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I know that this has been done to death more than once, but my question is the opposite of most of the rest.
Is it logical that a creature several sizes larger really has an easy time grappling the smaller creature?
In RAW, it would appear that an average human grappling a house fly is as easy as hitting the broad side of a barn with a rock at point blank range.
Really?!?
By any reasonable definition of the house fly's stats, it has a CMD of about 0.
edited to add: In the earlier editions of the game, it was necessary to hit with a touch attack as a precursor to a grapple. Can we get an official ruling?
of course it is. I think you may be confusing the touch attack to attempt a grapple, vs the grapple check itself...
Once you've managed to grab ahold of that fly...how much of a chance does it stand?
Its the hitting it in the first place that may be difficult, due to its size. that has no reflection on its CMD, and is dependant on its touch AC
edit: to extrapolate further, a housefly is far past diminutive for size, and likely has a 16-18 dex for agility.
That gives it a +4-6 AC for size, and a +3-4 for dex. a 17-20 Touch AC
so lets be generous, and say 17. Your average human gets a +0 to attack.
He has a 20% chance to hit the fly in the first place at best, sometimes needing a natural 20 to do so. but once he has that sucker grappled, its game over, automatic win.
Sounds right to me
ya know what, you're absolutely right. That must be a change from 3.5 I missed. I went back and read the section to make sure.
Its probably just something to deal with because of how grapple rules got simplified (as much as possible, they were terrible in 3.5, and only slightly less complex now)
so just suspend disbelief!
Comparing real life to the game is a bad comparison to make. In the real life nobody grapples tigers one on one. In the game it can happen. Even a medium sized croc is a bad idea. The games rules are there to make you heroic to a large extent.
The touch attack rule is gone.
Trip, Sunder, Disarm, and other special attacks work off of CMB and CMD.
The rules are in the combat chapter.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
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of course it is. I think you may be confusing the touch attack to attempt a grapple, vs the grapple check itself...
Once you've managed to grab ahold of that fly...how much of a chance does it stand?
Its the hitting it in the first place that may be difficult, due to its size. that has no reflection on its CMD, and is dependant on its touch AC
edit: to extrapolate further, a housefly is far past diminutive for size, and likely has a 16-18 dex for agility.
That gives it a +4-6 AC for size, and a +3-4 for dex. a 17-20 Touch AC
so lets be generous, and say 17. Your average human gets a +0 to attack.
He has a 20% chance to hit the fly in the first place at best, sometimes needing a natural 20 to do so. but once he has that sucker grappled, its game over, automatic win.
Sounds right to me
If there's a touch attack as a precursor to grapple, it would work. But in RAW, there's no mention of succeeding at a touch attack first. And my group is wanting an official ruling because they think adding an extra die roll is dumb. I think being able to grapple a house fly is dumb. They mention that they know people who can do that. I argue that while there are people who can do that, they can't every time, and most average people can't. Et cetera, ad nauseum...
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ya know what, you're absolutely right. That must be a change from 3.5 I missed. I went back and read the section to make sure.
Its probably just something to deal with because of how grapple rules got simplified (as much as possible, they were terrible in 3.5, and only slightly less complex now)
so just suspend disbelief!
Unfortunately, it's my character that's small, and keeps getting squeezed by bigger bullies who shouldn't even be able to catch me.