| DeathQuaker RPG Superstar 2015 Top 8 |
I've seen bits and pieces of this discussed elsewhere but not all in one place. If this thread IS redundant (I did look, but I might have overlooked), please delete/merge.
So: we've got several abilities that grant spell-like abilities.
Change Shape (6 rp) (grants limited alter self, a 2nd level spell, prereqs; fey, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid)
Dreamspeaker (2 rp) (grants dream if Cha 15; no prereqs)
Gnome Magic (1 rp) (grants dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation, and speak with animals {3 cantrips, 1 1st level} if Cha 11; prereq: gnome)
Lightbringer (2 rp) (grants light, a cantrip, if Int >10, no prereqs)
Magical Linguist (2 rp) (if Cha is 11 or higher, grants arcane mark, comprehend languages, message, and read magic {3 cantrips, 1 1st level}; no prereqs).
Pyromaniac (2 rp) (if Cha is 11, grants dancing lights, flare, prestidigitation, and produce flame {3 cantrips, 1 1st level}; no prereqs).
Spell-Like Ability (varies) (take one spell up to 2nd level; cost is 2 for a 2nd level spell and 1 for a 1st level or 0 level spell. You can take again for multiple castings. Cannot take more than 3 times. No prereqs.)
Svirfneblin Magic (2 rp) (grants blindness/deafness, blur, disguise self, plus constant nondetection - one 1st level spell plus three 2nd level spells, one of which is always on. Prereqs: gnome subtype)
All of these abilities are Standard abilities, meaning even the weakest race can take up to 3 of these if they have the points available.
Note that nearly all of these abilities, except for Spell-like Ability and Change Shape, not ONLY grant the listed spell-like abilities, but ALSO grant some bonus to spellcasting--usually improving a circumstantial save DC or caster level. So for the points value listed you are getting the SLAs plus an additional bonus.
Concern #1
Should there be more limits on how many spell-like abilities you can get? While the "Spell-Like Ability" ability is limited 3 times, nothing stops you from creating some kind of super spell gnome with Svirfneblin Magic, Gnome Magic, and, say, invisibility as an SLA for the total cost of 5 rp (and more abilities than that if the race is advanced or monstrous). Is that a problem or is that desirable? A lot of these offer cantrips that in the end aren't going to be game breaking, especially when you can only use them once per day, usually. Most of these spells are utilitarian rather than combat oriented (although I have seen some insane uses of ghost sound recently...) But on the other hand, you could potentially have gnome commoners casting blur amongst an arsenal of several other very useful spells, and I'm not sure if that feels right.
Concern #2
This is one of the parts of the ARG where RP costs seem especially arbitrary and inconsistent. Some particular items of note:
-- There is no way Svirfneblin Magic should cost the same as Pyromaniac or one single 2nd level spell cast once per day--especially with continuous nondetection as one of the benefits (and no minimum Charisma required to uses the SLAs). The gnome prerequisite nowhere near justifies that--if Change Shape with its own racial prereqs costs 6 RP, Svirfneblin Magic should be about the same.
-- Gnome Magic costing only 1 RP is less head-scratch-worthy, but it still grants a bonus to a save DC and grants four spells for the same cost as one spell-like ability? It should be at LEAST 2 (with other similar abilities sans prereqs should go up to at least 3). Really, this is particularly one of those issues where obviously the points cost was determined to shoehorn gnomes into a 10 point build when obviously their abilities are worth more.
-- For the Spell-Like Ability ability, the cost of a cantrip should not be equal to the cost of a 1st level spell. The precedents established by the other pre-exisiting SLA granting abilities suggests that you should more or less get three cantrips equal to the price of one 1st level spell. Also, of course, there's the general discrepancy that this ability costs more or less as much as most of the other SLA granting abilities, when the other abilities both offer more spells and additional bonuses. Sure, there's a price for the freedom of choosing whatever spell you like rather than a predetermined list of mostly practical spells, but it still doesn't come out even.
Just some thoughts.
| Foghammer |
Sure, there's a price for the freedom of choosing whatever spell you like rather than a predetermined list of mostly practical spells, but it still doesn't come out even.
That price of freedom is considerably higher in the case of cantrips than in the case of something like feats. There are many 0-level spells, but nowhere near as many of them as there are feats. The 'items' themselves are priced more proportionally, but the less substantial concept of the "price of choice" is not, in this case.
I was a bit wordy there. I hope that made sense. In any case, I'm agreeing with you, just harping on that point a bit.
I think part of the problem is that some 1st and 2nd level spells are just obviously more useful in a larger number of situations. Like Entangle or Vanish or Color Spray; each only 1 RP. Erase, Crafter's Curse, and Sculpt Corpse are somewhat less attractive in their utility, though they are the same RP cost (1).