Feral Combat Training

[blackbloodtroll]

http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/ultimateCombatFeats.html# feral-combat-training

Nevermind how it interacts with flurry, I am curious as to how this feat interacts with things like weapon focus, and feats that do not have improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite, but the prerequisite feats do?

[blackbloodtroll]

Some examples are Hamatula Strike, and Gorgon's Fist.

[blackbloodtroll]

I suppose no one is really willing to touch this one.

[LoreKeeper]

It is clear how it interacts with flurry: your natural attack counts as a monk weapon for the purpose of flurrying.

This is what I *think*: prerequisites cannot be circumvented with Feral Combat Training - but you do get the benefits of feats onto your natural attack. For example:

I *think* if you have Feral Combat Training (bite) as well as Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Focus (unarmed strike), then you get a +1 to attack with your bite as if you had Weapon Focus (bite).

Also I *think* that for purposes of Hamatula Strike, if you get the feat (using the normal prerequisites) then you can use your bite (piercing) attack in conjunction with the Hamatula Strike.

[blackbloodtroll]

I think you might be right. I just want to be sure I have all the rules evidence available before taking this unarmed fighter idea to my DM. He is easy to work with, he just requires evidence.

[Crimson Jester]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Feral Combat Training

Nevermind how it interacts with flurry, I am curious as to how this feat interacts with things like weapon focus, and feats that do not have improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite, but the prerequisite feats do?

Exactly the same as if they also had the feat as a prerequisite.

[blackbloodtroll]

Crimson Jester wrote:

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Feral Combat Training

Nevermind how it interacts with flurry, I am curious as to how this feat interacts with things like weapon focus, and feats that do not have improved unarmed strike as a prerequisite, but the prerequisite feats do?

Exactly the same as if they also had the feat as a prerequisite.

Would this include things such as improved critical?

[Dennis Baker]

Why would you need this feat to take Improved Critical?

I keep seeing this thread and I just don't get what your concern is.

Weapon Focus? You don't need Feral Combat Training to take Weapon Focus... I guess I'm just not sure what you are looking for.

[Talonhawke]

Dennis Baker wrote:

Why would you need this feat to take Improved Critical?

I keep seeing this thread and I just don't get what your concern is.

Weapon Focus? You don't need Feral Combat Training to take Weapon Focus... I guess I'm just not sure what you are looking for.

He wants to know if having Feral means that any feats he has that affect IUA Also affect his natural weapon.

[Dennis Baker]

If it augments unarmed strikes, then yes. Weapon Focus and Improved Critical (unarmed strike) augment unarmed strikes so you should be golden there. I don't have the text to Hamatula Strike handy, so can't really answer that.

[LoreKeeper]

Also, I don't think he means Hamatula Strike (which is piercing weapon specific), but Hamatulatsu, from the Inner Sea Guide.

[blackbloodtroll]

Yes, for feats that augment unarmed strikes, that do not have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, but the feats that are the prerequisite feats do. Would those be affected by Feral Combat Training? Perhaps a feat requires Improved Grapple, but not Improved Unarmed Strike, even though Improved Grapple does. Would the benefit of said feat, if it interacted with unarmed strikes, be able to be used with natural weapons, due to Feral Combat Training?

[Grick]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Yes, for feats that augment unarmed strikes, that do not have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, but the feats that are the prerequisite feats do. Would those be affected by Feral Combat Training? Perhaps a feat requires Improved Grapple, but not Improved Unarmed Strike, even though Improved Grapple does. Would the benefit of said feat, if it interacted with unarmed strikes, be able to be used with natural weapons, due to Feral Combat Training?

Can you ask you questions in a more specific manner?

"Does Hamatulatsu (Combat) apply to Bite when used with Feral Combat Training (Bite)?"

Yes. Your bite can deal either bludgeoning or piercing damage. You decide which type of damage you deal whenever you attack a foe, but you may only choose one type at a time. If you critically hit a foe with your bite while doing piercing damage, the additional pain caused by the strike causes the foe to become sickened for 1 round (or staggered for 1 round if the target is already sickened). Etc.

"Does Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) apply to Bite when used with Feral Combat Training (Bite)?"

N/A: You must take Weapon Focus (bite) before taking Feral Combat Training (bite) so you already have WF, and the WF(US) would not stack.

"What about Gorgon's Fist?"

Feral Combat Training applies to feats that have Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite. Gorgon's Fist has Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike. Thus, FCT applies.

"What about Improved Critical (Unarmed Strike)?"

I think so, as IC augments your unarmed strike, FCT would cause that to augment your bite as well.

[Archaeik]

Okay, so I found this thread

And I seem to remember finding another on this topic.

Has it been answered definitively whether or not a monk's unarmed damage replaces the normal damage of a natural attack using FCT?

Further, if it does replace it, can you still apply INA/Strong Jaw etc? (I would think those improve the natural attack, which would then gets replaced by the monk damage -- since the monk damage is considered as a manufactured weapon)

[blackbloodtroll]

It is curious to know if the ability of the monk to have his unarmed strikes count as manufactured weapons would transfer to his natural attack through Feral Combat Training. If this is so, then feats and abilities that effect manufactured weapons could effect the natural attack in question.