Reincarnating to prolong life?


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Grand Lodge

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
It is not a stated fact, but one she believes. She thinks she will judge herself once no one is left. She'll close up the shop, turn out the lights and that will be that.

Was that line inspired by Neil Gaiman?


LazarX wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
It is not a stated fact, but one she believes. She thinks she will judge herself once no one is left. She'll close up the shop, turn out the lights and that will be that.
Was that line inspired by Neil Gaiman?

Yes, yes it was. But that is only fair as the Goddess herself was inspired by his version of Death as well.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
It is not a stated fact, but one she believes. She thinks she will judge herself once no one is left. She'll close up the shop, turn out the lights and that will be that. It is a "rule of fact" that when you die for you end up in the line. And time does not work the same in her realm so you are taking a chance you will be judged before you can be brought back.

This is true. Unless you get caught before you get there by a night hag, a soul bind or ray of hellfire spell, or similar. Might well be that any of those things will have to release you before you can reincarnate, though, in which case that might provide enough of a time window for you to make it to the waiting line by the court anyway. What's your take on witches using the forced reincarnation hex on themselves, by the way? It effectively kills and reincarnates as a single effect.

seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Also Golarion takes place in a very realistic space.I can not recall if it is the same one earth is in, but there are space ships and stars and even stars burn out and die in time.

Sure, but you can create new planes. Even mortals, though those end up pretty small.

seekerofshadowlight wrote:

A note:

Although killing gods is out of the reach of mortals, they have killed each other before and things live out in the black that can both kill them and twist them.

Yes. I would love it if Paizo ever made a Dark Tapestry sourcebook, but I worry they probably never will, fearing that it would take the mystery out of it...

EDIT: Another nitpick. It seems Tar-Baphon actually did kill a deity (Aroden's herald before Iomedeae) while not being a deity himself. There may be details there which I am unaware of, though...


The witch hex, same issue. You were dead. It matters not how long you happen to have been dead on the mortal plane. It could have been weeks, days, seconds or eons on the other side.

Every time you die you roll the dice. so no sane critter keeps rolling if they do not have to.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
The witch hex, same issue. You were dead. It matters not how long you happen to have been dead on the mortal plane. It could have been weeks, days, seconds or eons on the other side.

This goes for the Boneyard, yes. The Astral which the River of Souls pass to get there, though, while having the timeless trait, doesn't seem to have a different speed of effective time than the material plane. It seems to me that there might well be a time window during which the soul has departed, but not yet reached the Boneyard.


Witch: I'm getting on in years so it's time for a fresh start. I use forced reincarnation on myself. Maybe I'll end up as a dwarf. That could be fun.

GM: Pharasma interrupts your forced reincarnation in the middle of the hex and judges your soul.

Witch: But it all happens as the same action!

GM: Tough luck.


She did not interrupt, you just died and didn't come back is all.


Analysis wrote:
seekerofshadowlight wrote:
Every thing dies. No one even the gods can put it off forever.
Not to be polemic, but merely out of interest: has this actually been stated by the designers or in the sourcebooks? Clearly it is possible for a god to die, as gods have in fact died. But is it stated anywhere that, in the Pathfinder setting, it is impossible for a god not to eventually die?

Actually, despite seekerofshadowlight's statement that it's his opinion, James has stated that this is effectively exactly what will happen. He's said that Pharasma will know when it happens when she shows up in the queue to judge herself; sadly I don't know where this link is, as I wasn't part of that thread when it was active, but someone else linked it once. Also, at the end of the Inner Sea World Guide (or perhaps on the Golaripedia or similar, I'm not sure) it talks about Groteus who's the deity of the end of everything. The prophecy goes that, at the end of everything, he will descend from above the Boneyard and do something to it and Pharasma (it's unknown what, but generally thought to be unpleasant), and then go on to pack the dust of this universe away for the next one. It's unclear if all the planes will end at that time, or just the majority, or what, exactly, will happen.

