101 Shield Bashery Questions


Rules Questions


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After 15 years or so of gaming, I've decided to break down and play a character who uses a shield. I've opted to go all-in and take a bunch of shieldy type things- so I'm looking at a dwarven ranger with a bunch of shield bashy type feats and abilities.

Here are a couple things I'm confused by:
1. Do double slice and two weapon rend apply to off hand shield attacks?
2. Is the free bull rush attack with shield slam automatic- or can I opt not to use it?
3. Can I do a shield bash with a single attack, or does it have to be off hand? (I know this has been debated- but I'm looking at my shield actually doing MORE damage than my waraxe).
4. If a spiked shield is +1 to size and "bashing" is +2, does that mean a +1 heavy spiked shield of bashing is 2D6+1 (plus strength) damage? and with lead blades that goes up to 3D6? (I know I'll be looking at -4 to hit if I use heavy)
5. Since shield master basically counts your shield as a magic weapon too, what happens if you also enchant your spikes? (I love that I'll have a better to hit w/ my off hand due to shield master also).
6. Does a +3 (to defense) heavy spiked shield then get around cold iron/silver DR if wielded by someone with the shield master feat? (since it would count as a +3 weapon)

Thanks for any shield answers you can provide!

The Exchange

1. Yes.
2. Debatable. Personally, I would say you can opt out, but it looks as if it is automatic.
3. You can use your shield bash as a primary attack.
4. I know it was debated before, and if your GM is fine with it, that's fine.
5. No clue.
6. Yes.

Shadow Lodge

4. Should be fine, but why are you looking at a -4 to hit? if you use a light weapon (so a short sword) you'll be looking at a -2 since you can consider the shield as your main hand and the sword as your offhand


That was under the assumption that I couldn't use shield as my main attack. If I can, I suppose a short sword will suffice.

Though to be honest, after Level 11 I'm looking at -4/0 as my penalties if wielding something big in the other hand- as opposed to -2/0. A -2 to hit for D10 (d.waraxe) vs. D6 (short sword) might be worthwhile.

The shield slam=automatic is interesting. I have to get it if I want shield mastery. But I could easily see times when I don't want to push someone back (like when I want to finish a full attack).

Thanks for the help so far!

Shadow Lodge

Sloanzilla wrote:
Though to be honest, after Level 11 I'm looking at -4/0 as my penalties if wielding something big in the other hand- as opposed to -2/0.
Wait, how are you negating the TWF penalties for one hand?
Sloanzilla wrote:
A -2 to hit for D10 (d.waraxe) vs. D6 (short sword) might be worthwhile.

I'd carry a dwarven war axe and a hand axe(don't worry about the short sword, axes are much more dwarven) so that if you need the extra to hit then you can switch to it.

EDIT: ah i see how you are reducing the TWF penalties for the shield now (Shield Master)

so i guess you're taking the TWF combat style and picking up the shield feats as you need them?


I think you will find that grabbing a light weapon and running with power attack is a better option than taking an extra -2 to hit for a possible 0-4 extra damage. Really, just wield whatever you think your character would want :)


yeah, taking the three TWF feats through ranger so I can skip the dex requirement. Probably looking at dwarven defender (or whatever it is called now) at some point.

Grand Lodge RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Sloanzilla wrote:
The shield slam=automatic is interesting. I have to get it if I want shield mastery. But I could easily see times when I don't want to push someone back (like when I want to finish a full attack).

Keep in mind that you can take your 5' step between attacks when you make a full attack.

Shadow Lodge

Jiggy wrote:
Sloanzilla wrote:
The shield slam=automatic is interesting. I have to get it if I want shield mastery. But I could easily see times when I don't want to push someone back (like when I want to finish a full attack).
Keep in mind that you can take your 5' step between attacks when you make a full attack.

and if you bullrush the person more than once it's still going to be a problem


since it looks like R.A.W. says you don't get a choice as to whether or not you activate the bull rush attempt, I guess I should clarify if that is what was intended.

Shadow Lodge

4 people marked this as FAQ candidate.

Seems like we need a FAQ to clear this up

So when you shield bash while having the feat Shield Slam can you choose not to make the bull rush attempt?


The effect is supposed to be beneficial, and in cases like these, beneficial effects are always supposed to help, not harm... RAI you have the choice to use it.

