You know what I like? Dragon riders. I always thought the idea of dragon cavalry was cool. However, D&D/Pathfinder dragons do not lend themselves toward this at all. So, I created a new type of dragon that does lend itself to dragon cavalry. Have a look and tell me what you think.
Dragonette
XP 1,200 CR4
N Large Dragon
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, Perception +8
DEFENSE
AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 15 (+3 Dex, +6 natural, –1 size)
hp 34 (4d10+12)
Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +4
Immunities Dragon Traits
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee bite +7 (1d6+3), 2 talons +6 (1d6+3)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks: breath weapon (30-ft. cone or 60-ft. line, 2d6 damage, Reflex DC 15 for half, usable every 2d6 rounds), pounce, rake (2 claws +7, 1d4+3)
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8
Base Atk +4; CMB +8; CMD 21 (25 vs. trip)
Feats Iron Will, Skill Focus (Perception), Skill Focus (Acrobatics), Skill Focus (Fly), Weapon Focus (bite)
Skills Acrobatics +10, Fly +10, Perception +8; Racial Modifiers +4 Acrobatics, +4 Perception
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Breath Weapon: All dragonettes have a breath weapon. Depending on the individual dragonette, this can be either a 30 foot cone or a 60 foot line. Some dragonettes do cold damage, some do acid, some do electricity, and some do fire. None do more than one type of damage. Save DC is 15 for a 4 HD dragonette, this ability is useable every 2d6 rounds, and it does 1d6 points of damage for every 2 hit dice the dragonette has.
ECOLOGY
Environment any
Organization solitary, pair, or clutch (8–12)
Treasure incidental
Dragonettes are a lesser form of dragon, lacking the intelligence and vast magical abilities of their true dragon cousins. They weigh in at between 450 and 550 pounds and measure 7 1/2 to 8 1/2 feet from tip to tail, and resemble true dragons heavily. Their scales can be of any color, and some dragonettes are more than one color. A dragonette's coloration is not connected to it's breath weapon. Dragonettes are no more intelligent than animals, and are carnivorous, preferring to hunt grazing animals. They will go after livestock, which brings them into conflict with ranchers and farmers at times. Dragonettes mate for life, and beget 1d6 eggs at a time. They are not particularly aggressive towards anything that isn't prey, but will fight ferociously if threatened. They can be domesticated fairly easily, and are as loyal to their masters as dogs, which makes them highly popular as flying mounts. Militaries in particular are very fond of them as mounts for cavalry.
Before it can be ridden in combat, a dragonette requires practice bearing the weight of its rider. 6 weeks of practice and a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check is sufficient for a dragonette to be comfortable with its burden. Dragonettes can carry up to 300 pounds as a light load, 600 pounds as a medium load, and 900 pounds as a heavy load. Riding a dragonette requires an exotic saddle.
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The base dragon-mount you've got here might be a little too good, but it's hard to pin that down, since everybody has different wants and needs for this sort of thing, and what you've got here might be *perfect* for the role you are seeking to fill.
The game has long lacked, IMO, the sorts of dragons often seen in fantasy novels or movies (or even quasi-sci-fi novels like the Dragonriders of Pern**) that aren't crazy supernatural, but more like 'magical beasts' with super-abilities like 'able to fly, in wanton disregard of physics' and not magical fear auras or sorcerer spellcasting abilities.
I personally want;
A dragonoid 'mount' similar to the dragonnel that is more like a winged quadrupedal wyvern without a stinger. Advanced versions might have breath weapons, but they would be single target breath weapons and only be usable a number of times per day equal to the creatures HD or Con modifier or something. (A breath weapon usable potentially dozens or hundreds of times per day, every X rounds or X minutes, is, IMO, over-powered for something that will end up under the control of a PC.) Flightless versions, or more-intelligent-than-normal versions (like, Int 6, instead of Int 2, not human-level intelligence) could be different options. These sorts of dragon-mounts wouldn't necessarily be immune to whatever their breath weapon consists of (although a certain level of energy resistance to that energy type would be appropriate), just as my skin isn't immune to my stomach acid.
A familiar/improved familiar series of little flying lizards that may or may not be able to spit a glob of acidic phlegm or hot coals or chilling fluid, doing damage more like an acid splash or ray of frost. Pseudodragons never cut it for me.
These would be different species, since I wouldn't want the familiar sized critters to eventually grow up to size large or huge, although I do like the idea of the mounts starting out around dog-sized, and a 'dragonrider' perhaps having to go through a few levels of working alongside a dog or big cat sized animal companion that is not yet usable as a mount, bonding with the creature as a fighting companion before it finally matures to the size necessary to serve as a mount.
