clear obviously.
I meant that I will take Red Mantis at Level 6. So F2/R3 or F3/R2 then RMA.
Inquisitor is nice, and I'd thought about it, but it would require boosting my WIS at 4th and 8th?
A divine class makes most sense to me as a Red mantis assassin.
I'd also considered Barbarian, I think that could work quite nicely, and I sort of have the stats to support a little dip.
My worry is that dipping too much into different classes will nerf me later on, and that maybe I should stick to pure rogue or fighter from now on until a little later on?
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From where you are now Fighter2 / Rogue 3 is your best option. RMA over all is a nice Prc but lacking. If your set on RMA get a Cha item first so you can use your spells from the Prc. Other then that there over all ability's I find lacking compared to just staying rogue and getting advanced Rogue talents.
Rogues get a lot of flack on the boards. Over all I know better some of the highest damage characters I ever made are rogues. With your Con being as low as it is you might want to think about taking toughness.
From where you are now Fighter2 / Rogue 3 is your best option. RMA over all is a nice Prc but lacking. If your set on RMA get a Cha item first so you can use your spells from the Prc. Other then that there over all ability's I find lacking compared to just staying rogue and getting advanced Rogue talents.
Rogues get a lot of flack on the boards. Over all I know better some of the highest damage characters I ever made are rogues. With your Con being as low as it is you might want to think about taking toughness.
Thanks man,
I'm just erring towards F3 R2 for the extra feat and the armour mastery which is invaluable I think....
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It's cheaper to get a mithral chain shirt then to pay 3 class levels for that ability.
The base you used is how I make most rogues. With the exception of Int 10 Cha 8. If I multiclass any thing with Rogue it is Ranger. So I can lower there Dex to 15 and get a higher Con. Has allot to do with my group using a 15 point buy.
My favorite Rogue is my Dwarf Rogue/Ranger(8/6). Was allowed to take the feet over sized two weapon fighting from 3.5.
Str 14 (+1 at 4,8)
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 12
Cha 6
(2) Dwarven Waraxe's + Sneak Attack damage is very nice.
Get skill fcs:intimidate, conrugan smash, dazzling display and shatter defences. Hope your rogue is a scout/brute.
Now move in and scouts charge a foe with pa on. He's now flatfooted to you, without needing a flank. Sneak attack away!!
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Thanks man,I'm just erring towards F3 R2 for the extra feat and the armour mastery which is invaluable I think....
Armor mastery is nice, but I would not stay in the class for that reason primarily. F3 R2 is a good option for you with your scores.
You should be able to take inquisitor, just get a stat boosting item or wait until level 4 (better IMO) to increase your wisdom by 1 - 11 is enough to cast first level spells. So unless you want to go for more than 3 levels of inquisitor that is enough. You lose out 1 BAB compared to rogue and fighter, but it may well be worth it.
Barbarian is quite easy a dip and should absolutely be workable. However, you cannot cast spells when you are raging (unless you're urban barbarian), so it kind of depends on how much you plan on using them...
But I am still not sure I understand why you want to go for the red mantis class. It is not really a strong class, and your stats are really highly unsuited for the spells class feature, one of its stronger points :-/
Again - any special reason why you're going for the red mantis assassin instead of the assassin prestige class?
Again - any special reason why you're going for the red mantis assassin instead of the assassin prestige class?
Just really like the idea of the class, the spells are pretty good too, but obviously I'd need to take the +1 to Cha at 4th and then the +1 to Dex at 8th for Imp TWF. Then stack Cha items to keep my spell casting up.
I like the assassin class but I just think the death strike is pretty underpowered.
The Sabre Fighting feats and spells from the RMA are pretty strong, and definitely worth investigating even if it's just a few levels.
Le bump
Again - any special reason why you're going for the red mantis assassin instead of the assassin prestige class?
Just really like the idea of the class, the spells are pretty good too, but obviously I'd need to take the +1 to Cha at 4th and then the +1 to Dex at 8th for Imp TWF. Then stack Cha items to keep my spell casting up.
I like the assassin class but I just think the death strike is pretty underpowered.
The Sabre Fighting feats and spells from the RMA are pretty strong, and definitely worth investigating even if it's just a few levels.
I see, yeah, they are not bad. Essentially what you could get with staying pure fighter ;-P
Still, your stats are highly unsuited for that class as they are now. Maybe ask your DM if you can reassign some stats if you really want it.
I think the death strike is quite strong btw. Especially once you reach swift death at 9th level :-)