Hellcat Pounce
Benefit: Whenever you attack and damage an opponent in the surprise round, you may immediately make a second attack against the same opponent using the same attack bonus. The target is not considered flat-footed against this second attack.
Surprise Attack (Ex)
Benefit: During the surprise round, opponents are always considered flat-footed to a rogue with this ability, even if they have already acted.
Does Surprise Attack change Hellcat pounce, so that every hit gets Sneak Attack?
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Well, specific overrides general.
Since surprise attack covers all surprise rounds, and hellcat pounce only covers attacking and damaging opponents in a surprise round, I'd call hellcat pounce the more specific entry.
So Hellcat pounce would actually override the surprise attack ability, causing the target to not be considered flat-footed for the second attack.
Does Surprise Attack change Hellcat pounce, so that every hit gets Sneak Attack?
No
The target is not considered flat-footed against this second attack.
- is in there specifically to prevent rogues from getting two sneak attacks in a surprise round.
Ah too bad.
I already saw my character having 6 possible attacks with sneak attack covered by underhanded and clustered shots in the surprise round^^
Would have been cheesy though....came to 378 possible damage on one attack.
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Ah right i forgot about that again.
Well if the oponent is evil and within 30 feet, the character could still do about 53 damage with one shot that has +25 to hit.
Im just playing around with different feats and possibilities of Ultimate Combat and Magic to get a feel of it.
Another question:
Does the Bludgeneor feat lift the restriction of not being able to do nonlethal damage with normal bludgeoning weapons from the ninja?
If so there would be a nice build with bludgeneor, sap adept and sap master. Very nice for rogues too, you would do a ton of nonlethal damage.
Add that with a sling and clustered shots and you can have a halfing who knocks out foes by giving them a bullett to the head.
Seems like a nice picture to me, especially a halfling not doing lethal damage often. Great options for roleplay.
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I would think it should allow you to deal nonlethal bludgeoning with the ninja. Just be aware that the sap master feat that doubles your sneak attack dice can only be used when the enemy is flat-footed. Which is very different from the sneak attack requirement of *denied dexterity to ac, or flanking*.
To make that work, you'll need to do something like dazzling display and also pick up shatter defenses in order to make your opponent flat-footed to you. Just flanking won't get you the double sneak attack damage.
And then you're burning a round making the dazzling display :(
I would think it should allow you to deal nonlethal bludgeoning with the ninja. Just be aware that the sap master feat that doubles your sneak attack dice can only be used when the enemy is flat-footed. Which is very different from the sneak attack requirement of *denied dexterity to ac, or flanking*.
To make that work, you'll need to do something like dazzling display and also pick up shatter defenses in order to make your opponent flat-footed to you. Just flanking won't get you the double sneak attack damage.
And then you're burning a round making the dazzling display :(
Take dazzling display as a Prereq never use it. Use Enforcer feat instead. You still get a intimidate check whenever you attack (those they are still demoralized) and deal nonlethal. They are Shaken for damage rounds. So Shatter Defenses activates making every attack after 1st a sneak attack that adds Sap master.
With the use of invisible blade there should be no problem of oponents not being flat footed. Unless someone can see invisibility.
But its better in melee somehow.
You can combine it with unarmed strike, knockout artist and later Unarmed Combat Mastery to do damage as a monk -4 lvl´s.
For this build you could also take first level in monk and then buy monk robes, giving you 5 monk levels.
At level 11 you then do damage like a monk at level 12 and you have +1 AC.
Another question:
The rouge bandit archetype lets you do this:
Ambush (Ex)
At 4th level, a bandit becomes fully practiced in the art of ambushing. When she acts in the surprise round, she can take a move action, standard action, and swift action during the surprise round, not just a move or standard action.
move action + standard action = full action = full attack?
That could make the surprise deal perhaps hehe.
I´m a bit confused now.
So, as a bandit, can i make a full attack action in the surprise round or not?
I´m a bit confused now.
So, as a bandit, can i make a full attack action in the surprise round or not?
No. You can take a standard action, a move action, and a swift action. Normally it's either a standard action or a move action.
It's also not a full round, as the feat specifies what actions you can take. It does not let you take a full attack action, since you do not have a full round action to spend.
I see.
So there is no way to make more than one attack in the surprise round?
I see.
So there is no way to make more than one attack in the surprise round?
Well, the actual monster ability "Pounce" would allow it. Hydras can be nasty on a partial charge out of hiding. So, a the barbarian rage totem power that grants pounce would allow it (it's like the 3rd in a chain and you have to be fairly high level to select it). Outside of that, no way that pops off the top of my head.
Mh ten levels babarian are a it much to dip in.
Also a monster Feat is hard to get.
The idea is actually make a rogue/ninja character that has superstealth (skillfocus stealth and hellcat stealth do that) and just appears surprising his enemies and does a awful lot of damage, but doesnt really stay in fight. If possible with ranged attack too, hence the clustered shots.
Apologies in advance for the thread necromancy but I had a related question and couldn't find another thread dealing with it.
Bandit doesn't work to make full attacks in the surprise round, and surprise attack doesn't work with Hellcat Pounce, but would the Bandit's Ambush ability let you use an that extra move action to utilize Improved Feint during your pounce?
So, attacking from stealth: "Surprise, sucka'!" *Sneak Attack*
Move action granted by Ambush: *feints*
Hellcat Pounce activates: "Surprise again!" *Sneak Attack*
Does that work?