My question is that: if someone hit me and i use flesh wound (rage power), i should save vs original damage before reduction or I should apply the damage reduction and then save?
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My question is that: if someone hit me and i use flesh wound (rage power), i should save vs original damage before reduction or I should apply the damage reduction and then save?
Since the power is a reaction to taking damage, it should only function based on damage actually taken.
More semantically, it says "damage dealt." Damage that your DR resisted was not dealt.
It states "the barbarian must make a fortitude save with a DC equal to the damage that would be dealt by the attack."
It also says before the damage is rolled, but i think this is a big error :)
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You must choose WHETHER to use it before the damage is rolled, but its usage coincides with the damage being taken.
"Damage dealt" == "damage you actually take". This is true in a lot of places. If a caster with DR 10 gets hit by an attacker that rolls a 7 on their damage roll, they do not make a concentration check because the "damage dealt" was 0.
"The weak enemy rolls... they hit you with a 21. Do you activate flesh wound."
"Against that guy? Naw."
"They max their damage for 12."
"Ouch."
"The big scary enemy rolls... they hit you with a 19."
"I activate flesh wound."
"Okay. They min and deal 5 damage, 4 after your DR. That makes the DC 4."
":("
It states "the barbarian must make a fortitude save with a DC equal to the damage that would be dealt by the attack."
It also says before the damage is rolled, but i think this is a big error :)
It means you have to decide to use the ability before damage is rolled. Damage is then rolled, and then you make your saving throw.
DR is applied before you make the save, because you make the save at the amount of damage that you would have been dealt, which factors in DR.
Oh, ok, i didn't read well. About the DC, the power don't says damage dealt, but the damage that would be dealt. This is not clear to me.
This would be not a big problem, but a player is a invulnerable rager, and his dmg reduction doubles against non lethal dmg. So, if he apply first, he absorb less damage but the saving throw is easyer, if he apply later the DC is higher but takes less dmg.
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Oh, ok, i didn't read well. About the DC, the power don't says damage dealt, but the damage that would be dealt. This is not clear to me.
This would be not a big problem, but a player is a invulnerable rager, and his dmg reduction doubles against non lethal dmg. So, if he apply first, he absorb less damage but the saving throw is easyer, if he apply later the DC is higher but takes less dmg.
I'd say that their invulnerable rager thing doesn't work here, since the damage really was lethal, he's just turning into non-lethal after the fact. You could try doing some complex steps to do otherwise, but that might be a bit much. The power already halves damage anyway.
Oh, ok, i didn't read well. About the DC, the power don't says damage dealt, but the damage that would be dealt. This is not clear to me.
This would be not a big problem, but a player is a invulnerable rager, and his dmg reduction doubles against non lethal dmg. So, if he apply first, he absorb less damage but the saving throw is easyer, if he apply later the DC is higher but takes less dmg.
But "the damage that would be dealt" is damage dice + bonuses (str, etc.) - penalties (DR, etc.). So the DC takes the DR into effect. I'm with Stabitty that the invulnerable rager power would not apply here.
It's similar, I think, to the rogue talent which lets you save for half damage against an attack once per day, but against which evasion doesn't apply, because you normally couldn't make the save. It normally wouldn't be nonlethal, so the ability doesn't work.
Ok, this is clear. Tnks guys.