Some simple PFS rules questions...

[Gelmir]

I have a couple of quick questions. Thanks in advance.

1) Where can I find a quick summary of which classes/archetypes are not legal in PFS?

(and you can guess what is coming next...)

2) Is the Dawnflower Dervish Bard achetype PFS legal (from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish

3) I assume that the Kensai and Bladebound archetypes for Magus are both legal, correct?

[Provos]

Additional Resources available for use in pfs is available here.

From that info the Dawnflower Dervish is not allowed.

The Kensai and Bladebound appear to be allowed.

[Jiggy]

Gelmir wrote:

I have a couple of quick questions. Thanks in advance.

1) Where can I find a quick summary of which classes/archetypes are not legal in PFS?

(and you can guess what is coming next...)

2) Is the Dawnflower Dervish Bard achetype PFS legal (from Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic?

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-a rchetypes/dawnflower-dervish

3) I assume that the Kensai and Bladebound archetypes for Magus are both legal, correct?

If you go to the Additional Resources page, you'll find a complete list of everything that's PFS legal. (Do note that some entries say "X and Y from this book are legal" while others say "everything in this book except X and Y are legal", so read carefully.)

It's a long list, but if you just use your browser's search function (usually Ctrl+F) and search for the name of the sourcebook in question (like Inner Sea World Guide), it shouldn't take you long to find the things you're looking for.

[Sniggevert]

Provos wrote:

Additional Resources available for use in pfs is available here.

From that info the Dawnflower Dervish is not allowed.

The Kensai and Bladebound appear to be allowed.

The Dervish actually is allowed by the resource page as well...

Additional Resources wrote:

all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi, a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios), a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; the Varisian Pilgrim does not replace her 8th-level domain power with Blessing of the Harrow.

The Dervish is among the archetypes on those pages.

[Gelmir]

Sniggevert wrote:

Provos wrote:

Additional Resources available for use in pfs is available here.

From that info the Dawnflower Dervish is not allowed.

The Kensai and Bladebound appear to be allowed.

The Dervish actually is allowed by the resource page as well...

Additional Resources wrote:

all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi, a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios), a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; the Varisian Pilgrim does not replace her 8th-level domain power with Blessing of the Harrow.

The Dervish is among the archetypes on those pages.

Dawnflower Dervish is legal? Hot!

So! A one level dip into Dawflower Dervish gives me Dervish dancing for free at level 1 AND a +2/+2 combat bonus.

Then Magus for the next 19 levels.

Awesome. Very fun.

[Jiggy]

Gelmir wrote:

Then Magus for the next 19 levels.

You mean the next 11 levels.

Society stops at level 12.

[Provos]

Jiggy was correct read carefully:/

[Gelmir]

Provos wrote:

Jiggy was correct read carefully:/

I hate to be dense and slow. I just want to make sure I understand.

At the top of that link I see this:

"Below is a specific list of Paizo Publishing products and the equipment, traits, deities, spells, feats, and classes contained within that are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play."

Under Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic I see the following:

"Other: all magical tattoos on page 16, both the spellscar and outer rifts oracle mysteries on pages 30–31 (the spellscar oracle does not gain access to the eldritch scar, primal mastery, or trigger primal magic event revelations), all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi, a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios), a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; the Varisian Pilgrim does not replace her 8th-level domain power with Blessing of the Harrow."

That is stating that all archetypes on pages 32-43 are legal. Hence, Dawnflower Dervish is legal.

Or are you just referring to the 12 level cap for PFS? That I concede, but I am hoping to take the character into a friend group from 13-20.

Am I missing something? Thanks again for helping me clarify. I do appreciate it.

[Jiggy]

I don't think he was referring to your case in particular. I think he was agreeing with my general caution (in my first post) to read things carefully on that list.

I think that's what he meant, but I could be wrong.

[Provos]

I was commenting about Jiggy saying read carefull because I misread.

[Gelmir]

Provos wrote:

I was commenting about Jiggy saying read carefull because I misread.

Cool, guys. Thanks again!

Seems to me that taking 1 level of Dawnflower Dervish is a no brainer for the Dervish Magus build.

Simply a no brainer.

+You save a feat (don't need weapon finesse)
+You get +2/+2 to all scimitar attacks when dancing (awesome sauce)
+AND you start the game with 10 skills
+Some minor additional spell casting

All for the cost of:
-1 level of Magus.

