My group and I started the campagne last night and as thought they wiped out the banits and at Olegs post and they managed to get all the horse's they are now double moving though the Hex's at 100ft (hourse speed being 50 ft )
taking about a day to explore a hex, will this have much of an impacted on the game?
My group and I started the campagne last night and as thought they wiped out the banits and at Olegs post and they managed to get all the horse's they are now double moving though the Hex's at 100ft (hourse speed being 50 ft )
taking about a day to explore a hex, will this have much of an impacted on the game?
Horses can't double move all day, or they'll die. They take 1 damage the first hour, 2 the second, 4 the third, 8 the fourth, 16 the fifth, 32 the sixth, 64 the seventh, and 128 the eighth hour (and it's lethal damage for horses).
So, if the horses have 256 or more hit points, it shouldn't be a problem.
So, if the horses have 256 or more hit points, it shouldn't be a problem.
To the left, yes, horses will allow exploration of hills and plains in one day. This isn't so bad, though. The first couple of books, these hexes will be present the most, but after that there are mountains and swamps and other terrain where it'll take two or three days by horses. And some may be impassible by horse.
Just don't forget that, when confronted by encounters, your PCs may be mounted and need to make ride checks or dismount before they can do anything...
I was expecting a lot of things from my group but not them running around on horse like that all day.
Thanks i had thought about the mounted combat and them having to dismounting witch would effect the Pc's in combat :-)
To frozen forever is that info in the bestiary? so when i pull them up I can show them the text.
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There are a couple things that come to mind to limit the double move. This is out in unexplored unknown territory, simply require the party to make a number of handle animal checks to properly care for and ride the horses. If you don't want them double moving, tell that person the horses are getting strained, have them pull up lame, get sick, get recalcitrant, etc. If you have a paladin or a cavalier with a horse animal companion, have it get grumpy with the player till they back off. If they press on, have horses break legs, collapse due to exhaustion, etc. Also, have druids, rangers, fey, and other nature friendly folk respond negatively to their mistreatment of their horses. This isnt being mean, its being realistic with how mounts are supposed to be treated.
Taking care of your horses in this game can be a matter of life and death. A strained overworked horse is less likely to outrun that willowisp, band of trolls, or shambling mound when you need it most. Horses become easy targets of enemies due to lower AC or just being tastier, and night attacks on camp usually scatters the mounts. If they are tied down, they can become easy prey to wolves or other predators. Having to chase down stray horses that ran off in the middle of the night a few times and having their movement reduced due to horse deaths out in the field quickly made my party fairly protective of their horses, and they try very hard to take good care of them and keep them out of harms way. They also take along a few spares :)
If you are like me, I used to simply overlook most ride checks during mounted combat. Having to make ride checks for every round of combat in every encounter gets quite annoying if you have a lousy ride check.
For instance, we have a oracle of life in my game whose got an 8 dex and 1 ranks in ride, and unless he rolls extremely well, pretty much falls off his horse every combat, and that is at 5th level. Early on, the party invested in combat trained horses, took at least one rank in ride, and bought special saddles to improve their ride skills because of these difficulties. Several who have poor ride checks have gotten in the habit of just dismounting at the beginning of each combat and chasing their horse down afterwards rather than risk falling off prone during a combat.
One really good side effect was that a fighter and cavalier in my game who maxed their ranks suddenly became that much more effective in combat, which was actually a bit more fair to them considering their skill rank investment.
A horse has a 16 strength, so the carrying capacity table shows STR: 16, Light: 76 lbs. or less, Medium: 77–153 lbs., Heavy: 154–230 lbs. Multiply by 3 gives, Light: 238 or less, Medium 239-459, Heavy: 460-690.
How much does the fighter (200#) in chainmail (40#) or heavier armor weight? I'll bet the horse is down to Medium at least, and add in shield, weapons, pack and gear and it may reach Heavy.
The Reduced Movement Table in the PRD shows the speed to be 35. And as others say, horses, nor people, can double move all day long.
So using the table in the 1st chapter and rounding down to 30 movement, as it doesn't have a 35 increment, you have the following:
Traveling (Time to cross 1 hex)
Party Speed..Plains....All Other Terrains
30 feet......5 hours...8 hours
Exploring (Time to fully explore 1 hex)
.....................Forest...Mountain
Party Speed..Plains..or Hill..or Swamp
30 feet......1 day...2 days...3 days
-- david
Papa.DRB
My group and I started the campagne last night and as thought they wiped out the banits and at Olegs post and they managed to get all the horse's they are now double moving though the Hex's at 100ft (hourse speed being 50 ft )
taking about a day to explore a hex, will this have much of an impacted on the game?
