I don't know about you, but sometimes I find it very difficult to stop myself from going searching through the threads to find out more about the AP I'm playing in.
Especially when (like now) our whole groups seems to be getting pretty frustrated. I find myself wanting to figure out if we really are being that idiotic.
In the begining of Carrion Crown currently. We seem to continually be on the very edge of a TPK and the GM is fudging things to help us live. We are trying to investigate and ask questions so we can properly plan. The GM is reading the descriptions and responses straight out of the book. However, we seem to always make the wrong choice of where to go, what to do next, which spells to prep, what to expect, etc...
I know there is supposed to be a 'horror story' feel to this AP, but for me is is more of a 'what the heck was that' feel.
Ok, sorry for the rant. I feel a little better now.
And no, I won't really go looking for info I shouldn't have. {I will still think about it though...}
Why would you ever want to ruin it for yourself?
You've already got the AP player's guide.
Ideally, the GM should always be willing to foreshadow or even just drop hints outright about what's coming up. But if there's something more I can say to dissuade you:
a) what you will learn from exploring the forums is something about the AP, but APs are really long and varied, and you won't likely find anything relevant to your problems without churning up a LOT of other info
b) most of the GM-side content is laced with big huge secrets. It would be hard not to spoil the whole campaign by looking for some tiny thing.
In the end, just don't.
I'm going to take the exact opposite side. If you want to search for hints, search for hints. If you want to read the entire AP, just read the entire AP. Sure, you are going to spoil some surprises for yourself. So what? Some of us like knowing what our Christmas presents are, so we can eagerly anticipate them. Some of us like to know what to expect in a game, so we can plan our characters around it and possibly make for a more compelling, logical story.
This is especially true in this case, where the DM seems to be having trouble conveying to the party what to do. I'm not saying you should read the AP and then immediately jump in with optimal answers to ever problem, but having a general outline of what is supposed to be happening can help keep everything together, and prevent frustration. So long as you keep in mind that the point of the game is to have an interesting adventure and not "win," it isn't the end of the world.
Alternatively, you are just being murdered by the fact Haunting of Harrowstone is a really murderous adventure. Especially if you aren't super familiar with haunt rules.
I (paradoxically) support Mort, also, if that is what you need to do to have fun.
If you DO cheat like that, though, try to help out your fellow players. Definitely do not use it to "win" over them. I can see that being exceptionally irritating.
|
Have you conveyed your frustrations to your GM?
Usually the first step to solving in-game frustrations is to talk to your GM and see if he's aware of the extent of the problem.
Perhaps he needs to take more prep-time to thoroughly read the adventure and lay down some serious foreshadowing. Perhaps he needs to become more blatant when it comes to clues, and ease up the DCs of knowledge or Perception checks to reach appropriate conclusions.
If you talk to your GM first in a reasonable way, you might find your game improves.
I won't cheat myself of the adventure, that was just frustration talking. I wouldn't enjoy it very much after that.
We have talked the GM and he is aware of our frustration and is trying to work with us on it.
He doesn't like to just tell us "don't do that" and I agree with him.
But last session we went upstair in the burned out prison right off the bat and encountered the headless horseman.
1) Way out of our CR range but the module says we should have known not to go up there. Thinking back over the conversations and descriptions/text he read, I can see that. But we actually came away from the conversations with 'it gets worse as you go down into the dungeon.' It did not seem clear to any of the 4 of us that we weren't ready for what was on the top. He had it fighting stupid to stay away from a TPK. But we still had 2 into far negatives and the other 2 with almost nothing left.
2) The creature itself. Once we realized we were in a fight we couldn't win, it seemed like we were stuck. It was too fast to run from and we didn't know it might not chase us if we didn't stay on the road. The GM eventually had to tell us we had to be lucky enough to take it into far negative with one hit from the holy weapon. If it just went a little negative it would reform and come back at us. Otherwise the only way to be sure of permanently killing it was to throw our only holy weapon on the path and trick it into riding over the holy weapon. How is anyone supposed to guess that? If I fought it a hundred times it would never occur to me to throw my best weapon into the dirt at a particular point then get it to charge me over the weapon.
Prior to that we had the fight at the town hall. The AP seemed to assume the party would have the 'create water' spell prepared, have a bunch of water on hand, and/or other things to fight the fire with.
I don't think I have ever prepared the spell create water except when in a desert. None of us thought it was appropriate to go to the town meeting with all our gear including backpacks which might contain flasks of water.