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** Yeah, the dragons of Pern were telepathic and could teleport and do other 'crazy supernatural stuff,' so that was a terrible example, I know. :)
The base dragon-mount you've got here might be a little too good, but it's hard to pin that down, since everybody has different wants and needs for this sort of thing, and what you've got here might be *perfect* for the role you are seeking to fill.
The game has long lacked, IMO, the sorts of dragons often seen in fantasy novels or movies (or even quasi-sci-fi novels like the Dragonriders of Pern**) that aren't crazy supernatural, but more like 'magical beasts' with super-abilities like 'able to fly, in wanton disregard of physics' and not magical fear auras or sorcerer spellcasting abilities.
I personally want;
A dragonoid 'mount' similar to the dragonnel that is more like a winged quadrupedal wyvern without a stinger. Advanced versions might have breath weapons, but they would be single target breath weapons and only be usable a number of times per day equal to the creatures HD or Con modifier or something. (A breath weapon usable potentially dozens or hundreds of times per day, every X rounds or X minutes, is, IMO, over-powered for something that will end up under the control of a PC.) Flightless versions, or more-intelligent-than-normal versions (like, Int 6, instead of Int 2, not human-level intelligence) could be different options. These sorts of dragon-mounts wouldn't necessarily be immune to whatever their breath weapon consists of (although a certain level of energy resistance to that energy type would be appropriate), just as my skin isn't immune to my stomach acid.
A familiar/improved familiar series of little flying lizards that may or may not be able to spit a glob of acidic phlegm or hot coals or chilling fluid, doing damage more like an acid splash or ray of frost. Pseudodragons never cut it for me.
These would be different species, since I wouldn't want the familiar sized critters to eventually grow up to size large or huge, although I do like the idea of the mounts starting out around dog-sized, and a 'dragonrider' perhaps having to go through a few levels of working alongside...
These are interesting ideas. I particularly appreciate the advice about breath weapons.
I do intend this as a separate species from true dragons. Those crazy supernatural, intelligent things are still around. These animalistic things are just a lot more common.
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First thing I notice is there is no standard companion stat block. If they are going to be used as a mount by paladins and cavilers they will need one. I'm with set setting the number of times they can use the breath weapon per day is a good idea. Setting it to Con mod / Day is over all the best. So when you do the companion stat block it keeps it from being used xx/day because there going to increase there HD. When doing the companion stat block remember to list how to get the save for the breath weapon.
I like it. As Set said though, the breath weapon is a little too strong. Maybe make it a splash weapon, dealing 2d6 to primary target and 1d6 to secondary targets?
Check out the dragonrider on d20pfsrd.com. And for the love of God, read it three times and think about it before you post about it. It is a subtle class.
Should I make Dragonettes omnivorous? I have them as carnivorous, and a carnivorous beast of burden could be... problematic. They will consume a lot of meat, and meat isn't the cheapest food stuff out there. This could cause supply problems in a military campaign.
Check out the dragonrider on d20pfsrd.com. And for the love of God, read it three times and think about it before you post about it. It is a subtle class.
I'll look at it.
You have been heard. The breath weapon shall be nerfed for the sake of game balance.
I'll have a companion stat block up tomorrow for Cavaliers and Paladins.
Should I make Dragonettes omnivorous? I have them as carnivorous, and a carnivorous beast of burden could be... problematic. They will consume a lot of meat, and meat isn't the cheapest food stuff out there. This could cause supply problems in a military campaign.
Anyone capable of keeping a CR 4 creature should be able to get enough meat for it. Remember that even a 4th level expert has 1650 gp in equipment - that's 165 cows, or 550 pigs.
Should I make Dragonettes omnivorous? I have them as carnivorous, and a carnivorous beast of burden could be... problematic. They will consume a lot of meat, and meat isn't the cheapest food stuff out there. This could cause supply problems in a military campaign.Anyone capable of keeping a CR 4 creature should be able to get enough meat for it. Remember that even a 4th level expert has 1650 gp in equipment - that's 165 cows, or 550 pigs.
On a one-on-one level, yes, it works. The issue is if you have whole regiments of the things during a prolonged war. The demands of the military will eventually outstrip supply.
Then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Food supply difficulties could add a nice bit of realism to a war story. Carnivores it is.
On a one-on-one level, yes, it works. The issue is if you have whole regiments of the things during a prolonged war. The demands of the military will eventually outstrip supply.
Then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Food supply difficulties could add a nice bit of realism to a war story. Carnivores it is.
I think if you should have whole regiments of them, you should probably tone them down a bit. This, to me, is still a powerful creature - compare it to a CR 2 hippogriff which costs between 500 for an untrained baby to 5000 for a fully combat trained specimen. Compare that to a hired trained warrior which cost about 3sp per day (say 5 sp to account for being far from home in an army).