I don't have links now, I'll try to find them later, unless someone else does, or you manage to look it up yourself... or my laziness or general business causes me to forget! >.<

The Exchange

If you kept growing old and reincarnating into a young body, then grow old and keep repeating would you keep getting the stat bumps in mental stuff over and over?


I would say no really. Its not about your body at all, but about the mind adjusting> I feel you should only have he mental adjustments happen once.


From going through searches of Pharasma-related James Jacobs posts, I will concede the point on everything dying, if nothing else then with the universe, as he has imagined the setting. There may be opportunities for continued existence after that in one form or another, but since that is a multiversal apocalypse, it's really a very remote question at this point.

I did, however, find an interesting post concerning the time it takes before souls arrive at the Boneyard:

James Jacobs wrote:

The length of time it takes for a soul to complete its journey and be judged and sent on to its final reward/punishment varies, because the ability to resurrect dead folks with spells varies. Put another way, the time that it takes a soul to complete its trip is such that the time NEVER impacts the casting of raise dead, resurrection, or true resurrection.

In my mind, though, here's more details.

Raise dead can restore someone that's been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. That's how long it takes a soul to reach the Boneyard; once a soul reaches the Boneyard, said soul cannot be brought back with raise dead. In fact, the closer the soul gets to the Boneyard, the tougher it is to call them back (and thus, you have to be higher level to do this). So the answer to "how long does a dead soul take to get to the Boneyard) is "A number of days equal to the highest caster level for raise dead in your campaign."

Reincarnate is a bit more lenient, at one week per level. In this case, you'd be able to restore to life someone who died whose soul has reached the Boneyard, but hasn't yet "fallen into line" to be judged. A new soul in the Boneyard spends a bit of time wandering, in other words.

Resurrection and true resurrection lets you restore someone who's been dead 10 years per level. That means you can call back someone who's soul is in the line to be judged, plucking them away before they get to Pharasma.

Beyond this limit, only a god or some huge exception to the rule will let you bring someone back to life.

From this perspective, it doesn't seem to me that successive reincarnations would be at risk from intervention from Pharasma. In fact, I get the image that, as written, she is uninterested in preventing immortality schemes as she sees them as futile, regardless of what she does or does not do. See for example this post:

James Jacobs wrote:
Pharasma knows there's no such thing as immortality. Being eternally young or beating death via old age only increasingly ensures you'll die of something else eventually. Just might take longer. But Pharasma's more patient than anything else, so that's that.


It is not about making her come look for you. It is random chance every time you die that you do not get judged before you come back. You can be dead for a very long time or a few seconds. which is why I called it a crap shoot most sane folks would not take as a given. At some point luck is gonna run out for you. The more often you die, the more often you are taken a chance.


seekerofshadowlight wrote:
It is not about making her come look for you. It is random chance every time you die that you do not get judged before you come back. You can be dead for a very long time or a few seconds. which is why I called it a crap shoot most sane folks would not take as a given. At some point luck is gonna run out for you. The more often you die, the more often you are taken a chance.

In that case, you interpret the post I quoted above differently than I, concerning whether that random chance depends on the time that has passed or not. Which you certainly can, of course.

Scarab Sages

Clone wrote:


This spell makes an inert duplicate of a creature. If the original individual has been slain, its soul immediately transfers to the clone, creating a replacement (provided that the soul is free and willing to return). The original's physical remains, should they still exist, become inert and cannot thereafter be restored to life. If the original creature has reached the end of its natural life span (that is, it has died of natural causes), any cloning attempt fails.
Immortality wrote:


Prerequisite: You must be at least a 20th-level Wizard to select this discovery.

Benefit: You discover a cure for aging, and from this point forward you take no penalty to your physical ability scores from advanced age. If you are already taking such penalties, they are removed at this time. This is an extraordinary ability.

With both of these combined, a wizards soul will never enter the Boneyard. As there is no limitation on the placement of a wizards clones, he could effectively maintain copies in dozens of planes of existence spread across the multiverse. (Immortal wizards don't generally die of natural causes.)

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