First thing first, I don't know how to "make" custom magical items, and I've done fine with using the pre-made list for years. Aside when the DM/GM/me feels randy. I don't know any official rules, and reading them, they don't really answer a whole lot, or really explain certain situations.
So the group I am DMing wants to make a Portal Gun, and they want to make it as a Wondrous item, meaning its not so much a weapon, it can only for its one purpose.
"Should I let the gunslinger still apply any gun base ability to this item?"
The idea of the gun is similar to the gun from Portal 2. You can make only 2 portals on any flat surface, and anything that goes in one end goes through the other. The spell the gun would use is Dimension door.
Going from examples like Cape of the Mountebank, and Cauldron of Seeing/Crystal ball, would make the price between 10,800 gold to 42k gold. Being that this gun will probably be more the once a day. I was thinking of making it ether run on thunder stones, or it only have so many charges per day. This would effect the cost.
I remember reading somewhere, the cost could be reduce if you added restrictions or the item, such as, full-round action vs the spell that's only a standard action, both portals need to be with in range and created ect...
I had planned it, it took a move action to make one portal, so you would need two move action to create two portals. Any movement towards the portal would immediately place you on the other side as if you where there. So even a five foot step, any and all restrictions still apply once you where on the other side such as attack of opportunity.
You can never make more then two portals at once. Upon creation of another portal, you "destroy" one of the portals. You may choose which.
Any creature who has an active portal under them could make a reflex save of DC 16, if you are force through it, say, by bulrush, there is no save.
I was wondering how that might effect the cost if, instead of per move action, make a portal per attack, so if someone with a +6 base attack and rapid-shot, (AC of an empty square is 10 if i recall correctly.) and could there by shoot on portal on the ceiling, and two underneath two unwilling, "or willing I suppose" targets, having them make reflex checks, and they would immediately fall through, since falling through would technically be less then a second.
Any creature that is between portals, "say, has his arm through it, but he is still standing on the other side" would be safely shunted through the side with greater amount of its mass.
For obvious reasons, the portal can not be created on any surface that can not support it, such as water or lava, it must be solid, and anything that might change the flat surface, such as the wall moving/being destroyed/disappearing would cause that portal end to be "destroyed".
You may shoot through said portal, as if you where shooting through an open 5 foot door.
Or just scrap the whole portal thing and just say it shoots a ball like beacon that D-doors the user to where area it hits, if it can support him.
or maybe just scrape the whole portal
Ring Gates. Increase Price by 30%. Range of 60 ft, large enough to step through.
Ring Gates. Increase Price by 30%. Range of 60 ft, large enough to step through.
Well that is a very good start, thank you. What type of save would it be if someone manged to put one of these under someone, a reflex of 23?
Ring Gates. Increase Price by 30%. Range of 60 ft, large enough to step through.Well that is a very good start, thank you. What type of save would it be if someone manged to put one of these under someone, a reflex of 23?
Gate is a 9th level spell, so the base DC of the item should be 23, yes.
10 (base) + 4 (int bonus of 19, needed to cast) + 9 (spell level).
This is an item that needs some serious playtesting and design before it reasonably be introduced for real use.
There are very few methods to move an opponent involuntarily. That's deliberate. Having the ability to drop a portal beneath your foe's feet has serious tactical benefits. The DC should be rather low to make this anything but completely broken. It might prove necessary for balance to make it so voluntary action is required to pass through a portal.
You're also going to be looking at all sort of abuse from the player side. You're potentially increasing or changing movement abilities. Spring Attack coupled with a pair of portals sounds rather unpleasant.
There are tonnes of semi-non-combat uses as well. Bypassing prisons, traps, climbing... there's a tonne of utility use in such an item.
Honestly the value of a portal gun probably exceeds any reasonable amount a PC could gather.
Make each two uses (so one complete set of portals) cost a diamond worth 1,000 gp.
Or better yet, a rare item that must be in-game searched for, and is only in small quantities in any given region.
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This is an item that needs some serious playtesting and design before it reasonably be introduced for real use.
There are very few methods to move an opponent involuntarily. That's deliberate. Having the ability to drop a portal beneath your foe's feet has serious tactical benefits. The DC should be rather low to make this anything but completely broken. It might prove necessary for balance to make it so voluntary action is required to pass through a portal.
