Regneration is an (Ex) ability. So, its not an spell.
And Bleed says it stopped by any Spell that cures Hit Point damage.
So by RAW Regeneration doesnt stop Bleed.
Is this correct or am i missing something.
I did Houserule that Bleed is stopped by Regeneration (as it allows you to attach a limb which then grows back, so any ruptured bloodvesels should be able to be fixed as well by this ability), but i would really like to know if there is any rules supporting this (I am kinda RAW addict ;P )
Well, that shows that the intention by the designers is that Regeneration also stop bleed. Thanx.
Well, that shows that the intention by the designers is that Regeneration also stop bleed. Thanx.
Also note that in Universal Monster Rules section of Bestiary bleed effects are described as being ended by any magical healing (thus being any supernatural effects, like channel energy, lay on hands, monk's wholeness of body, any supernatural fast healing/regeneration ends bleed). Personally, I think that any hit point healing should end bleed effects as I see no reason why magical hit point healing would do this and extraordinary hit point healing would not.
Well, if u look at Regeneration, u see its an Extraordinary Ability (Ex).
On Page 554 of the PFCR its say (Ex) is nonmagical. So by RAW (in PFCR) Regeneration doesnt stop Bleed effect.
But the link TriOmegaZero provided points to the designers intend it to be able to stop bleed.
And on the point of Fast Healing, i dont think i would allow that to be able to counter Bleed, as it does not Regenerate Lost limbs etc. (and that to is an (Ex) ability)
but it also states "some of the effects, such as bleeding..." and i know no other effect that has to do with bleeding, but Bleed.
|
but it also states "some of the effects, such as bleeding..." and i know no other effect that has to do with bleeding, but Bleed.
I think that most of the rules are written for normal players, not players who nitpick every minor inconsistency and make rulings that blatantly disregard the obvious intentions of the designers based on those minor inconsistencies.
Well, if u look at Regeneration, u see its an Extraordinary Ability (Ex).
On Page 554 of the PFCR its say (Ex) is nonmagical. So by RAW (in PFCR) Regeneration doesnt stop Bleed effect.
There were some monsters that had Fast Healing or Regeneration as supernatural instead of extraordinary - in their case, by RAW their abilities would be stoppoing bleed effects. I can't recall if they made it between 3.5 to Pathfinder yet, however.
And on the point of Fast Healing, i dont think i would allow that to be able to counter Bleed, as it does not Regenerate Lost limbs etc. (and that to is an (Ex) ability)
I agree that regular Fast Healing being extraordinary by RAW makes it unable to prevent bleeding. I disagree that fact that Fast Healing does not regenerate lost limbs would be viable excuse of excluding it from stopping bleed effects if the magical healing clause was overruled/changed - Heal skill also isn't capable of regenerating lost limbs and yet is enough to stop bleeding.
Bleed is not intended to be stopped solely by magic.
Bleed: A creature that is taking bleed damage takes the listed amount of damage at the beginning of its turn. Bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or through the application of any spell that cures hit point damage (even if the bleed is ability damage). Some bleed effects cause ability damage or even ability drain. Bleed effects do not stack with each other unless they deal different kinds of damage. When two or more bleed effects deal the same kind of damage, take the worse effect. In this case, ability drain is worse than ability damage.
Further, in the rogue talent it's very, very similar but...
Bleeding Attack* (Ex): A rogue with this ability can cause living opponents to bleed by hitting them with a sneak attack. This attack causes the target to take 1 additional point of damage each round for each die of the rogue’s sneak attack (e.g., 4d6 equals 4 points of bleed). Bleeding creatures take that amount of damage every round at the
start of each of their turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage. Bleeding damage from this ability does not stack with itself. Bleeding damage bypasses any damage reduction the creature might possess.
Given the inclusion in both cases of a Heal check stopping bleeding (DC the same as First Aid), I have a lot of difficulty disallowing Fast Healing or Regeneration from also ending the bleed condition. They certainly end a rogue's bleed.
but it also states "some of the effects, such as bleeding..." and i know no other effect that has to do with bleeding, but Bleed.I think that most of the rules are written for normal players, not players who nitpick every minor inconsistency and make rulings that blatantly disregard the obvious intentions of the designers based on those minor inconsistencies.
Hehe, true, but we are on a message forum. There is a LOT of people on forums who nitpick every minor inconsistency and blatantly ignore the obvious intent behind the design of abilities ;)
And seeing the rogue ability, im inclined to agree that even Fast healing stops Bleed.
So over to a related Question:
Would ANY amount of Regeneration or Fast Healing stop ALL Bleed? Or would you just decrease the amount of Bleed by the amount the creature have in Fast Healing and Regeneration? So if he has Bleed: 8, and Regeneration (Ex) 5 (Fire/Acid), stop 5 Bleed (and not receive any Regeneration to Hit Point that round/also regenerat 5 Hit Points), or would it stop all 8 points of Bleed and also Regenerate 5 Hit Points?
Noone have any additional input on my follow up question?
Not sure why you'd want to make it that complicated.