So for the price of a single full-trained hippogriff (which is considerably weaker than a dragonette) you can have a hundred trained soldiers for 500 days. And they'll eat considerably more. :)
Now, of course this doesn't have to be true in your campaign - I'm just saying this from my perspective considering the rest of the core books as they are in a fairly "generic" campaign. I have a hard time seeing a military getting hundreds of these, unless the army is numbering in the tens of thousands, and in that case, feeding the dragons won't really be the biggest logistical issue. :)
A squad of 10 highly trained dragon riders as the king's personal guard, or as a special ops group? Now, that I can see.
On a one-on-one level, yes, it works. The issue is if you have whole regiments of the things during a prolonged war. The demands of the military will eventually outstrip supply.
Then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Food supply difficulties could add a nice bit of realism to a war story. Carnivores it is.
I think if you should have whole regiments of them, you should probably tone them down a bit. This, to me, is still a powerful creature - compare it to a CR 2 hippogriff which costs between 500 for an untrained baby to 5000 for a fully combat trained specimen. Compare that to a hired trained warrior which cost about 3sp per day (say 5 sp to account for being far from home in an army).
So for the price of a single full-trained hippogriff (which is considerably weaker than a dragonette) you can have a hundred trained soldiers for 500 days. And they'll eat considerably more. :)
Now, of course this doesn't have to be true in your campaign - I'm just saying this from my perspective considering the rest of the core books as they are in a fairly "generic" campaign. I have a hard time seeing a military getting hundreds of these, unless the army is numbering in the tens of thousands, and in that case, feeding the dragons won't really be the biggest logistical issue. :)
A squad of 10 highly trained dragon riders as the king's personal guard, or as a special ops group? Now, that I can see.
Yea, I was considering dropping the CR so cavaliers can get them easily. I want dragon cavalry to be common. Should I go with CR 1/2, 1, or 2?
Why would a dragons, as opposed to a drakes, allow others to ride them?
Why would a dragons, as opposed to a drakes, allow others to ride them?
They are a lesser form of dragon with the intelligence score of animals (2). They are no different than horses in this regard.
You know what I like? Dragon riders. I always thought the idea of dragon cavalry was cool. However, D&D/Pathfinder dragons do not lend themselves toward this at all. So, I created a new type of dragon that does lend itself to dragon cavalry. Have a look and tell me what you think.
** spoiler omitted **...
Let's see here then...
Higher AC than the normal for CR4.
Lower HP than normal, due mostly to not using the normal dragon hit dice.
Roughly average to-hit.
So far so goo-- WAIT POUNCE?! AND RAKE?! nonononononononono Don't do that. Pounce alone should increase the CR of a monster by one or two. It's just that good. And when combined with Rake? Even better.
Breath Weapons around that CR are either 15' cone, or 30' line. Adjust that.
Take either this guy or this guy. Make them Large, and be done with it. Large will probably increase their CR by 1, to 3.
Or better yet, just use this table. Use the stats in the 2nd class level row. Only use dragons whose Focus entry is a move action or less, and only use the starting statistics. Increase those dragons to Large size.
And bam. One of the people Paizo often turns to write rules for PFRPG has already done the balancing for you.
You know what I like? Dragon riders. I always thought the idea of dragon cavalry was cool. However, D&D/Pathfinder dragons do not lend themselves toward this at all. So, I created a new type of dragon that does lend itself to dragon cavalry. Have a look and tell me what you think.
** spoiler omitted **...
Let's see here then...
Higher AC than the normal for CR4.
Lower HP than normal, due mostly to not using the normal dragon hit dice.
Roughly average to-hit.
So far so goo-- WAIT POUNCE?! AND RAKE?! nonononononononono Don't do that. Pounce alone should increase the CR of a monster by one or two. It's just that good. And when combined with Rake? Even better.
Breath Weapons around that CR are either 15' cone, or 30' line. Adjust that.
Take either this guy or this guy. Make them Large, and be done with it. Large will probably increase their CR by 1, to 3.
Or better yet, just use this table. Use the stats in the 2nd class level row. Only use dragons whose Focus entry is a move action or less, and only use the starting statistics. Increase those dragons to Large size.
And bam. One of the people Paizo often turns to write rules for PFRPG has already done the balancing for you.
Thanks for the suggestions. It's getting nerfed to CR 1/2, 1, or 2 so that it can serve as a Paladin/Cavalier mount.
actually, you just have to stat the companion block comparable to something else, like the roc. The creature CR is just for NPCs and companionless classes.
actually, you just have to stat the companion block comparable to something else, like the roc. The creature CR is just for NPCs and companionless classes.