You're also going to be looking at all sort of abuse from the player side. You're potentially increasing or changing movement abilities. Spring Attack coupled with a pair of portals sounds rather unpleasant.
There are tonnes of semi-non-combat uses as well. Bypassing prisons, traps, climbing... there's a tonne of utility use in such an item.
Honestly the value of a portal gun probably exceeds any reasonable amount a PC could gather.
The save DC of 19 as suggested previously is reasonable at the level of play where this item might actually be used. The item would need to either be charge based or daily uses and would be a 9th level spell which makes the item extremely expensive to craft. I will see what I can figure up for price for crafting either a charged or daily use item which creates portals using 9th level spell.
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To model this after a Gate spell the cost would be 550,800 gold for an unlimited uses per day option.
9(spell level) * 17 (caster level) * 1800 (command word activation) * 2 (item has not slot requirement) = 550,800
You can significantly decrease cost by limiting the charges per day.
charged_version_cost = normal_cost / (number_of_charges / 5)
So, a version with one charge per day would cost 110,160 gold and the price increases by 110,160 gold per charge added.
Crafting the item would cost half and require craft wondrous item along with being able to cast Gate(which would need to be cast once per day during the crafting process). Fortunately there was no material component needed just for a portal as that would have resulted in 100*component cost. The players are looking at spending 55,080 gold in order to create this version of the item which can only be used once per day or 275,400 gold for the unlimited per day version. Also, by requiring the item to use a slot (eyes or helm imo) you can half the cost of the item. However, it is worth noting this item would allow you to create portals with only one shot which connect nearly any two points in the multi-verse ( portals can go to any plane), but only if the two points are not on the same plane. You could use two activations to create a portal to another plane and then create another portal immediately inside the portal(stepping through one portal you nearly immediately step through the next) which then dumps back to some point on the current plane.
I am going to retry the computation using Teleportation Circle which has a much lower spell level (if crafted by a summoner). Hopefully the material component cost won't ruin it.
EDIT: Terrible math and misread one of the modifiers to the price. The new price is much more reasonable(perhaps too reasonable considering the uses). However, it still requires a 17th level wizard to craft.
EDIT2: Cost, and cast time are terrible for Teleportation Circle version and it only connects points within range of Greater Teleport. Gate version is much more awesome (and for a mere 225,800 gold you could have an eyepatch of gating).
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Got so caught up in my Eye-patch of Gating I forgot to crunch the extra numbers to make this a Portal Gun instead of just a plain Wondrous Item.
To add the Gating effect to a Gun you would have to have a Gun with a +1 enhancement (2300 gold + base price of the gun) and the cost to add the effect is increased by 1.5 times since it is a secondary effect. This leaves us with the following.
2300 (masterwork and +1 enhancement) + gun_base_price + (Gate_effect_cost * 1.5 (adding a secondary effect to an item)) = 341,000 + gun_base_price
The gun also does not "fire" the portal as a ranged attack it simply casts the spell when the command word is uttered which causes the portal to appear anywhere in range (270 ft. range) and the portal lasts at most 17 rounds. I recommend the Eye Patch.
Yeah, these PCs aren't even in the double digits yet...
Any suggestions to make a far cheaper version. As in, for level 8 characters?
Its not a weapon, it is just a plain Wondrous item, that functions like a gun, although I was wondering if it was ever possible to treat the gun as a weapon for activation when using full round attacks. Probably not then.
Would say, requiring PCs to wear a "set" of items reduce the cost. Maybe its power needs to be distributed, such as taking boot, gloves, belt or some more arbitrary slots? Just to reduce the cost, since its not "one item" doing it?
Yeah, at 33,000 gp per character, this would be a very expensive, "and out right impossible item", maybe if they all pooled in... Not to mention the cost of hiring a level 17 wizard "which is possible in my campaign but I had several restrictions about that" Can you even still do that? The campaign isn't going to go anywhere near that level.
Yeah, these PCs aren't even in the double digits yet...
Any suggestions to make a far cheaper version. As in, for level 8 characters?
