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hI attended NeonCon this past weekend. Disappointing.
I spent $50 for the ticket - only three of the tables I was set to play actually went off. I played a few other games - board games and even Shadowrun. But that was because the games I'd registered for didn't have the attendees.
I was led to believe that two Paizo people would be attending. I saw SRM running a game once. I was to join the table that had Mike Brock running on Saturday morning 8am. But he didn't bother to show up. Or Rather he did, nearly two hours late.
The next time I saw Mike Brock, was when he was talking with SRM at a nearby table during the Special Event. Mike Brock has a loud voice. I heard the Mike Brock and SRM conversation and not JP who was the Overseer.
There were supposed to be several Venture-Captains. I saw JP run a game, but he mostly focused on his NeoExodus campaign. VC LA Robyn was there and I saw her playing. I saw VC Arizona Rene running a game or two and I also so the new Iowa VC Clarence playing - he played Shadowrun when I saw him. I never saw the new Venture-Captain of Las Vegas or the owner of the convention Doug Dalton. I didn't know Theocrat Issak wasn't the VC anymore but I did see him playing. I got the chance to meet the VC from SF, Mark but that wasn't until we were all just packing up on Sunday. He said he didn't even run and only came out to party.
I had gone to the first three NeonCon's and missed last year with travel to New York. I understand last year was the best so far. I understand that this year it was expected to be as good. I had been lead to believe that Iron GM and even CreativeU would be supported. I have Ult. Combat and saw that people used NeonCon to get their names in the book. With Kobold Quarterly and ad's on EN World, I thought this years NeonCon would be epic. EpicFAIL.
If Paizo will be having Venture-Captains and employee's go to conventions and have those conventions use that as part of their advertising they should have those people there and active. I can't say it was false - I did see them and even play. But they kept to themselves. With Mike Brock being the new organized play guy, I think he should have stepped up and said "Hi!" but he didn't and the only time Doug stepped up was to interrupt the Special with his "Players Award" speech. He could have asked JP if it was alright - if it was at a place to interrupt. It's a timed event.
I spoke to several other players. I understand that Theocrat Issak was the lead on the PFS play for a time and he might not have been up to the task. I understand that NeonCon had hoped for more PFS players and GM's. Is there a correlation between Theocrat Issak's lack of leadership and the PFS play or is there a correlation between NeonCon and the lack of Iron GM and CreativeU that played a bigger role in the matter? There was no focus - no GM or someone that called each event. Just a couple volunteers that put the "potential" events on a list and a "Get it your damn self" type of get together. I had to find the potential table list, then find that table and hope that there would be players and GM's. Often that didn't happen. Then it was up to me to wander around and see if I could join a table. Think the new VC of Las Vegas and owner of the show would want to be around to help out. I might have made a table or two.
I did like the NeonCon dollars. I liked the potential for getting some books and goodies. But my experience with them and the distribution seemed bad. At one table the $10 award would go to the GM and the $5 to the players. Seemed like it was up to the GM to decide if they wanted the higher dollar amount. When it was passed around by the staff to the GM, it was often stated that the person earning the dollars would go to the person with the most kills. Maybe even first 20 or 1. I played a Bard. No killing for me. The fighter got 3 attacks per round as an archer. I got one. I wonder if the odds were in his favor. The one GM on Sunday had us all roll off. That was the fairest, but it was also the least creative. One GM did say that he would give his extra $5 to the group with the MVP as voted on by the players - but we all talked about it - and we all thought that there was no fair way to give it out, as we all did something important and role played well. So we went with a roll off.
In all, NeonCon 2011 was disappointing. It's a good thing that there aren't any other regional conventions going on that weekend. NeonCon would flounder without the LA and Arizona crowd. The Vegas crowd for PFS had - maybe 10-15 people? And they were playing Shadowrun. And that was the fullest table I'd seen. Was or is there a split or faction going on because of the switch in Las Vegas Venture-Captain? If that is the case - that seems like a bad omen.
I would like to hear some other people's thoughts on the convention. I realize that this was a bad event for me, but as an alumni I'd hoped for better.
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I am sorry you had that experience. I will allow Doug to speak for the con but I will speak on my own behalf.
