Four main questions here:
1) If a creature manages to die in a Dead Magic demiplane, is their soul released as per usual? Does it matter if there is, or isn't, a permanent planar portal?
2) Does a living creature(that breathes Air) in a Timeless plane need to breathe to live?
3)(Edited) Can one Dispel or Suppress the Portal leading to a demiplane?
4) Are there any other creative ways to Gate into, or out of, such a demiplane, if the planar portal exists? if it doesn't? Can you Move a permanent planar portal? What do they mean by Securing it?
...To explain my idea:
Planning ahead for the future. Trapping souls seems like it'd be quite expensive. Even if you can use the same black sapphire focus many times, you'd need a Continuous mind blank on that thing, and be prepared for virtually every native or extraplanar deity to get on your arse for locking away their little brother. Plus, they get a Will saving throw( Unless you use Trap the Soul, in which case you need a new Material cost every time...). People can find you. Kill you. Shatter the little gemstone(s). The world's once again in chaos.
Instead, I was thinking about creating a Demiplane I'd call the "Oubliette". The Oubliette would have the following features:
-Big enough to fit a Huge creature.
-Darkness & Water-filled
-Timeless
-Permanent Portal'd
-Objective Gravity (towards Center of the demiplane)
-Dead Magic
The total cost would still be about 20,000gp. If my assumptions are correct, Nothing can get in or out; Dead or alive, once that Portal is sealed shut. When I die, creatures will Still be trapped. The only way creatures will even Know of the Oubliette's existence, is through sheer knowledge of Myself or divine intervention.
Eternally drowning in darkness, yet never dying...
Unfortunately, there are two little flaws with my plan, so far, that I see. The first is that the Soul of the creature might actually still escape the Oubliette, especially if the portal remains open. This is of even greater danger if they're capable of Drowning in a timeless plane of existence. The second is that the Demiplane somehow finds itself Dispelled. Despite the permanency being cast on an Area (Which, in turn, allows No Magic, and is impossible to reach otherwise), and no other text explicitly stating this is possible. This worries me.
So.
That annoying Necromancer got you down, with his infinite clones and countless followers ready to recall his soul over and over? Got a Barbarian or a Rogue handy? No Problem! Just open up your good ol' portal to the Plane-of-I-don't-give-a-f~$!. Tell your rogue to knock em out cold, and send them in. Or just get your Barbarian to Bull rush the F*cker through. Laugh as the cute little necromancer tries to swim out. Close the portal. Problem solved.
Personally, I was thinking of conceiving a rather large, horizontal portal. I could fix a slab of metal or some other form of lid on top of it when not in use, and simply Teleport an unconscious creature directly above it, where they would fall in, and be sealed. But, again, if the Soul can escape, that can be a problem. Any time something Other than what I want to seal falls in, I can simply eject them out.
Personally, I was hoping to convince a GM into researching a way I could eject the demiplane itself out, past Limbo, and to the edge of existence, or Out of the 'Great Beyond' entirely...
Thoughts? Comments?
EDIT:
Another problem I foresee:
Closing the portal means I'd need to cast the spell from inside my own demiplane. There's no fathomable way to do so, really, once the Dead Magic trait is initiated, so far as I can see. Sealing it off physically or magically is just as well, with a barrier and some Antimagic; However, would that still allow a Soul to escape?
EDIT 2: Alright. Seems I've misread. Granted it'd a Dead Magic plane, it really doesn't seem like it can be dispelled at all, since the appropriate spells can't be cast within the plane. The question then is thus edited to: Can one Dispel or Suppress the Portal leading to a plane? Also, I wonder if I'd still have the ability to Eject others out... or even end the demiplane, once it's made.
That's a tricky one...
1) I don't believe that magic (or a dead meagic area, for that matter) has anything to do with what happens to one's soul when they die, on the Prime Material Plane or any other. But it is probably related to the world you're playing and it's rules about afterlife etc.
...
3) and 4) I think that it is impossible to move a portal. But I believe you can destroy or suppress it with antimagic. The problem with an antimagic field would be to make it permanent, since it is not in the list of spells that permanency can be applied to (and therefore it's subject to GM's approval whether it can be done). Alternatively, build a massive, compact building on top of it. Made of iron. Or teleport a mountain :p
Don't know if it actually helps. Your real problem is GM's opinion. On the other hand, it is an interesting plan to gat rid of an annoying opponent and i think your GM should reward your creativity. And even if the necromancer finds a way to escape, this would just mean that the campaign would go on -the game never ends!
Thank you =D
Although, I believe you may be correct, with the GM's opinion. The entire Soul-trap aspect of it is what makes it an Especially attractive alternative. I mean, granted it would be Forcing any creature trapped within to actively find a way to commit suicide, in order to escape... If they Can escape, there's always a Chance they can come back.
The Dead Magic description explicitly says that even You, the caster, the one that can typically eject yourself from your own plane, can no longer escape. Nothing gets in Or out. Nothing. And if the portal is supressed, just *maybe* that Also includes the soul. Furthermore, their Body would still be in the equivalent of an antimagic field (if that actually inhibits anything).
I wish I could send in a soul-eating demon, but most of Their abilities aren't Extraordinary, only Supernatural; IF there's an exception, though, that'd be Excellent.
