Simplest 3.5 Archmage & Hierophant Conversion

[Trellon Falorin]

I was looking over the prestige classes Pathfinder chose to update from 3.5, and every one of those classes was boosted in the process.

I got to looking at the Archmage wondering what changes you would make to it, and it hit me. Reduce the Knowledge skills to 12 ranks each to qualify, up the Hit Dice to d6, update the skill list, and then drop the spell slot requirement for High Arcana. Done!

You would do much the same with the Hierophant PrC except add Spells Per Day of "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" at every level.

I decided it would be best to follow KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) as much as possible.

[ShadowcatX]

I believe the fact that archmage was over powered in 3.5 is one of the reasons (beyond the fact that there shouldn't be a prc required to be an archmage) it wasn't converted. And dropping the spell slot requirement for high arcana would break the class far more than it already is.

As to hierophant, I never understood why it didn't advance casting every (or at least every other) level anyways.

[Trellon Falorin]

ShadowcatX wrote:

I believe the fact that archmage was over powered in 3.5 is one of the reasons (beyond the fact that there shouldn't be a prc required to be an archmage) it wasn't converted. And dropping the spell slot requirement for high arcana would break the class far more than it already is.

As to hierophant, I never understood why it didn't advance casting every (or at least every other) level anyways.

I disagree on the archmage high arcana being overpowered to begin with. I would like some way to access high arcana for an arcane spellcaster without the archmage PrC though.

With the beefing up of every single core class and basic PrC for Pathfinder, I don't see the high arcana other than Mastery of Elements being all that nasty.

As to why the hierophant didn't get spells per level, Cleric 15/Hierophant 2 (with Divine Reach taken twice) means harm goes from a range of touch to a range of 60 feet. Since most of the cleric's most devastating spells are all touch, I would guess that's why.

I do have to wonder why you think adding spellcaster advancement wouldn't break the hierophant, but you think the archmage class is broken to begin with.

[Nicos]

ShadowcatX wrote:

And dropping the spell slot requirement for high arcana would break the class far more than it already is.

As to hierophant, I never understood why it didn't advance casting every (or at least every other) level anyways.

I agree with this opinion. You not only will gain +1 to spellcasting every level, but you will gain free high arcanas every level, it is just too much.

[Dragonamedrake]

Trellon Falorin wrote:

I was looking over the prestige classes Pathfinder chose to update from 3.5, and every one of those classes was boosted in the process.

I got to looking at the Archmage wondering what changes you would make to it, and it hit me. Reduce the Knowledge skills to 12 ranks each to qualify, up the Hit Dice to d6, update the skill list, and then drop the spell slot requirement for High Arcana. Done!

You would do much the same with the Hierophant PrC except add Spells Per Day of "+1 level of existing divine spellcasting class" at every level.

I decided it would be best to follow KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) as much as possible.

Alot of the Arch mage abilities can be gained through feats now so I'm not sure it would be worth going anymore.

Not to mention in Pathfinder the bonuses for sticking with Wizard can be downright amazing. Look at some of those arcane discoveries a Wizard qualifies for.

If anything Arch Mage would need a serious buff to be competitive in Pathfinder.

[Trellon Falorin]

Alright. What are the Pathfinder equivalents are for...

Arcane Fire?
Arcane Reach?
Mastery of Counterspelling?
Mastery of Elements?
Mastery of Shaping?

[kyrt-ryder]

Use the following series of feats.

Rather than have to repeat the prerequisite, I'll simply state right now that each requires Skill Focus: Spellcraft and Eschew Materials.

Unless otherwise specified, these do NOT cost spell slots.

Arcane Fire: (requires a 'blasting' type school or bloodline power) add 1d6/2 caster levels to those bloodline powers damage and modify them to be cast at will. By expending 1 use of the limited uses available, a mage can instead add this damage value to a single target spell instead.

Arcane Reach: (As written, except no sacrificed spell)

Mastery of Counterspelling: (As written, add Improved Counterspell prerequisite)

Mastery of Elements: As written (yes this invalidates the crappy Paizo elemental substitution metamagic, as it should in my estimation. If you're THAT worried about it, make that metamagic feat a prerequisite)

Mastery of Shaping: As written

Spell Power: Increase effective caster level for purposes of damage dice by 2 OR all variables by 1. Can be taken up to three times.

Spell Like Ability: Consume one spell slot permanently for two daily Spell-like Abilities of a chosen spell on your spell list. Prepared Spellcasters must have access to this spell, Spontaneous Casters need not know it.

[TOZ]

Trellon Falorin wrote:

Alright. What are the Pathfinder equivalents are for...

Arcane Blast.

Reach Spell.
Counterspell School.
Admixture School.
Selective Spell.

They don't fit perfectly, but there you are.

[kyrt-ryder]

It's interesting that the Pathfinder Reach Spell only costs 1 spell level to make a spell qualify for 3.5 Persistent Spell.

[Dragonamedrake]

TOZ wrote:

Trellon Falorin wrote:

Alright. What are the Pathfinder equivalents are for...

Arcane Blast.

Reach Spell.
Counterspell School.
Admixture School.
Selective Spell.

They don't fit perfectly, but there you are.

Thanks for looking those up. I only knew because I am also a large fan of the Arch Mage but it was pointed out to me that alot of the abilities are duplicated.

For it to be a good path now you would need to spruce it up a bit.

Progressing your Spell School Powers and letting lvls in Arch mage to stack with your Wizard lvls for meeting prereqs for the arcane discoveries would help a ton.

[ShadowcatX]

Trellon Falorin wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

I believe the fact that archmage was over powered in 3.5 is one of the reasons (beyond the fact that there shouldn't be a prc required to be an archmage) it wasn't converted. And dropping the spell slot requirement for high arcana would break the class far more than it already is.

As to hierophant, I never understood why it didn't advance casting every (or at least every other) level anyways.

I disagree on the archmage high arcana being overpowered to begin with. I would like some way to access high arcana for an arcane spellcaster without the archmage PrC though.

Wish, time stop, etc. all as a spell like ability 2/day with no cost (in spell slots) isn't over powered?

[Nicos]

Even if you could duplicate the high arcanas with feats that means that you get 5 extra feats over the straight wizard.

And if i remenber correctly high arcanas do not use higher level slot like the metamagic feats