I GMed a game each day. It is true I was late for my Saturday morning game but it wasn't by two hours. It was by 45 minutes and Denver Venture-Captain, JP Chapleau, stood in for me for the first 45 minutes. I then arrived and took over the game for the last 3 hours. My schedule did advise it started at 0900 and perhaps it was an old schedule. Sure enough, shows 0900 start time at the top for all 3 days for me. I still have the excel spreadhseet and checked it to make sure. There were three players at the table and they all seemed to have a good time.
I apologize for the loud voice. I want to make sure the players at my table can hear what is being said in the scenario, especially in a large hall. I never received complaints at the convention and wished you would have come over and said something if it was a problem at the convention instead of after the fact.
Also, I wasn't at the special but for a few minutes so I don't know how you heard me and SRM have a conversation instead of JP who was the Overseer. I dropped in to see how many tables we had, stayed for 5-10 minutes to make sure everything was going smoothly with JP when he wasn't reading his script, then I left. I had a dinner meeting with another industry person during the Special so I wasn't there. I've got a receipt to prove it. I then met two friends and went out with them to discuss some other PFS related things.
I said hi to every table and every player at the tables I went to. If I happened to miss your table, I apologize. The table with Painlord and Dave the Barbarian playing Eyes of Ten can attest. I also made my rounds to the other tables. Whenever a player walked up and wanted to talk, I made sure to sit with them and address any concerns they had. If you wanted to meet me or talk to me, all you had to do was come up and say hi. I had chats with quite a few posters on this board including Painlord, Callarek, Feral, Dave the Barbarian, and quite a few more who I simply don't remember off the top of my head. I talked with so many people that my voice was almost gone on Sunday morning.
Again, I am sorry you had a poor experience but some of the things you mentioned simply aren't true.
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Holy wall of words!
Vors in the future, please format you posts for easier reading.
I barely get what you are trying to say here, because everything seems to run together and the format makes it hard to read.
First off, why do you keep mentioning iron GM and CreativeU? Neither are related to PFS. Or is that a separate compliant?
One other thing except for GenCon and PaizoCon VCs are not obligated to GM, and sometimes they go the conventions just to play.
On everything else, about the organization of the events and the lack of players for PFS, can't comment.
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Sorry to hear it didn't go well, Andrew.
I did not attend, as I had a local convention, so I cannot speak to most of your specific concerns.
One thing I thought I should clarify, however: Paizo does not "send" Venture-Captains to conventions. We attend on our own, and may qualify for badges or sometimes rooms based on the tables we run, just like anyone else.
The closest we come to getting "sent" anywhere is the obligation we have to attend PaizoCon or Gen Con (where the badge would be covered based on our GMing).
Edit: Ninjaed x 2!
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I had chats with quite a few posters on this board including PainlordI am sorry you had to experience that Mike... ;)
I actually had dinner with Painlord and another California player and we chatted about the state of PFS for two hours! We later had beers for about an hour to continue the discussion. It was an enlightening discussion and one that I gained a great deal of insight. He and I may not see eye to eye on some things and we disagree completely on others (as Feral can attest), but I think we both learned some things from each other we didn't know going in.
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There were a few issues that disrupted NeonCon, and caused things not to work as expected/planned.
One of them was the (very) late turnover of organizing Pathfinder Society events from Issak to Doug. That caused issues with having GMs properly assigned, and making sure that the tables were setup well.
There were (are?) some issues with the signup application for the con. It is missing some things that would make it work better, and I am not sure if the provider will be able to come up with the items needed.
I am not sure what happened with the special, I admit that I would have expected (and hoped) that the Overseer GM would have the microphone that was used last year. JP is a nice guy, but not a trained stage person, so his voice was hard to hear during the special.
I played at one table with Mike Brock. It was an interesting game, and fun. I am sorry that he failed to be able to make it on time for the Sturday 0800 table you were signed up for.
On the VCs, unlike PaizoCon and GenCon, Paizo did not send any VCs, nor do they require any VCs to attend/volunteer their time at NeonCon. NeonCon just gets a bunch of the nearby VCs showing up because Las Vegas is easy to get to, and NeonCon has been growing in size and participation, in previous years.