True. Going thru the list of animal companions by Paizo, there are no Flying animal companions that start out Large. The ones that can fly and start out medium all become Large at level 7.
I guess just giving a very weak breath weapon and immunity to sleep and paralysis to a Roc would work.
But that's at odds with her desire for level 1 cavaliers to be flying around on dragons, due to the precedent Paizo set that being able to ride Large flying mounts is a level 7 ability.
Should I make Dragonettes omnivorous? I have them as carnivorous, and a carnivorous beast of burden could be... problematic. They will consume a lot of meat, and meat isn't the cheapest food stuff out there. This could cause supply problems in a military campaign.
Griffins are carnivorous (or should be, they're made up of two peak predators). And if it's for a military campaign, that's part of the trade-off in my mind.
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This is my take on the same monster using the light horse statblock and upgrade it to magical beast. It just looks dragonish but its a magical beast.
made it's breath weapon into line only for simplicity sake lowered the dmg to 1d6 added how to calculate the DC for it.
Dragonette
XP 600 CR2
N Large Magical beast
Init +2; Senses: darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, Perception +9
DEFENSE
AC 14, touch 11, flat-footed 12 (+3 Dex, +3 natural, –1 size)
hp 21 (3d10+6)
Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +3
OFFENSE
Speed 30 ft., fly 80 ft. (average)
Melee bite +7 (1d6+3), 2 talons +4 (1d4+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks: breath weapon (30-ft. line 1d6 damage, Reflex DC 14 for half, 3/day)
STATISTICS
Str 16, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 8
Base Atk +3; CMB +6; CMD 18 (23 vs. trip)
Feats Endurance, Multiattack, Skill Focus Acrobatics
Skills Acrobatics +9, Fly +10, Perception +10
Racial Modifiers: +4 Fly, +4 Perception
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Breath Weapon: All dragonettes have a breath weapon. Depending on the individual dragonette the element may be different (Cold, Fire, Electric or Acid). The breath weapon is a 30 foot line. Save DC is 10 + Constitution modifier + 1/2 HD, this ability is useable number of times per day equal to their Constitution modifier.
This is my take on the same monster using the light horse statblock and upgrade it to magical beast. It just looks dragonish but its a magical beast.
made it's breath weapon into line only for simplicity sake lowered the dmg to 1d6 added how to calculate the DC for it.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks ^_^.
Would you consider it appropriate for a level 1 Cavalier?
Can I use it in the campaign setting's PDF (I plan to share it so I can run PbPs with it on this site)?
I'm dotting this. One of the people that wants to play in my game wants to make a dragonrider like character. They've read to many Dragonriders of Pern books, lol.
Flying at 1st level is incredibly strong anyway, and very, very hard to balance - many opponents won't have any ability to counter it. I'd not allow a flying mount at level one in a campaign, period. It might be more appropriate to start the campaign a little bit above first level (say, 3rd or 4th), or not give flying at 1st level, rather something like glide or a jump bonus due to the wings.
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There is precedent for flying mounts available as early as 1st level, if one plays a halfling, gnome, goblin or kobold druid with a pteranodon* or roc animal companion.
But I've never seen anyone want to fly so badly at 1st level as to actually choose that option. :)
*And the pteranodon is only technically an option, since it's got such a low carrying capacity.
I'd keep a flying dragon mount, usable by a medium sized character, limited to something one gets at 4th or 7th level, myself, with the dragon-mount being medium sized until then.
Should I make Dragonettes omnivorous? I have them as carnivorous, and a carnivorous beast of burden could be... problematic. They will consume a lot of meat, and meat isn't the cheapest food stuff out there. This could cause supply problems in a military campaign.
In roman times a knight (or equestrian) was the class of people who could afford to pay for their own horse. Clearly in a fantasy world there would be another class above that, those who could afford their own dragonette.
Of course, as Crassus says, you aren't really rich unless you can afford your own private army.
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Very interesting. You may want to take a look at the Drakkensteed from 3.5's Dragon Magic. They're similar to what you want to do here.
Yes I know got a bit of an idea from there.
Well in a NORMAL setting this creature should be available until level 4 or 6, but this is going to be basically the substitute for a warhorse so it is not an exclusive thingy so far and available to many.
You can use my version I don't mind I just lowered it to a CR2 (Strong one at that)
Now the stat block I gave you is for a normal dragonette not a animal companion I will try to come up with something, but will probably lose it's breath weapon until level 4 and maybe another goodie which could be for balancing reason for those hardcore by the book or else... It can lose flying until level 4 also just keeping some sort of gliding ability as long as it's not carrying heavy or medium load.