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Good morning all ^_^ I've got a lovely question that I really need an answer to to continue playing my summoner...
Okay, I've looked, and had other people look, and talked to my GM's and I've got nothing to show for it except the notion that no one's made up their minds. It seems to be addressed here and there but not quite as directly as I'd like to see it. So here it goes:
1.A summoner casts arcane spells drawn from the summoner spell list.
2.Starting at 1st level, a summoner can cast summon monster I as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + his Charisma modifier. He can cast this spell as a standard action and the creatures remain for 1 minute per level (instead of 1 round per level). At 3rd level, and every 2 levels thereafter, the power of this ability increases by one spell level, allowing him to summon more powerful creatures.
3.Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables.
Now, given this information, which of the following feats/traits will affect this and which will not:
1. Varisian Tattoo (feat)-
Prerequisite: Spell Focus.
Benefit: Select a school of magic (other than divination) in which you have Spell Focus—you cast spells from this school at +1 caster level. Additionally, you gain a single spell-like ability usable up to three times per day.
2. Gifted Adept (trait) -
Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. Whenever you cast that spell, its effects manifest at +1 caster level.
3. Spell Specialization (feat) -
Prerequisites: Int 13, Spell Focus.
Benefit: Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.
Every time you gain an even level in the spellcasting class you chose your spell from, you can choose a new spell to replace the spell selected with this feat, and that spell becomes your specialized spell.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a different spell.
*Also, it was already ruled that Augment Summoning [Prerequisite: Spell Focus (conjuration).Benefit: Each creature you conjure with any summon spell gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength and Constitution for the duration of the spell that summoned it.] was legal to use as a summoner for Summon Monster (not eidolon).
So, saying that you need to specifically choose Summon Monster I or II or whatever is not necessary, Summon Monster refers to all of it's "levels", and being able to Spell Focus in conjuration is also legal [sorry, I read somewhere they thought it wasn't allowed...sigh]. It has been for the most part agreed that a spell-like ability is treated as a spell but minus the components of a spell to bypass silence and other such affects, meaning the intention was to make it "innate" but not "less than" an actual spell.
Given this, I'd be fine just being allowed to fully utilize Varisian Tattoo and get early access to Summon Monster III at 4th level. (I'm currently level 3) But I think if it's legal, Spell Specialization should be as well. Of course, that begs the question, can they all be stacked for a grand total of Summon Monster IV by 3rd level?
Summoner's tbh aren't too good at much else, being limited to so few spells, so why not? If being able to summon something with a few more hit points or base attack bonus points breaks the game, well...that's kind of sad, but I can understand if that's an honest interpretation and not just a complaint about Summoners being an "exception to everything".
Don't mean to sound forward, I type offensively, lol. Some answers would be appreciated though. Also, if I've somehow missed a ruling on this issue, please let me know.
Though they are not spells, spell-like abilities function like spells in EVERY WAY and use the rules for spells, except where explicitly mentioned otherwise (such as the lack of spell slots and components, for example).
Heck, game developers have even ruled you could even use metamagic on them if their is no level slot increase.
Nope, the summon monster spell like abilities are determined by your class level, not your caster level. (Ie. if you join a prestige class that grants +1 casting / level, your spell like abilities do not improve.)
They might, however, grant you additional time on your summons, depending on your DM.
If you use the Summon Monster based off of 3+Cha modifier (Sp), I can see where you're coming from, but what about using the spell from the spell list in a spell slot?
Though they are not spells, spell-like abilities function like spells in EVERY WAY and use the rules for spells, except where explicitly mentioned otherwise (such as the lack of spell slots and components, for example).
Heck, game developers have even ruled you could even use metamagic on them if their is no level slot increase.
No they didn't. They said because metamagic uses slots, and SLA's don't use slots at all they can't be affected by metamagic feats.
Nope, the summon monster spell like abilities are determined by your class level, not your caster level. (Ie. if you join a prestige class that grants +1 casting / level, your spell like abilities do not improve.)
They might, however, grant you additional time on your summons, depending on your DM.