I cannot say what happened to Iron GM and CreativeU. I am not even sure if the various convention boons for PFS were being offered, I did not run across any during the times I was at the convention.
I admit that, while I was signed up for more games than I played, at least some of that was due to issues I have been having (ill health and my car is not working). Yes, I actually missed playing the Kortos Envoy twice due to that. Sigh.
I found the convention enjoyable, but hope that nothing like the PFS coordinator changing just a few weeks before the next one does NOT happen, since I suspect that had a lot to do with the issues at the show.
Marty
Ran: Frostfur Captives
Played: Tide of Twilight, Web of Corruption, Wrath of the Accursed, Blood Under Absolom
PCs played: Bruno (Fighter (Lore Warden)), Callarek (Fighter archer), Kinevon (Fighter (Polearm Master))
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I actually had dinner with Painlord and another California player and we chatted about the state of PFS for two hours! We later had beers for about an hour to continue the discussion. It was an enlightening discussion and one that I gained a great deal of insight. He and I may not see eye to eye on some things and we disagree completely on others (as Feral can attest), but I think we both learned some things from each other we didn't know going in.
You are no fun Mike!
Now you owe me a beer at PaizoCon...;)
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Hey Vors--
I'm sorry I didn't meet you at NeonCon.
I had a similar, yet different experience.
I enjoyed the Con, though I disagreed with the sign up process/management. I wish they had used Warhorn but I understand Doug D's desire to use his own system (I said so on a different thread).
I, too, wish the campaign bucks were distributed differently (I was playing a caster...much less chances to roll a 1 or 20) during the Special. However, those didn't make or break the convention for me.
However, I think that convention experiences are yours to create, Vors.
I had a lot of face time with Mike Brock (who was very open) and some time with SRM. I took the time to create those discussions. However, that is just me.
I know that Brock was just sitting around at a table on Saturday, happy to chat...I know because I approached and chatted with him.
In addition, I had chats with VCs Rene, Robyn, JP, Azmyth, Clarence G, and (former VC) Izzak...because I approached them to chat. They were all friendly and nice.
Heck, I also met and/or chatted with many others: Muja, Mortifier, DJ Cherry, Amazing Red, Gary L., among others. I wish I had the chance to play with you. I would have remembered it.
We had at least 11 players from the Bay Area there: Sarta, David, Will, Bart, Ron, WayTooMuchCoffee, Azmyth, Cherry, Sarta, GM Chris, and myself (who am I missing?).
I believe PFS is a social game wherein your own personality and charisma can lead you on different paths.
I definitely had a different experience than you...because I made it that way.
-Pain
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Venture-Captain, Arizona—Tucson
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I'm sorry to hear that NeonCon was a disappointment to you, VD. I arrived very late on Friday, so I was only able to attend activities on Saturday and Sunday. I ran three tables and jumped in to play at another.
Last year's NeonCon was blessed to have Phoenix Venture-Captain Rene Ayala in charge of coordinating Pathfinder games. With his full attention dedicated to the Pathfinder Society, he was able to ensure solid coordination of all activities.
Doug Daulton's numerous other responsibilities forced him to pass coordination of Pathfinder Society games on to others, which may have led to the issues you described. Additionally, the changeover of Las Vegas Venture-Captains divided the event's planning between several people, so some details may have slipped through the cracks.
Aggravating the situation, two planned PFS scenarios could not be released as scheduled. This unexpected issue led to some last-minute schedule changes at the 'con.
Perhaps future conventions could try for a "PFS meet and greet" activity (such as a breakfast or dinner) similar to those scheduled at PaizoCon. Such an icebreaker might make it easier for new arrivals to meet the Venture-Captains, gamemasters, and other players. (If one was scheduled this year and I overlooked it, please accept my apologies: Since I couldn't get there on time, I only glanced at Thursday's and Friday's schedules.)
Some sort of identifier might be desirable for those attending their first NeonCon, such as a button that could attach to their badge ("New in these Parts" or something like that). A different button might identify those attending their first 'con altogether, to encourage people to introduce themselves or their games.