The AP (at least as described to us since I haven't read it) seems to be expecting the group to do a bunch of unreasonble things and know/guess things that we have no way to know and are unlikely to guess. Maybe we just aren't getting good enough checks to discover things. But we actually have quite a few knowledge skills and someone almost always rolls pretty well (usually not my wizard for some reason).
Like I said, I won't cheat that was just frustration talking.
I believe he is planning to make the clues/hints more obvious.
I've got to say, I've played through the first book of Carrion Crown and nothing my group encountered in that book matches what you're describing.
So either my DM took pity on us and modified the encounter (which is possible and sometimes necessary) or your DM could be misinterpreting things.
Apart from the specific encounter, sometimes a group isn't quite ready for a certain type of game and it's necessary for the DM to smooth the passage somewhat. There's nothing to stop the DM from providing additional information via the NPCs, research or whatever. There's also nothing to stop the DM from providing handy items that'll help rebalance the encounter to fit the party's abilities. But it is up to the DM to be willing to make those sorts of modifications.
Personally, Carrion Crown has been one of the most enjoyable games I've played in a long time. I can't say how much my DM is modifying it for our group to make it that way but I do know that great fun can be had. Reading up on the spoiler information in the forums or reading the AP itself would have ruined the fun for me.
Edit to add: If getting that sort of spoiler information is necessary to have fun then there's something wrong with either the group or the DM and a conversation should be had.
Use your PC's Knowledge skills to glean information..This gives the GM a handy way of slipping vital information without it being too obvious about it.
Your Headless Horseman example Know: Religion should give you the methods of getting rid of it or Know: Local to remember some old wives' tale or even Perform: Sing to remember a rousing song about a similar haunt
I have read the book, and your DM is running a totally altered version of it. Only one of the three things you described is in the actual module, and it isn't the CR10 haunt (why would something like that be upstairs, anyway?). It supposed to be a level 1 adventure, after all. Either you guys are running it at much higher level and your DM made a bad judgment call on what challenges to add, or he tossed the equivalent of a dragon fight at a level 1 or 2 party.
Also, on the one thing that actually is in the module...
This, which I pinched from the CCC thread, is what I gave to the player of the cleric in my game before they got to Ravengro
With the knockings of restless spirits erupting around us, I raised my hand and snapped my fingers thrice, loudly. The raps paused, then responded back in unison. As we called out questions to the dead lord of Montalov Manor, the knocks responded, and we began to unravel the mystery of Arno Montalov’s murder. Suddenly the temperature dropped to a deadly chill, and a pair of spectral hands seized my throat in an iron grip, just as they had seized the estate’s lord some eighty years before.
—Joseffy Cagliosamo, retired ghost finder
While decrepit asylums and rotting ancestral estates are the most obvious places for haunts, folklore is filled with ghostly encounters along lonely country roads and fog-shrouded moors, and even thriving inns and taverns are reliable receptacles for supernatural presences. In short, any location where unjust death, murder, and deceit have taken place is fair game for unquiet spirits. – Rudolph Van Richten, famed Varisian Vampire hunter
Haunts are quite difficult to detect, since they cannot be observed until they actually manifest. Luckily, the perceptive hunter will notice some change in the environment, whether their skin prickles due to a sudden change of temperature, or perhaps an odd smell suddenly wafts into the room, that will warn them and give them a moment to act. Professor Petros Lorrimar, “Famous Hauntings of Vieland”
Luckily an indoor (ruins or otherwise) haunt’s size is usually limited to the room in which it is located. More disturbing are the haunts of outdoor areas, which can be of truly frightful size and preponderance. It must be noted, however, that even an entire building may comprise a single haunt. - Ailson Kindler, “Memories”
Haunts hate the living, and it seems as if they can detect nearby life sources. The thing then triggers as a result of the approach of or contact with living beings. I postulate that some haunts may be tricked by effects such as “hide from undead” or perhaps “invisibility.” - Van Richten
The effects of a haunt are as varied as the effects in a Master Wizards grimoire. A haunt might cause a room to explode into f lames, infuse a chamber with fear, or even frighten a poor victim to death . There are recorded cases of smashing walls, icy chills, fungal growth, and much worse. – Yaoveh Iddusia, “On Borrowed Lives”
Much to our dismay we discovered that a neutralized haunt is not actually destroyed, and can manifest again after a period of time. To destroy a haunt, a specific action must be taken in the region to end the effect forever (such as burning a haunted house to the ground or burying the bones of the slaves who died on the site to create the haunt). This specific act is different for every haunt , although a number of nearby haunts often share the same destruction act. – Orpeum Kindler, “The Phantom of August House”
Tobin’s Spirit Guide described some of the more common haunts-
Rapping Spirit - The most common haunts are rapping spirits: unquiet dead with just enough substance to produce cacophonous knocking and loud bumps in the night.