This is correct. I must edit my last statement.
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Now, given this information, which of the following feats/traits will affect this and which will not:
1. Varisian Tattoo (feat)-
Prerequisite: Spell Focus.
Benefit: Select a school of magic (other than divination) in which you have Spell Focus—you cast spells from this school at +1 caster level. Additionally, you gain a single spell-like ability usable up to three times per day.
As I understand it, Varisian Tattoo should work like Spell Focus, which may affect a spell-like ability of a spell that it would apply towards, depending on your GM. I've seen it both allowed and forbidden by different people who write for Paizo, although the more 'official' of the two is the one who said 'no.'
AFAIK, none of the actual rules guru's (Jason or, I think, Sean) have weighed in on this.
I'd go with the 'spell-like abilities work like spells, but can't be metamagicked without special feats' interpretation and therefore Varisian Tattoo would be a go.
2. Gifted Adept (trait) -
Benefit: Pick one spell when you choose this trait. Whenever you cast that spell, its effects manifest at +1 caster level.
This too, with the above caveat, should be fine.
Note that summon monster I is *not* the same spell as summon monster II, or III or IX. The trait would only apply to one of these spells, not to a line of spells (like create undead, create greater undead or dispel magic, greater dispel magic).
3. Spell Specialization (feat) -
Prerequisites: Int 13, Spell Focus.
Benefit: Select one spell of a school for which you have taken the Spell Focus feat. Treat your caster level as being two higher for all level-variable effects of the spell.
Every time you gain an even level in the...
Same deal. One spell. Each of the nine Summon Monster spells is a different spell.
I picked the more generous of the two interpretations of the 'spell-like abilities work like spells' options, but stretching to have all nine of the summon monster (or summon nature's ally) spells count as a single spell for these purposes seem to be grabbed for a mile when one has been offered an inch.
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Even if you managed to raise your caster level, you would not have access to higher-level summon monster spells. Your caster level effects the spell's duration and sometimes other numerical effects, and how difficult it is to dispel the spell. But raising your caster level for summer monster I won't give you summon monster II. It will just make summon monster I last longer.
Feats (such as Spell Focus) which affect spells basically do not affect spell-like abilities. That's what Ability Focus and other monster feats are for. Spell-like abilities act like spells, but they are not spells.
See James Jacobs' answers to similar questions here.
I hope that helps. The way I see it, none of the feats you propose work with the summoner's spell-like ability. But I may be wrong!
I think the statements about Summon Monster I being considered a completely different spell from Summon Monster II, etc, needs a bit of a judgement call as well. But that may just be my lack of knowledge regarding how spells work. I was under the impression that it was simply a tiered spell so anything referring to it's original "form" would affect all other forms.
But given what I've heard, I think I have to agree that the Summon Monster spell-like ability summoning can't be adjusted due to the fact that it DOES say it's based off the same summoning as the eidolon which IS based on character level and not caster level.
I would still suggest though that if a summoner wanted to learn the "summon monster I" spell in a spell slot, he could have it affected by all of the above feats/traits and have it boosted to "summon monster III" by 3rd level - however, it would be subject to the normal spell duration (1 round) instead of the summoner's augmented duration (1 minute). And it would use up number of spells per day...so, compared to all the feats one could take instead of those...it's not worth it, lol.
Though...at 10th level you COULD reassign the affected spell to Summon Monster V...and then summon level VII monsters once a day...and 3 times a day by level 12...but nobody wants to really summon a Tyrannosaurus...do they???
Thank you all for answering me! ^_^ I'm happy with the verdict and will probably just take Superior Summoning instead. Have a great Thanksgiving week!
Though they are not spells, spell-like abilities function like spells in EVERY WAY and use the rules for spells, except where explicitly mentioned otherwise (such as the lack of spell slots and components, for example).
Heck, game developers have even ruled you could even use metamagic on them if their is no level slot increase.
No they didn't. They said because metamagic uses slots, and SLA's don't use slots at all they can't be affected by metamagic feats.
It wouldn't be the first time different game developers have had different ideas on how the rules work.