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... attended NeonCon this past weekend. Disappointing.
Vors,
I am sorry you had a bad experience at the show. I just got in from a double-shift and have to be back at work in 6 hours. Desperate need for sleep precludes a detailed reply at the moment, but I promise I will address each of your concerns in a subsequent post over the weekend (if not sooner).
The short version is ... the show could be better. It can always be better and we always aim to make it so. Feedback from everyone is valued. I look forward to continuing this conversation once I am well-rested and properly fed. :)
Thanks,
Doug Daulton
Venture-Captain, Las Vegas
Owner, NEONCON
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I absolutely love my name. I wore two t-shirts with it on there. The one with my new kick-ass tattoo and one with General Goldfrapp the Naked Halfling TALDORAN Trebuchet. Each shirt had my name Theocrat Issak on it.
I had a death in the family and thus I was not there on Thursday and missed the morning session Friday. I had an overall decent time.
PFS Coordinator Micheal Brock was indeed at the Special Event. Peter H was our GM and Ian F and Adam M were sitting next to him. Stephen was closest to our table, yet it was Micheal's voice we heard - who was on Stephen's left (facing).
One cannot expect to have people come up to you. I am a very vocal person - and am dedicated to my hobby. 32 years now and I have a tattoo with the Sun and the Moon of Pholtus, the shield of Taldor, the Keys of the Vatican and a d20. Many people don't post often to the forums. Expecting them to come up to someone, much less the coordinator is asking a bit much.
To me, seeing Micheal Brock, Painlord and Dragonmoon discussing the pain of meeting Painlord shows the insider aspect of the group and less to answering Vors Dom's concerns.
Theocrat Issak
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PFS Coordinator Micheal Brock was indeed at the Special Event. Peter H was our GM and Ian F and Adam M were sitting next to him. Stephen was closest to our table, yet it was Micheal's voice we heard - who was on Stephen's left (facing).
I apologize that my 5-10 minutes at the Special, as I noted above in my first reply, interfered with your and the other player's enjoyment of the Special. I will try to be more cognizant of my actions in the future.
I'm sorry that people feel that way. I've tried to do my best to be as open and approachable as I possibly can be. I will endeavor to do an even better jobin the future at other conventions and public appearances. I will go on the record and let everyone know publicly, if you do see me at a show or other event, please do not hesitate to come up and chat. I always try to make myself available to discuss PFS with every fan. Also, please spread the word to other players in your regions so that those who do not frequent the message boards are extended the same courtesy.
One cannot expect to have people come up to you. I am a very vocal person - and am dedicated to my hobby. 32 years now and I have a tattoo with the Sun and the Moon of Pholtus, the shield of Taldor, the Keys of the Vatican and a d20. Many people don't post often to the forums. Expecting them to come up to someone, much less the coordinator is asking a bit much.
To me, seeing Micheal Brock, Painlord and Dragonmoon discussing the pain of meeting Painlord shows the insider aspect of the group and less to answering Vors Dom's concerns.
Theocrat Issak
That was friendly banter between us after I had already answered Vors post with a response. Again, I will apologize if you, or anyone else, took it the wrong way. Their is no insider aspect. Every Venture-Captain and Venture-Lieutenant have my cell phone, work phone, email, and Skype info and can contact me at anytime to discuss any concerns from any players in their regions. Had Vors decided to go through his Venture-Captain or contact me directly at Paizo, I would have taken time to discuss his concerns via email, telephone or Skype. He chose to voice his concerns over this message board so I tried to address those concerns in kind. If he wishes to contact me directly, I would still be happy to discuss his concerns with him. My email is mike.brock@paizo.com.
On a side note, I know most of the sessions have been reported for Neon Con but I don't see any credited to Vors account for either of his characters for any scenario from Neon Con 2011. Vors, please contact me or Doug Daulton at your convenience so we can assure you receive credit for the sessions you played. Thanks.
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I got the chance to meet the VC from SF, Mark but that wasn't until we were all just packing up on Sunday. He said he didn't even run and only came out to party.
I am glad we met Vors and very sorry to hear that your time wasn't enjoyable. If you make it next year, I'll reserve a spot for you on one of my tables.
