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Is anyone actually working on this thing, or has it been left to rot on the vine?
Better yet, is there a (free) character generator for Pathfinder that isn't java (a language I have nothing good to say about) based?
Failing either, is anyone else trying to write LST files for PCGen? I'm considering it as more products come out, but would be happy if some others joined in with me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but we had the good fortune of having a fan create PCGen files for Psionics Unleashed. You can download them here
It's not something we actively work on - although I'm a software developer by day, I like to work on creating the material, rather than converting it into different file formats, in my spare time. :)
Is anyone actually working on this thing, or has it been left to rot on the vine?
Better yet, is there a (free) character generator for Pathfinder that isn't java (a language I have nothing good to say about) based?
I was going to, but I never got around to finishing the XSD schema defining the game rules structure I wanted. A .Net program to process classes written to meet the schema isn't too difficult comparably and I have some of it done too. Of course, it will be limited to Windows computers.
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Oh no! Limited to windows? It's almost like I couldn't give a rip about all those people on Jobs' pole.
Well, I do actually enjoy Linux, but all this cross platform nonsense means the programs suck more for everyone (exceptionally true for Java programs), instead of working well for the systems they're designed for.
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That PCGen isn't inherently windows is my complaint. Java's a mess of a language which I would have stripped from anything I ran as soon as possible. Were I a coder I'd write in a language that didn't suck donkey dong. Were I truly hardcore insane I'd program in assembly as Steve Gibson does.
I'm glad you believe to know what I don't, but I'd have to disagree since I've been on open source projects before (admin side, not coding). As for making money off PCGen, well the group that split off into codemonkey products had the delusions that they were good enough to make a living off other people's work. Then 4e happened and when they had to do some things without help from the community that carried them that long it pretty much went to pot.
But no, please, tell me more about how I know nothing of the situation. I'm intrigued to hear how I just 'don't get' some random buzzword, or that fixes only occur when brought up. I wouldn't want anyone to think that wand weights just calculate themselves (or let anyone know that they're currently wrong).
What you don't understand is that no one is making a living or getting paid anything to do PCGen... so the work that's done on it, is done when the coders feel like it. And they've had to adapt to things that were never done on D20, such as archetypes, alternate racial traits, and the lot. It takes a lot of recoding to accomodate that.
That really depends how you coded it in the first place. If it was never modular, yeah that will take more recoding to make it so. Archetypes/alt racial traits/etc are not overall technically much different than the "choose your own option" provided to Rangers or Humans or anything.
Seriously, if anyone wants to write XSD schema for me, or work with what I have, that would be great.
Is anyone actually working on this thing, or has it been left to rot on the vine?
There are many people working on PCGen. I happen to be one of them (on the data side).
It does seem to be true that most of the people working on PCGen aren't Pathfinder players, or prefer the coding side, or are busy with the coding side with all the changes coming for version 6.0, or are busy with real life so can't do much data entry. But there are people working on it.
Most of Bestiary 2 is preliminarily coded, for instance, but not in any official release, because it hasn't been completely coded, and hasn't undergone the review process.
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All I can say, it is free, People don't get paid for it.
You are doing some hardcore complaining about something that does not cost you a dime and people volunteer there free time to add to.
If you want something with Data sets that come out faster go with HeroLabs, that is not free, but that is the price on getting this kind of stuff done in a timely way.
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There are many people working on PCGen. I happen to be one of them (on the data side).
Please email me off the MB, I'm at gmail. I'd be happy to help you out.
Kinda, surprised that Bestiaries are getting coded at all considering most of that info can be ran from the books without tweaking for the most part.
In any case at least something's being done. Considering the shifting focus on more revisions from major portions of the software community seeing a project at a standstill for nearly a year had me questioning the wisdom of downloading the program in the first place.
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All I can say, it is free, People don't get paid for it.
Given PCGen's associations with Codemonkey, and WotC, I have very little patience for them. As I'd pointed out, a group of people decided they were going to make a living off PCGen (and WotC), and more or less created half baked product that was buggy, resource hogging, and more expensive (as though it were government funded) as time went on.
You are doing some hardcore complaining about something that does not cost you a dime and people volunteer there free time to add to.