Slamming Portal - Mysteriously locked or slamming doors usually indicate a supernatural presence protesting intrusion, and serve as stern reminders that explorers are unwelcome in the realm of haunts. These frivolous spirits are fond of not only locking the living out of rooms, but also locking them in, usually with deadly dungeon denizens.
Orbs - Common signs of ghostly infestation, these sentient spirits manifest as a lazily drifting cloud of translucent, glowing orbs. Scholars speculate that they represent minor animal spirits, ghosts who have faded into the ether with time, or even the souls of children.
Cold Spot - Cold spots occur at the sites of the traumatic deaths of creatures that lack the psychic fortitude to persist as true ghosts. These common supernatural indicators are known to roam within large complexes, continuously seeking relief from the chill of death by drawing warmth from the living.
Choking Hands - Whether lingering embodiments of lynched serial stranglers or the traumatic psychic manifestation of a hysterical public, these dangerous spectres lurk in dark alleyways seeking vengeance on the living.
Mad Monk - Often found haunting ruined monasteries, apparitions of monks are among the most commonly reported haunts. Stories of the enigmatic spirits are conflicted, as some report offers of chalices of healing elixir, while others tell of poisonous betrayal from the seemingly benevolent ghost’s gift.
Baleful Apparition - Bile seeps up from floorboards while horrific images of bloody claws or the gasping faces of drowned victims fade into view and back out again. Such are the haunts that infest torture chambers, ruined castles, and secluded, swampy groves.
Restless Spirit - Mysteriously moving furniture, flying objects and invisible attacks are common indications of haunts in noble villas and dank dungeons alike. Restless spirits typically manifest to protest the intrusion of mortals onto forgotten gravesites or the sacred grounds of a lost indigenous people.
Ghastly Whispers - Those driven insane by delving into dark and terrible secrets, as well as the ghosts of mad wizards who journeyed too deeply into the black essence of the Dark Tapestry, often manifest such haunts after departing the mortal realm.
I have read the book, and your DM is running a totally altered version of it. Only one of the three things you described is in the actual module, and it isn't the CR10 haunt (why would something like that be upstairs, anyway?). It supposed to be a level 1 adventure, after all. Either you guys are running it at much higher level and your DM made a bad judgment call on what challenges to add, or he tossed the equivalent of a dragon fight at a level 1 or 2 party.
Also, on the one thing that actually is in the module...** spoiler omitted **
Agreed...it seems like your GM didn't want you to go there so stuck a nasty to stop you.
Without getting the other side of the story it seems to me that the issue isn't with the AP but the GM...That maybe unfair but that is my opinion from the evidence...
I have read the book, and your DM is running a totally altered version of it. Only one of the three things you described is in the actual module...
Hmmm... odd... He appeared to be reading straight from the book.
Hmmm... odd... He appeared to be reading straight from the book.
Putting out the fires is supposed to be a DC 12 combat maneuver check. Water would have given a +4, but even without that a low-level wizard could still make the check 60-70% of the time. It is still a very challenging encounter, though. It is entirely possible you folks were just unlucky.
I shouldn't be making too many judgments without all the information. But based on what you have said, I'd seriously recommend a chat with your GM. If he is tossing in stuff 9 levels over you, you can expect a lot more frustration and death to be coming your way.
|
I am a player in Carrion Crown (so technically I probably shouldn’t be reading this thread ...), but I have read the article on haunts ... the one you describe is far FAR beyond what a first (or even third) level party should be able to handle, assuming your GM is running it as described. I very much doubt that it is a set (or even random) encounter in the module.
As for the other one
I think the solution here is not to read spoilers on the boards, but to talk with you GM about how to run the game so that everyone can have fun.
I sympathize a bit with the original poster, although I'm probably more tempted to read about an adventure path before I start playing it (in order to get a feeling for what public opinion is).
I have been in the situation where the party has met an almost unbeatable enemy and I've questioned whether it's something that the GM added personally. But in that case, I'll just diplomatically ask the GM (usually the answer has been "no, it's not in the original module").