The rules say it's stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any healing. Keep it simple, it'll be far less annoying than "Bleeding is stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any magical healing, and any fast healing or regeneration slows bleed damage by the amount of the fast healing, and oh yeah we have to figure out how fast healing affects ability bleed, uh, let's say each instance of fast healing slows it by 1 point ... wait, is that per ability or do we choose one at random? Let's say it reduces the bleed damage of the highest ability bleed by one, unless there's a tie and we choose the most "significant" one ... we'll say the order is Con/Dex/Str/Int/Wis/Cha unless you're a sorcerer and then it's Con/Cha/Dex/Str/Int/Wis ... oh and I guess a rogue should be ..."
Please. Keep it simple :)
Well, if u look at Regeneration, u see its an Extraordinary Ability (Ex).
On Page 554 of the PFCR its say (Ex) is nonmagical. So by RAW (in PFCR) Regeneration doesnt stop Bleed effect.
But the link TriOmegaZero provided points to the designers intend it to be able to stop bleed.And on the point of Fast Healing, i dont think i would allow that to be able to counter Bleed, as it does not Regenerate Lost limbs etc. (and that to is an (Ex) ability)
The regenerate spell which is where the link goes to is magical healing so it would work. Natural regen is still out of luck.
Not sure why you'd want to make it that complicated.
The rules say it's stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any healing. Keep it simple, it'll be far less annoying than "Bleeding is stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or any magical healing, and any fast healing or regeneration slows bleed damage by the amount of the fast healing, and oh yeah we have to figure out how fast healing affects ability bleed, uh, let's say each instance of fast healing slows it by 1 point ... wait, is that per ability or do we choose one at random? Let's say it reduces the bleed damage of the highest ability bleed by one, unless there's a tie and we choose the most "significant" one ... we'll say the order is Con/Dex/Str/Int/Wis/Cha unless you're a sorcerer and then it's Con/Cha/Dex/Str/Int/Wis ... oh and I guess a rogue should be ..."
Please. Keep it simple :)
Hehe, K.I.S.S is always a good rule to follow true. But the rules do not say ANY healing, it says any Magical healing, which per raw Regeneration and Fast healing is not, but from reading entries from different abilities on classes and feats, it strongly suggest RAI is that i does. So since there is no specific rules how Regenereation or Fast healing interact with Bleed, we have to create some ;)
A DC 15 Heal check to stop bleeding i understand, as thats an standard action focused on stopping the bleeding. But does a "passive" ability automatically negate all the Bleed, or does it heal the bleeding, stopping it gradually, just like it would heal HP gradually?
And the scenario with Ability bleeding is moot as neither Regeneration, nor Fast healing heal Str/Dex/Con/Wis/Int/Cha.
Seeing at the ring of regeneration makes you immune to bleed effect this kind of moot argument.
From the PRD
This white gold ring is generally set with a large green sapphire. When worn, the ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per round and an equal amount of nonlethal damage. In addition, he is immune to bleed damage while wearing a ring of regeneration. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, Ring of Regeneration is based on the Spell Regeneration, and not on Regeneration (Ex) which has two different effects.
The spell heals damage magically and therefor stops bleeding.
Anyway, i think i'll rule in my group that Regeneretion (Ex) stops all Bleed, even though its not magical healing. Less Book-keeping, and the different examples above suggest Regeneration and Fast Healing effects does stop bleeding.
Well, Ring of Regeneration is based on the Spell Regeneration, and not on Regeneration (Ex) which has two different effects.
The spell heals damage magically and therefor stops bleeding.
Anyway, i think i'll rule in my group that Regeneretion (Ex) stops all Bleed, even though its not magical healing. Less Book-keeping, and the different examples above suggest Regeneration and Fast Healing effects does stop bleeding.
If a DC 15 heal check will do it, i don't see why Regen(Ex) or fast healing wouldn't give the same or better results and also stop it.
If a DC 15 heal check will do it, i don't see why Regen(Ex) or fast healing wouldn't give the same or better results and also stop it.Well, Ring of Regeneration is based on the Spell Regeneration, and not on Regeneration (Ex) which has two different effects.
The spell heals damage magically and therefor stops bleeding.
Anyway, i think i'll rule in my group that Regeneretion (Ex) stops all Bleed, even though its not magical healing. Less Book-keeping, and the different examples above suggest Regeneration and Fast Healing effects does stop bleeding.
Logically I would go with fast healing or regen working, but the rules say magical healing. If not for that caveat then any form of hp healing works. Actually the wording seems to only block regen and fast healing since, well along with natural healing from resting.
Logically I would go with fast healing or regen working, but the rules say magical healing. If not for that caveat then any form of hp healing works. Actually the wording seems to only block regen and fast healing since, well along with natural healing from resting.
Anguish's quoted text above suggests otherwise however?
Logically I would go with fast healing or regen working, but the rules say magical healing. If not for that caveat then any form of hp healing works. Actually the wording seems to only block regen and fast healing since, well along with natural healing from resting.Anguish's quoted text above suggests otherwise however?
I meant to say the caveat that magical healing is the only thing that works makes it seem like a design plan to block regen and fast healing.
I know the heal check is the exception, but it is the only exception which was the point of my last post, that it pretty much blocks all nonmagical healing, otherwise they could have just pointed out hp gained by resting(assuming you could survive 8 hours of bleeding) is the only thing that does not work. Otherwise any healing except resting stops it.PS:I think there are alchemical items that work in the APG, but that would fall under the specific beats general ruling.