Headaches cost more than dimes. Much more when you think you're set and find out you've been doing it wrong because the program missed something (accusations of cheating are never fun).
If you want something with Data sets that come out faster go with HeroLabs, that is not free, but that is the price on getting this kind of stuff done in a timely way.
I've tried it, and honestly unless PCGen comes out with this update soon I'm going there (and buying excel), but I wanted to see if someone knew if there was something coming before laying out that kind of cash.
There are many people working on PCGen. I happen to be one of them (on the data side).Kinda, surprised that Bestiaries are getting coded at all considering most of that info can be ran from the books without tweaking for the most part.
It's a volunteer project, so people work on what they want to work on. In my case, I haven't fully grasped - or even fully read - either Ultimate Magic or Ultimate Combat, so I didn't feel comfortable working on those. And, I was interested in monsters.
All I can say, it is free, People don't get paid for it.Given PCGen's associations with Codemonkey, and WotC, I have very little patience for them. As I'd pointed out, a group of people decided they were going to make a living off PCGen (and WotC), and more or less created half baked product that was buggy, resource hogging, and more expensive (as though it were government funded) as time went on.
Your characterization of the association is not really accurate.
A Brief History of PCGen:PCGen began existence as a VB program, and migrated to Java (around '97-'98) to provide multi-platform support.
Around version 2.x, when the project was trying to get certified for D20 System compatibility, WotC informed the project that they were in violation of copyright by including all the content from books that were not under the OGL license. At that point, the project dumped all the files containing non-OGL WotC copyrighted material, and implemented a very cautious data source vetting process, gaining explicit permission from any publisher before including data sets in the distribution. At the same time, some of the data set developers split from the core PCGen project to form the company CodeMonkey Publishing, which obtained a license from WotC for creating PCGen data sets of all the D&D books, re-implemented all the WotC book sets from scratch, and began selling these data sets. There were many cases of CodeMonkey Publishing developers submitting code to the open source PCGen project in order to support features needed in their commercial data-sets, but there was no other interaction, due to legal reasons surrounding the licensing agreement between CMP and WotC. Around '05, WotC revoked its license from CodeMonkey Publishing, eventually leading to the demise of the company a couple years later, as their primary revenue stream was cut off. The open source project PCGen has continued on, in a purely volunteer manner, as the core of the project has always been.
The latest Alpha came out in August. Along with a new APG dataset.
For a free project done by volunteers on their free time, a little less than two months isn't bad (and based on the many years of the program's history, about par for the course).
If you read around the project Wiki, you'll see also that they're working on some major changes during their development cycle to update the GUI and other functions--which takes time. Again, for a free project.
OP, if you're serious about writing datasets for PC Gen, I would strongly suggest you read through the site Wiki to familiarize yourself with what's actually going on there, join their discussion group, and give them a hand.
Disclaimer: does not work on PC Gen in anyway. Is just a happy user of a free product. Could it be better? Yeah. Did I get what I paid for? Absolutely and then some.
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Your characterization of the association is not really accurate.
We obviously see things differently, but I'm happy to see CMP run out of business. I would hope they've been run out of the PCGen project as well, but I highly doubt it. At the height of CMP's life the entire PCGen admin was employed by CMP. At the time their datasets were still inferior to the PCGen 2.x efforts. CMP's WotC alliance was both bad for WotC, and ultimately bad for PCGen.
Also, it was less of PCGen trying to get d20 certed than trying not to get sued out of existence by WotC. CMP's interaction with the project was more one of master servant than mutual friends due to the directors of the project being CMP employed.
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OP, if you're serious about writing datasets for PC Gen, I would strongly suggest you read through the site Wiki to familiarize yourself with what's actually going on there, join their discussion group, and give them a hand.
I've no interest in the project. They've lost my faith long ago. I was hoping to hear more about another chargen program, or find a group that did LST files on their own and help with that.
OP, if you're serious about writing datasets for PC Gen, I would strongly suggest you read through the site Wiki to familiarize yourself with what's actually going on there, join their discussion group, and give them a hand.I've no interest in the project. They've lost my faith long ago. I was hoping to hear more about another chargen program, or find a group that did LST files on their own and help with that.
I am honestly confused about what made you "lose their faith" but do what pleases you, of course.