FYI:
One of my longest and dearest friends lives in LV and is recovering from Quad-Bypass heart surgery. He like all of us, is a 'Lifer'. But couldn't, for obvious reasons, come out to play. So I brought the Con to him! I ran Tide of Twilight on Saturday and Prince of Augustina of Sunday, both off-site.
PROS:
* Having the Con in one giant ball room was pretty awesome! Thumbs up.
* Con-Bucks + Awesome Product Selection = Schweet! ;)
* Clinton Boomer. He wrote a book.
* Turning my 30+ year veteran players into overnight PF Addicts!
* Painlord's sadness over Thorne's retirement.
* The search for a quiet bar with good music (and the friends who shared that journey).
CONS:
* Missing our Cabbage friends from Austin.
* No Seminars to record for the podcast.
* Depriving myself of sleep for the week leading into Con.
* Not going to meet Chummily from Pawn Stars.
Live to Game.
Game to Live.
~@~
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I enjoyed getting the chance to meet Mike and some of the new and old VC's - JP, Robyn, Theocrat, Doug, etc. The PFS games were fun as well as the NeoExodus ones. Spending time with Painlord, Feral, and the rest of the So Cal players was fun. I got to meet some of the DDM players that I have seen on the boards for years. I paid $14 for a sandwich.
The Con seemed a little less spectacular than last year. It was a little rough on the mustering and organization side, but as long as you didn't mind looking around a bit, it was easy enough to navigate. Not as many game icons attended as last year.
I am sure that NeonCon 2012 will see that those minor issues are corrected.
Any regrets? Yes. Not managing to play at a table that was GMed by Sir_Wulf who is my idol and favorite GM of all time.
My only regret was not being able to play much while at the conventiom.
I did get to meet a lot of nice and interesting people. Among others, I got to meet Mike Azzolino and thank him for his informative summer podcasts, particularly the one with Greg A. Vaughan as a guest.
I also got to play a game with Wolfgang Baur and kill his character. Well... the ghoul killed him, not I. :-)
I want to thank the entire NeonCon staff for helping noob seller me at my very first Convention sales experience. You all answered my questions cheerfully and even held the door open for me. Doug and his crew rock!
My only regret was not being able to play much while at the conventiom. !Sorry to bring this off topic...
Dawn I am hoping to see some Frog God Games presence at PaizoCon!
We intend to be there. The Frog God himself is planning on attending along with one or more of his tadpoles. Skeeter Green, the FGG Shipping Ogre and PF Conversion expert, should also be present.
Well this was my first NeonCon and I had a blast. I will definitely try to attend again next year. Yes, there were some problems with registration, but I gave my feedback there rather than on the boards. I had three slots where my game disappeared, but you can't run a mod if hasn't been released. In any case it was easy enough to find another table to join. In one case we lost our GM at the last minute, but luckily Issak jumped in and ran a really fun mod.
Since I love to start new characters, I played at the 1-2 tables most of the con and met some brand-new PFS players. They seemed psyched and were happily figuring out how they were going to build their characters, so I assume they are going to continue with PFS. My table for the special had three pregens, and they all kicked ass and had a great time (as did I). The only thing I was disappointed about was that the new people didn't have a chance to get any special certs as there didn't seem to be any; not sure what happened there. However people were very excited about the Con Bucks.
Lastly, there was some really great GMing at my tables - it inspired me so much that I am thinking of moving from a casual player to a casual player that occasionally GMs.
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Sounds to me like the previous NeonCon's had everyone's expectations running high, perhaps leading to a little disappointment. I'm bummed that I missed out on this year's event. Hopefully next year.
Yes Dennis, you and Fiona were both missed this year.
I admit, that I came to Neoncon recruiting for Stategicon as our conventions are sister cons for Neoncon, and I reached out to players in PFS, Warhammer, Warmachine and Darkage miniatures.
It was great gaming with everyone from throughout the region at Neoncon, and that is one of the things I love about Neoncon is that is draws players from everywhere, not just Vegas.
Thankyou Doug for providing the Venue and organizing the GMs and games. I know I had a good time and believe that most of the players I met had a good time.
I look forward to attending again next year.