Its not a weapon, it is just a plain Wondrous item, that functions like a gun, although I was wondering if it was ever possible to treat the gun as a weapon for activation when using full round attacks. Probably not then.
Would say, requiring PCs to wear a "set" of items reduce the cost. Maybe its power needs to be distributed, such as taking boot, gloves, belt or some more arbitrary slots? Just to reduce the cost, since its not "one item" doing it?
Yeah, at 33,000 gp per character, this would be a very expensive, "and out right impossible item", maybe if they all pooled in... Not to mention the cost of hiring a level 17 wizard "which is possible in my campaign but I had several restrictions about that" Can you even still do that? The campaign isn't going to go anywhere near that level.
You could just give it to them, and let them have some fun with it. Balance be damned!
Also, it'd make for some interesting fights once a rival group of adventurers also get it :)
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OK, for a cheaper version we are going to need to create a spell to use as the basis for the effect. If we look at both Gate and Teleportation Circle we find that they are each more permanent portals created which mimic lower level spells. Specifically 2 spell levels lower. We will now assume this as a good balancing point.
We create a new spell called Dimensional Doorway based off the statistics for Gate, but using Dimensional Door as the base effect.
DIMENSIONAL DOORWAY
School conjuration (teleportation); Level sorcerer/wizard 6
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CASTING
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Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
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EFFECT
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Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./level)
Effect 5-ft.-radius circle that teleports those who activate it
Duration 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance no
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DESCRIPTION
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The gate itself is a circular hoop or disk from 5 to 20 feet in diameter (caster's choice) oriented in the direction you desire when it comes into existence (typically vertical and facing you). It is a two-dimensional window looking into the plane you specified when casting the spell, and anyone or anything that moves through is shunted instantly to the other side.
A gate has a front and a back. Creatures moving through the gate from the front are transported to the other plane; creatures moving through it from the back are not.
As a mode of travel, a Dimensional Doorway spell functions much like a Dismension Door spell teleporting those who step through it immediately to the other location attached to the Dimensional Doorway. Travelers may traverse back and forth through the Dimensional Doorway as easily as stepping through a mundane doorway as long as the portal lasts.
Creatures who are in the doorway when the effect is canceled must make a Reflex save equal to the spell DC or be violent shunted through one of the opening (determined randomly) and becoming dazed for 1 round. If a creature is in the space where the Dimensional Doorway manifests the creature may make a Reflex Save equal to the DC of the spell in order to avoid being immediately transported through the Dimesnional Doorway.
So, now we have a spell to base our effect on let's recalculate the cost of our item. I am intentionally ignoring non-Sorceror/Wizard casters to simplify creating the spell, but if you want to study a few examples of similar spells on other lists you could probably decide what level to put it on. I would not allow this on any spell list that does not already have Dimension Door.
6(spell level) * 11 (caster level) * 1800 (command word activation) = 118,800
Our Portal Patch now requires craft Wondrous Item and being able to cast Dimensional Doorway. The craft DC is 16(21 to complete in half time) and takes 118 (or 59 at the higher DC) days of crafting 8 hours a day to complete. The effect is now limited to short range same plane travel, but more closely mimics the portal gun we are familiar with from the game.
Your players once they reach level 11 could potentially craft the item themselves for 59,400 gold. Otherwise they will need to pay the full price to obtain this from a higher level caster.
OK, for a cheaper version we are going to need to create a spell to use as the basis for the effect. If we look at both Gate and Teleportation Circle we find that they are each more permanent portals created which mimic lower level spells. Specifically 2 spell levels lower. We will now assume this as a good balancing point.
We create a new spell called Dimensional Doorway based off the statistics for Gate, but using Dimensional Door as the base effect.
** spoiler omitted **...
Neat spell. But isn't it only one end of a "portal" type portal, which now leads to another plane?
I must point out that there is a precedent for this in 2E. It was called "Dimensional Doorway" and it was a psionicist power. I know because I rolled up a psychoportation school psionicist some 15 or so years ago and used this power to put a portal under one griffin and above another, making them crash into each instead of attacking.
A tactic I would later use against many polite killer machine gun turrets.
The main difference between a portal gun and the psionicist power is that the psi power made a person disoriented, and apparently poking your head through it meant a system shock roll, and you lost half your hit points if you failed.