Critical on a spirited charge...


Rules Questions

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A lance with the spirited charge feat does x3 damage. What if the attack is a critical? Would that make it x6 damage? Have a cavalier playing in my next campaign and this is a question that came up. Thanks for the help.


PRD wrote:
Multiplying: When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.

So a x3 Spirited Charge with a x2 crit would be x4 damage.


A lance is a x3 weapon on a critical hit on foot.

If you critical hit without spirited charge while charging using a lance you will do x4 damage (x2 from charging while mounted combined x3 critical).

If you critical hit with spirited charge while charging using a lance you will do x5 damage (x3 from charging while mounted with spirited charge combined with the x3 critical).

If you are a level 20 cavalier with supreme charge charging with spirited charge and critical you'll be looking at x7 damage (x3 from charging combined with x3 from supreme charge and combined with x3 from critical hitting).


Rather than x2 and x2, think of it as x2 and +x1.


Abraham spalding wrote:

A lance is a x3 weapon on a critical hit on foot.

If you critical hit without spirited charge while charging using a lance you will do x4 damage (x2 from charging while mounted combined x3 critical).

If you critical hit with spirited charge while charging using a lance you will do x5 damage (x3 from charging while mounted with spirited charge combined with the x3 critical).

If you are a level 20 cavalier with supreme charge charging with spirited charge and critical you'll be looking at x7 damage (x3 from charging combined with x3 from supreme charge and combined with x3 from critical hitting).

Supreme Charge doesn't stack with Spirited Charge like that. Supreme Charge and Spirited Charge both double the damage on a charge, (when you add the x2 on a lance it becomes triple). But you have to add each double separately:

x2 Spirited Charge + x2 Supreme Critical + x2 Lance + x3 Crit = x6

If you add the lance to each Spirited Charge and Supreme Charge, then add them together, you're adding the lance twice:

(x2 Spirited Charge + x2 Lance) + (x2 Supreme Critical + x2 Lance) + x3 Crit = x7


Um... you realize we came to the same answer -- what's more my way works just as well as yours does and even better is exactly how it states it is done by the feats?

It doesn't 'double double' as you are suggesting -- it increases it to triple -- when combining multipliers in pathfinder you take the second multiplier reduce it by 1 and then add to the first multiplier.

Or as I said:
3+(3-1)+(3-1)=x7.

Though honestly method doesn't matter as much as the fact that with both methods we still got the same answer.

The Exchange

Necro Bump! Should have checked the date =/

Criticals are separate from the rest of the weapon damage calculation and is calculated last and as its OWN multiplier. I've never read anywhere that it has to follow the x2 x3 x4 x5 etc rule. Everything before that part of the damage calculation follows that rule, IE Two doublings is a tripling. If they made crits follow this rule Scythes would be virtually worthless with its x4 Multiplier.

Depending on your GM it can be handled several ways.
1d8 + Str + other static damage enhancements like power attack, enhancement bonus, Smite Evil, feats etc

Triple that for Charging to get
3(1d8 + Damage Enhancements)

Critical that to get 3(3(1d8 + Damage Enhancements))

Another way would be to treat that triple damage as its own dice roll

So instead of 3(1d8 + Damage) you're getting 3d8 + 3(Damage). This method means you're less likely to be boned by a low dice roll.

Then triple that for the crit for 3(3d8 + 3(Damage)) = Total damage dealt

The third and final way Ive seen this resolved is just treat everything like it was an individual dice roll/damage roll. 9d8 + 9(Damage)


Also a necro bump, is MortalSword right?

Grand Lodge

No, multiples do not multiply. So when he says "depending on your GM" he really means depending on whether or not your GM is following the rules. LINK

Multiplying: wrote:
When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.


Ok, I kinda figured, especially after doing some math, but since I saw no reply was not sure. Thanks Claude!

Edit: PEARS INTO PEACHES

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