Grand Lodge

A heavy shield is a one-handed weapon, so you could just wield it with two hands. This is a much better way to go, if you are focusing on fighting with a shield.


the feat chain allows you to attack without penalty with a shield, so in this case, it is sometimes actually better to 2WF.

Shadow Lodge

blackbloodtroll wrote:
A heavy shield is a one-handed weapon, so you could just wield it with two hands. This is a much better way to go, if you are focusing on fighting with a shield.

oh god, the imagery, just pictured a dwarf smacking people with a spiked shield, kinda WWE style but instead of the fold up chair, it's an awesome shield


You could put a shield in both hands. :) (One light, one heavy)
No AC bonus, but whatever shield boosting attack abilities you have would apply to both. :)
(Maybe I shouldn't share this because somebody I want a cannonball Dwarf who does just this.)


Two-handed shield fighting ... two-shield fighting ...

It is intended that fighting with a shield is better (with some prerequisites) than fighting with a weapon?


Edgar Lamoureux wrote:

1. Yes.

2. Debatable. Personally, I would say you can opt out, but it looks as if it is automatic.
3. You can use your shield bash as a primary attack.
4. I know it was debated before, and if your GM is fine with it, that's fine.
5. No clue.
6. Yes.

1. agreed

2. agreed
3. agreed
4. definitely an FAQ question, the math behind huge weapons is screwy (the averages go up much faster), I would make it 2d8 instead since that's closer.
5. Yes, you can. In fact you can use that fact to go over the normal +10 limitation of bonuses. As a GM it makes me a bit nervous to see, but you'll be sinking a lot of gold into that shield so who knows if it will be broken.
6. agreed


Eridan wrote:

Two-handed shield fighting ... two-shield fighting ...

It is intended that fighting with a shield is better (with some prerequisites) than fighting with a weapon?

Depends on the weapon, though Captain America would tell you otherwise.


To clarify- are you suggesting 2D8 before or after lead blades?
1D4 (regular heavy shield) to 1D6 (with spikes) to 2D6 (with bashing) to 2D8 with lead blades? I could also see an argument that the 2 size increase from bashing doesn't stack with the 1 size increase with spikes, but there's no real basis for it.

Yeah, since the armor part of the shield now counts as a free weapon bonus with shield mastery, you can basically use the entire "spike" portion to get speed/holy/etc. It's kind of like a free 3.5 version of greater magic weapon.


Sloanzilla wrote:


1. Do double slice and two weapon rend apply to off hand shield attacks?
2. Is the free bull rush attack with shield slam automatic- or can I opt not to use it?
3. Can I do a shield bash with a single attack, or does it have to be off hand? (I know this has been debated- but I'm looking at my shield actually doing MORE damage than my waraxe).
4. If a spiked shield is +1 to size and "bashing" is +2, does that mean a +1 heavy spiked shield of bashing is 2D6+1 (plus strength) damage? and with lead blades that goes up to 3D6? (I know I'll be looking at -4 to hit if I use heavy)
5. Since shield master basically counts your shield as a magic weapon too, what happens if you also enchant your spikes? (I love that I'll have a better to hit w/ my off hand due to shield master also).
6. Does a +3 (to defense) heavy spiked shield then get around cold iron/silver DR if wielded by someone with the shield master feat? (since it would count as a +3 weapon)

1. Double Slice, yes. But, I can't see Two Weapon Rend working, because it states you attack with both weapons simultaneously. Virtually impossible to do with a shield.

2. I don't see why you would be compelled to use this feat if you didn't want to.
3. Again, conceptually I think a shield bash would be an off hand attack, but I can see you using a shield bash as a single, primary attack.
4. Judging from the example under the Bashing enchantment a Heavy Shield goes from 1d4 to 1d8+1, and a spike goes from 1d4 to 1d6. So, I would just continue to follow the downward progression on table 6-5 on page 145 of the core book. That would put a Spiked Heavy Shield of Bashing at 1d10+1.
5. As the Shield Mastery feat reads, you add your shield's enhancement bonus to attacks and damage. A +1 spike on a +2 shield would yield two enhancement bonuses on an attack, but since they are both enhancement bonuses, they would not stack. You just get the better bonus.
6. Yes.

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