A little bit of revision; The whole building thing was my First idea. ^_^ of course, I wanted the portal to be re-usable. So, here's my second idea instead: Have a magical candle in the center of the Portal's area, suspended by the ceiling. Use-activated antimagic field, centered on the circle below.
...Just Dare someone to blow out THAT candle... And sink into the darkness below.
EDIT: Bah, humbug. Maybe I'll just send in a few undead of my own, instead. XD
EDIT 2: Better yet, I'll take their body out... Make them undead... and send them back in, to hold down future visitors!
Well, you get really creative when it comes to Insidiously Sadistic Devices, I see :0
I'm sorry, but Pathfinder is one of two things to me; An excellent means to tell stories/roleplay, and an excellent means to plot the most exotic death possible for those that rub you wrong. And their extended family.
Err... I mean... Whatever do you mean?! I'm Neutral-Good, I swear <3
Say, have you seen my Candlestick? It's in the basement...
*cough*
Now, I wonder what'd happen if I threw in a Lich's phylactery... Or Magic Jar...
Anyone else want to take a crack at the questions? Clarification on Souls would be nice...
|
Well, I dunno if you've got access to the ol' Spell Compendium, but there's a 6th level spell in there called "Seal Portal" that'll shut down any form of portal or gate for the low, low cost of 50gp. Sure, the "Seal Portal" can be dispelled, but it's an extra layer of protection.
Actually, I think you can opt to only have certain categories of magic be non-functional within the demiplane. Perhaps everything but whatever form of stasis magic you choose to employ.
Or maybe you could give it the Timeless trait with respect to magic; who needs a permanent-duration form of binding when the plane itself won't let the duration expire? Throw in a "mind fog" to zap their Will saves, and maybe a "stinking cloud" for additional insult . . . hell get a "regeneration" cast on them and release a swarm of undead beetles to feast on their ever-regenerating body whilst they writhe in agony, straining at their bindings.
I've been thinking about "create demiplane" quite a bit lately, but I haven't thought of using it as a long-term torture dungeon. Gonna hafta ponder that concept fer a bit . . .
Or maybe you could give it the Timeless trait with respect to magic; who needs a permanent-duration form of binding when the plane itself won't let the duration expire? Throw in a "mind fog" to zap their Will saves, and maybe a "stinking cloud" for additional insult . . . hell get a "regeneration" cast on them and release a swarm of undead beetles to feast on their ever-regenerating body whilst they writhe in agony, straining at their bindings.
And I never thought of That. o.O
Thank you, for increasing my potential arsenal tenfold... Abuse of the Timeless Trait. Love every idea.
However, No, I don't believe the Dead Magic planar trait can be selective, unfortunately. That in turn would make any perverse, timeless Magical tortures disabled, and still risk the trapped creatures being able to escape. And I haven't yet found "Seal Portal"..will keep looking...
That being said, the Key question to be answered is still whether a Soul can escape, should the residents of the plane manage to Still somehow commit suicide...
Souls generally head off into the afterlife regardless of what plane you're on when you die or the presence/absence of magic. Now, in certain editions and certain places and/or under certain conditions, a soul could be hijacked and forced to another plane than where it's intended, but that required magical power. For example, souls could be condemned to Hell with the right magics from the Fiendish Codex of 3.5 origin IIRC. Magic has nothing to do with the fundamental transference of the soul to the afterlife and in fact it requires potent magic to stop the process (trap the soul and soul bind, for example). Generally speaking, souls only have been trapped on the most evil of planes (Hell, the Abyss, Hades) in previous editions, so bear this in mind.
Magic has nothing to do with the fundamental transference of the soul to the afterlife and in fact it requires potent magic to stop the process (trap the soul and soul bind, for example).
I perceive this far differently, however...
Magic has a ton of methods to block off the soul, and many ways to retrieve it. Most spells explicitly state this as their purpose, and state what sort of conditions need to be met to bring a soul back. Ironically, the "dying of old age" clause is about the only occasion that ultimately cuts a soul's ties to the Inner planes, regardless of magic.
Otherwise, it only takes a feeble little spell or a supernatural ability to direct a soul where you want it to go. Therefore, even if there's a "natural" transition for a soul to pass on to one of the outer planes for eternity, I believe the presence of magic Can and Will hinder a soul's ultimate path, And that a soul magically kept bound in one place does Not naturally transcend it.
There just aren't already existing occurrences in Pathfinder, that I know of, that do this. There is no plane of existence, as far as I know, in pathfinder, with the Dead Magic trait: a Plane that is seemingly entirely cut off, even from the Astral/Ethereal where it resides.
I just don't know what a soul Is actually able to pass through, if there Is a Gate/Portal to another plane. Normally, these gates allow typical, corporeal creatures through; However, a Dead Magic plane explicitly states that the only way Into or Out of that plane is through the planar Portal. Does that connection to another plane still exist, even if it's suppressed by Antimagic on the opposite end?
...On the other hand, you May be right. This Demiplane would still reside within another plane. Perhaps souls are capable of moving in and out freely. At this point, it really does seem like it's a battle of "how well I can convince a GM that my idea Traps the soul", anyways.