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My group and I started the campagne last night and as thought they wiped out the banits and at Olegs post and they managed to get all the horse's they are now double moving though the Hex's at 100ft (hourse speed being 50 ft )
taking about a day to explore a hex, will this have much of an impacted on the game?
The movement of the horses (and any issues with that were already addressed) isn't much of an issue. In my party, early on they took to upgrading to warhorses. After hearing me plan for months on running Kingmaker, they were primed to take advantage of the nature of the AP by spending feats on mounted combat that they'd never spend in other style campaigns. The warhorses were so potent in combat that there were times I was tempted to give the horses the xp and count the PC's as hirelings.
Only the thought of a horse with class levels stopped me.
To frozen forever is that info in the bestiary? so when i pull them up I can show them the text.
Urk, I don't have a page number. But in the PRD just search for "Forced March." It's in that section.
It's not good to push your horses too hard!
Kingmaker is made for horsemen. It's no secret seeing as how the first fight pretty much dumps four free horses on the players while each subsequent bandit battle nets them another few horses each. Considering the exploration theme and that so much of the campaign occurs in wilderness locales this is the perfect opportunity for those wishing to focus on mounted combat and to select equine bonded mounts and animal companions. So embrace horsemanship!
My players and I have made horses and horsemanship the cornerstone of our Kingmaker campaign. The group made a joint background in which they are the scions of a proud though down-on-its-luck Brevic family of horse breeders/trainers. We even created a fictional breed of large white destriers, the Mareschal, which is the family's namesake and signature breed. As a reward for their joint effor, their allocation of Ride and Animal Handling skill ranks and in procuring themselves each a riding horse before game play, I upgraded each of their mounts to a war-trained heavy horse (with light armor proficiency rather than endurance) for free. The party's ranger and paladin both intend to have their horses become their bonded companions once they reach fourth level.
The party's horses have proven invaluable in combat and even outside of combat thanks to their ability to impress the common folk as well as their keen perception skills. If one of the horses notices something alarming in the environment I have its PC in turn make an appropriate skill check to notice the agitation of his or her mount. The PCs take their mounts into consideration in most instances, including changing their exploration plans to accommodate the horses' need for feed, pasturage, water or rest. It even led them to construct an extension to Oleg's stables, a exterior paddock and a modest smithy for re-shooing their horses as necessary. They also plan to continue breeding and training additional Mareschal horses as the campaign continues. I'm thinking of creating a little horsebreeding mini-game to run concurrently with the kingdom-building mini-game. Suggestions on how to go about it are welcome if anyone has ideas.
It's not that I'm not enbracing it, I think it will be a lot of fun for the group to run around on horse's instead of them walking all the time. But as it is they will double move though the Hex's all the time and end up killing their steeds which is something I dont wont and I said "I was expecting a lot of things from my group but not them running around on horse like that all day", I ment the double movement and not them running around on horse back.
I do have a ranger and a paladin in the group and I am going to encourage them to have the steads as their animal companion ( they would be a bit daft if they didn't)
Also Oleg has taken it upon himself and is alraedy in the process of ordering the iteams they need to advanve the compaions.
Well, if their characters have any ranks in Knowledge (nature) or Handle Animal you can explain to them that, because of a horse's nature, it's entirely possible to ride them to death and that's what they risk doing if they insist on double-moving their mounts all day long. If they insist on proceeding then fine; tabulate the damage and have the horses collapse and die at the appropriate time. Maybe then they'll get the idea and learn to take better care of their next horses.
If you want to learn how to properly portray horses in a fantasy campaign I'd strongly recommend reading Writing Horses: The Fine Art of Getting It Right by Judith Tarr. Very informative, plainly written and a fast read.
Thanks for all the input.
I told my players that I would be taking their average speed when exploring/mapping. The horses will indeed cause them to go quicker through certain areas, but will (on average) slow them down an equal amount (due to terrain, feeding, caring for, ...)
They were okay with it, and in return I almost never harrass them with the difficulties their horses are experiencing.
(Except for close combat, horses are tasty nom-nom ^^)