Seems like a GREAT trade to me. That +2/+2 is huge.

By level 2, the Dawnflower/Magus(kensai) gets Arcane strike and Weapon Focus so WITHOUT spending arcana (and assuming a 18 Dex and 18 Int) he has a +8 to-hit and +7 to damage on TWO Attacks per turn (both at -2).

Pretty sweet!

[Jiggy]

Gelmir wrote:

By level 2, the Dawnflower/Magus(kensai) gets Arcane strike and Weapon Focus so WITHOUT spending arcana (and assuming a 18 Dex and 18 Int) he has a +8 to-hit and +7 to damage on TWO Attacks per turn (both at -2).

Pretty sweet!

I don't have the Dawnflower stats in front of me, but how are you getting 2 attacks? Or are you talking about Spell Combat? If you're talking about Spell Combat, have you made sure that it doesn't negate Dervish Dance? (I haven't ever really looked into it, but I could see an argument potentially arising.)

[Sniggevert]

Jiggy wrote:

Gelmir wrote:

By level 2, the Dawnflower/Magus(kensai) gets Arcane strike and Weapon Focus so WITHOUT spending arcana (and assuming a 18 Dex and 18 Int) he has a +8 to-hit and +7 to damage on TWO Attacks per turn (both at -2).

Pretty sweet!

I don't have the Dawnflower stats in front of me, but how are you getting 2 attacks? Or are you talking about Spell Combat? If you're talking about Spell Combat, have you made sure that it doesn't negate Dervish Dance? (I haven't ever really looked into it, but I could see an argument potentially arising.)

Dervish Dance is just a bardic performance. Maintaining it after startup is a free action, so no problem with Spell Combat.

[I nearly made my magus this route, but didn't like the later spell acquisition it gave.]

[Jiggy]

Sniggevert wrote:

Dervish Dance is just a bardic performance. Maintaining it after startup is a free action, so no problem with Spell Combat.

Dervish Dance is a feat which grants DEX to damage under certain circumstances. The Dawnflower Dervish's performance is a battle dance.

[Sniggevert]

Jiggy wrote:

Sniggevert wrote:

Dervish Dance is just a bardic performance. Maintaining it after startup is a free action, so no problem with Spell Combat.

Dervish Dance is a feat which grants DEX to damage under certain circumstances. The Dawnflower Dervish's performance is a battle dance.

My bad. They've got so many ways to talk about dervishes now a days I get the names mixed up sometimes.

Still, both (Dervish Dance and Spell Combat) just require the off hand to be free, so as long as that happens, it shouldn't be an issue...

[Jiggy]

Sniggevert wrote:

My bad. They've got so many ways to talk about dervishes now a days I get the names mixed up sometimes.

Yeah, tell me about it. Dervish Dance feat that anyone can take, Dervish Dancer archetype, Dawnflower Dervish archetype of the same base class as the Dervish Dancer...

Quote:

Still, both (Dervish Dance and Spell Combat) just require the off hand to be free, so as long as that happens, it shouldn't be an issue...

I'm inclined to agree, but it's something I'd advise being ready for disagreement on.

[Nickademus42]

I'd also agree since they both vaguely represent a generic fencing style.

I looked at this archetype when planning my dervish and totally missed the free feat. I thought the battle dance WAS the dervish dance for this one (like it is for Dervish Dancer from UC). Good thing I hadn't finished building him. Saves me a level of as well.

[Eric Clingenpeel]

Don't forget the dervish trait from the GtPFSOP.

[Gelmir]

Jiggy wrote:

Sniggevert wrote:

My bad. They've got so many ways to talk about dervishes now a days I get the names mixed up sometimes.

Yeah, tell me about it. Dervish Dance feat that anyone can take, Dervish Dancer archetype, Dawnflower Dervish archetype of the same base class as the Dervish Dancer...

Quote:

Still, both (Dervish Dance and Spell Combat) just require the off hand to be free, so as long as that happens, it shouldn't be an issue...

I'm inclined to agree, but it's something I'd advise being ready for disagreement on.

I find that highly unlikely. There is nothing in the rules to suggest so. It would take a DM who is going out of his way to piss on his players for there to be a problem.

[Nickademus42]

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:

Don't forget the dervish trait from the GtPFSOP.

I have that on my non-dervish fighter. I took other traits on my dervish that appealed to me more than +1 AC vs moving AoO.