How to optimize for saving throws?


Advice

Silver Crusade

Supposing you were looking to get the best Fort/Ref/Will saves possible, how would you build it? The obvious answer is Paladin, but is there anything else?

Thanks


Dwarf, Monk/Paladin, Steel Soul, History of Heresy, Cloak of Resistance.

Silver Crusade

Ringtail wrote:
Dwarf, Monk/Paladin, Steel Soul, History of Heresy, Cloak of Resistance.

That was fast, thanks. Monk? Can they compete with a Paladin's Cha bonus to saves?

Liberty's Edge

If your character is of good alignment and has a decent Charisma, the Paladin spell bestow grace is your friend.

Either cast it off of a wand with UMD, or (with your GM's permission) use the magic item creation rules to make a custom item.

2 (spell level) X 4 (minimum caster level) X 2 (min/lvl duration) X 2000 gp = 32,000 gp for a Vest of Bestow Grace (constant Cha to saves). Cost to craft is 16,000 gp.

It's a sacred bonus, so it'll stack with your Cloak of Resistance.

Pricey, but if you're a Sorcerer or Oracle (for example) with a +9 or so Charisma mod? Worth every penny.


uriel222 wrote:
Ringtail wrote:
Dwarf, Monk/Paladin, Steel Soul, History of Heresy, Cloak of Resistance.
That was fast, thanks. Monk? Can they compete with a Paladin's Cha bonus to saves?

Paladin 2/ Monk X. For saving throws. Zen Archer will make good use of a Dwarf's WIS bonus as well. Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes as well, of course. Plus, what ^ that guy said.

Liberty's Edge

Also, a Paladin's bonus to saving throws is an untyped bonus. So, it'll stack with everything, including bestow grace (sacred bonus), which would by RAW give a Paladin a bonus to saves equal to 2x Charisma modifier.

I doubt that's RAI, but by RAW it works.

Dark Archive

Dwarf cleric of the Protection domain. 2 of the 3 saves are good, and you get a +1 untyped saving throw at 1st, and it goes up by 1 at 5th and every 5 levels. Clerics usually have a good Wis and Con, and a 12 Dex as well. So this cleric:

Str: 12
Int: 7
Wis: 18
Dex: 14
Con: 16
Chr: 10

Has saves at 5 with a +2 cloak of resistance and a cracked ioun stone (4K for +1) at 5th of:

Fort: 4 + 3 + 3 + 2 = 11
Ref: 1 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 9
Will: 4 + 4 + 3 + 2 = 12

And an additional +2 VS magic and poisons. Far better than most monks / Pallies, and he's a strong support caster to boot (mostly a summoner now that clerics can summon as a standard action with a feat)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

halfling beats out dwarf for a paly/monk
+1 to every save from halfling luck
+2 cha means +1 to all saves from Paladin class
+1 reflex from Dex bonus

Halfling luck balances out the WIS and CON bonuses of a dwarf
Bonus instead of penalty to CHA means +2 over Dwarf in all saves

Net result: Halfling is as good in all saves as the dwarf would be vs magic and poison. Better still on reflex saves.


Brambleman wrote:

halfling beats out dwarf for a paly/monk

+1 to every save from halfling luck
+2 cha means +1 to all saves from Paladin class
+1 reflex from Dex bonus

Halfling luck balances out the WIS and CON bonuses of a dwarf
Bonus instead of penalty to CHA means +2 over Dwarf in all saves

Net result: Halfling is as good in all saves as the dwarf would be vs magic and poison. Better still on reflex saves.

The main reason for going dwarf is to nab steel soul, changing the +2 to +4. Otherwise, I'd say half orc with sacred tattoo and pumping the bonus into CHA over halfling; its a loss of +1 Ref compared to halfling, but well worth it.


I think overall a Dwarf Monk is going to have better defenses vs. magic than a Paladin. In a low point game the advantage will probably go to the Paladin because the Monk is so M.A.D.. Assuming a 25pt buy here is my breakdown

for the Dwarf Monk take both the feat Steel Soul, and the trait Glory of Old to get the bonus vs. spells, and spell like abilities to a +5. For the second trait take Deft Dodger for a +1 Reflex save. Throw in a cloak of resistance +2 and at 6th level you will have +15 on all saves vs. spells and spell like abilities. You will also get an additional +2 vs. Enchantments. If you make your reflex save you also take no damage instead of half. Your touch AC is also much higher so you will be better against Rays and other touch attacks. Like the Paladin you are immune to disease.

The Human Paladin can achieve similar saves except for Reflex, but is spending most of his feat to do so. Take Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes for feats. Take Deft Dodger, and Indomitable Faith for traits. With the same cloak of resistance +2 at 6th level your saves will be +15 Fortitude, +11 Reflex, +14 Will. Your touch AC will be almost nothing so Rays and the like are going to be a weak spot.

The Dwarf Monk has a extra feat even after the Human racial bonus. He will also be getting more defenses as he goes up in level. Improved Evasion at 9th, Immune to poison at 11th, and spell resistance at 13th. At 20th level the Monk is considered an outsider instead of a humanoid so will gain immunity to a lot of spells, or at least require higher levels spells to affect him. Also gains DR 10/Chaotic which is pretty good since probably the Evil aligned weapons and damage are more common than chaotic.

Now the Paladin does get some extra protection when he goes up in level. At 8th level you are immune to charm, at 17th level you are immune to compulsion, and gain DR 5/Evil. At 20th level the Paladins DR increases to 10.


Something to add along item lines, if your dm allows magic item compendium items. There's the amulet of 2nd chances (might be fortune prevailing) that for 5k allows a reroll on a single save per day.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / How to optimize for saving throws? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice