Questions Re: succubus's profane gift

[Douglas Muir 406]

Profane gift: +2 to an ability score of your choice, sweet. But:

1) Under the RAW, you can't have a profane gift from more than one succubus. However, there appears to be no limit on the number of PGs an individual succubus can grant! This implies that succubi can go around handing out PGs like party favors. Is this right?

(Personally, I'd houserule it as 1 per Cha modifier, which would be 8 for an average succubus. But I'm wondering what the official ruling is.)

2) There's no guidance as to when a succubus would grant a PG. Could you just Summon one and ask nicely? After all, it gives her some benefits -- a permanent telepathic link with you, and the ability to use Suggestion on you. Since she gets Suggestion at will, that means she can just keep Suggesting stuff until you roll a 1. Which seems like a nice deal for her...

Few PCs or even NPCs would care to go for this. But I could imagine someone summoning a succubus and asking for a temporary boost, and then casting Protection from Chaos to cut the connection.

(I'd houserule that the demoness would have to be at least Friendly, and would have to perceive some gain to herself, even if it's just amusement value.)

Official rulings?

Doug M.

[Are]

1. I don't see any problem with the Succubus being able to grant her gift to any number of recipients. It's somewhat limited by being once-per-day though.

2. The Succubus should be helpful rather than just friendly. It's a gift, after all. However, if the summoner agrees to a kiss... Actually, I'd have the Succubus grant her profane gift as a kiss (or more) every time; some summoners might have second thoughts about that.

[Tacticslion]

Are wrote:

Actually, I'd have the Succubus grant her profane gift as a kiss (or more) every time; some summoners might have second thoughts about that.

Probably not as many as you might think. Especially given some of the subtext of Golarion...

But really, a succubus would want to get as much out of the deal as she could before providing her profane gift. She's a greedy demoness, after all. A kiss (or more) would be a perfect thing for a succubus to demand. Especially the "(or more)" as, despite the innuendo inherent in talking about "(or more)" and "succubus" in the same sentence, that could apply to vast array of things that a succubus would want: wealth, power, and the ever-greater ability to destroy and devour more people.

Also, the protection from chaos ain't such a hot idea, as a succubus can recall/end the profane gift any time she wants, and if she's aware that you've done something like that, then she's not going to be happy and might remove it in a fit of pique (even if you did it for your own reasons... she's chaotic after all, not to mention evil).

Probably what would happen:
A succubus would look, carefully, at any and every individual she came across, figuring (to the best of her understanding) whether or not they'd be a good candidate for her "gift". When the negotiation occurs, she'd seek to (via her insight through things like sense motive of detect thoughts) attempt to find the maximum possible amount that she could wring (while still appearing "generous") from the potential sucker before her. She'd probably make her gift seem all-the-more valuable by giving it a "mark-up" cost: making it seem more desirable than it really is by making the price higher than it should be. She could then negotiate down, and be seen as magnanimous... not like those other soul-sucking succubi (well, she is, but she's so nice, that she's better... [especially with her bluff and diplomacy]), and so on.

And that's not being terribly evil, that's just good business sense (although some might argue that "good business sense" is "terribly evil", but I digress).

Effectively, she doesn't want to hand out for free what she can hand out for a million dollars, 'cause she's evil and selfish. Now, if she thinks she can get a great deal more (and not simply burn bridges with thralls that'll be too difficult to manipulate/control, or not worth the effort of trying) then she'll take her "gift" and head elsewhere.

And make no mistake - simply handing it out to a lot of people and hoping for the best is *not* a good idea, as it will be begging to get smote, and suggestion can only do so much. Still, some might try it.

[Are]

Tacticslion wrote:

Are wrote:

Actually, I'd have the Succubus grant her profane gift as a kiss (or more) every time; some summoners might have second thoughts about that.

Probably not as many as you might think. Especially given some of the subtext of Golarion...

I was thinking more in line of how a Succubus could also use a kiss to drain energy; that's why I figured a summoner might have second thoughts about requesting a profane gift if it's received through such means. You'd never know if you're receiving a gift or being drained :)

Good post, by the way :)

[Tacticslion]

Are wrote:

I was thinking more in line of how a Succubus could also use a kiss to drain energy; that's why I figured a summoner might have second thoughts about requesting a profane gift if it's received through such means. You'd never know if you're receiving a gift or being drained :)

Good post, by the way :)

Heh, thanks! I actually knew what you meant, and was just being silly on purpose. :)

I'm glad that you like the ideas, though!

[Helic]

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:

1) Under the RAW, you can't have a profane gift from more than one succubus. However, there appears to be no limit on the number of PGs an individual succubus can grant! This implies that succubi can go around handing out PGs like party favors. Is this right?

Sure she can. There's a sucker born every minute!

Quote:

2) There's no guidance as to when a succubus would grant a PG. Could you just Summon one and ask nicely? After all, it gives her some benefits -- a permanent telepathic link with you, and the ability to use Suggestion on you. Since she gets Suggestion at will, that means she can just keep Suggesting stuff until you roll a 1. Which seems like a nice deal for her...

I imagine they hand them out like candy corn. Then they can just Suggestion them into self-destruction. And they will, because they're Chaotic Evil. And when things get really bad for the target, POOF you lose 2D6 Charisma. Cha-based casters get nerfed, and non-cha based casters might get knocked out if she rolls well.

Profane gift costs the succubus NOTHING, grants her huge power over the target (DC21 Suggestion at will). If you block her influence, she just cuts you off. The only time I'd think receiving a Profane Gift was worth it was if I had a Succubus cohort (nominally actually loyal). She's still manipulate the hell out of you, but just not in a way that was destructive to you (just everyone else).

For short term Profane Gifts, I'd suggest a heaping helping of Dominate Monster (granted, that's 9th level spell...never said it would be easy..).

Really, +2 to to a stat is NOT worth all the trouble you're getting as part of the package.

[Douglas Muir 406]

Tacticslion wrote:

But really, a succubus would want to get as much out of the deal as she could before providing her profane gift... wealth, power, and the ever-greater ability to destroy and devour more people.

I would agree with that, but I'd also add "for lulz" to that list. I think a succubus would be perfectly willing to grant her profane gift for pure malicious amusement.

I note that under the RAW, it appears she could grant it to a neutral or good character who was not aware what s/he was getting! So, an "angel" could plant a chaste kiss on a paladin's forehead, granting +2 to Cha... until the worst possible moment.

Combining the two scenarios above: Mister J the evil caster summons Harley the succubus and plies her with gold, fine wine and flattery until her attitude is at least Friendly. He then turns her loose on the neutral members of his party, Harvey, Edward and Selina. Before long they all have profane gifts -- and are beginning a downward spiral into evil and madness under Harley's relentless barrage of suggestion.

Tacticslion wrote:

the protection from chaos ain't such a hot idea, as a succubus can recall/end the profane gift any time she wants, and if she's aware that you've done something like that, then she's not going to be happy and might remove it in a fit of pique

Well, you'd have to catch her unawares. And it probably wouldn't work twice on the same gal.

Also, in theory you could get her to grant it to something that is immune to Suggestion -- a construct, say. I doubt your average succubus would like this much. But she might agree in return for a nice bribe, or alternately to avoid being the target of a Binding spell or something equally unpleasant.

As you point out, it's a lot of work for a +2 bonus.

Doug M.