I don't know of any such groups, because as PC Gen is actively being worked on, anyone I know who writes datasets for PC Gen submits them to the volunteer developers. This is just from my personal experience.
I hope you find what you are looking for.
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OP, if you're serious about writing datasets for PC Gen, I would strongly suggest you read through the site Wiki to familiarize yourself with what's actually going on there, join their discussion group, and give them a hand.I've no interest in the project. They've lost my faith long ago. I was hoping to hear more about another chargen program, or find a group that did LST files on their own and help with that.
The thread title and the first sentence are explicit interest, contrary to what you say above. I keep tabs on the PCGen project group and see activity almost every day working out bugs and discussing upcoming features. You seem to have focused on that monkey issue and seemingly can't see past it. They actually have got a lot done, but most of the effort is on the major version upgrade, improving the interface and backbone
As to other generating programs, there are two total. HeroLabs and PCGen. That's it. There are also several automated spreadsheets (Ogre's Sheet, Pathfinder Excelerator, sCoreGen, TheOneSheet)
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The thread title and the first sentence are explicit interest, contrary to what you say above.
Since you seem to want to be pedantic, and failed to read the post I was replying to (not you), I'll rephrase. I've no interest in (joining) the project.
I keep tabs on the PCGen project group...
Good for you, best of luck with that.
There are also several automated spreadsheets (Ogre's Sheet, Pathfinder Excelerator, sCoreGen, TheOneSheet)
I'll start looking there.
Dotting!
There are also several automated spreadsheets (Ogre's Sheet, Pathfinder Excelerator, sCoreGen, TheOneSheet)I'll start looking there.
By "spreadsheets," he means "Excel sheets that would be better off being stand-alone programs." You'd be better off purchasing HeroLab unless you already have the newest versions of Excel.
No one wants to write/clean-up XSD schema? You all suck.
I don't even know what an XSD schema is.
I don't even know what an XSD schema is.
It's a repetitive word phrase. Technically, it would be XML schema.
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I think we'll see more progress in the PCGen world if/when they get their data changes settled. It would be hard to get excited about volunteering time towards something so much in flux.
I've been a fan a long time, though, so a few more months aren't going to change that much. Have you guys ever seen that '1990census' name generator in there? I wrote that! Or adapted it from the data, anyway. Not that it makes for much to brag about or anything, but I did that back in 96-97, I think. It was current back then...
I'm willing to get by until they finish their new format.
PCGen's data format isn't changing. What will be changing is the GUI, and also a lot of what's going on under the hood. We are working on more and more Pathfinder data sources, but as all of our members have day jobs, families and social lives, and we are in fact not that many people working on the data files, progress is slow. I'm currently working - slowly - on data sets for Ultimate Magic and Combat, for example, but those will take some time. New character option concepts like archetypes or alternate classes also make it necessary to make changes to our core data rule set, and you can be assured, that work is progressing. For anyone who is interested in the project (i.e. using PCGen, not working on it), I can recommend joining our mailing as pcgen@yahoogroups.com.
To address the animosity in this thread:
The OP left the PCGen project in early 2005 following a disagreement and several public arguments.
I believe it would be best to leave such ill will in the past.
NotMousse,
Best of luck in seeking alternative character building systems. I've heard good things about TheOneSheet, but I had some difficulty with it. (Shouldn't affect everyone: It doesn't seem to work at all in OpenOffice, and my only copy of Excell is a corporate copy on my work laptop that has locked out all macros, basically leaving me unable to use the spreadsheet as intended.)
NotMousse,
Best of luck in seeking alternative character building systems. I've heard good things about TheOneSheet, but I had some difficulty with it. (Shouldn't affect everyone: It doesn't seem to work at all in OpenOffice, and my only copy of Excell is a corporate copy on my work laptop that has locked out all macros, basically leaving me unable to use the spreadsheet as intended.)
Which is why I look down on character generator spreadsheets. If you are going to do that much programming, MAKE A PROGRAM.
Which is why I look down on character generator spreadsheets. If you are going to do that much programming, MAKE A PROGRAM.
To me, the biggest disadvantage of character spreadsheets is that you have to enter everything again when you update to a new version of the sheet.
I find that I do just as much work with a spreadsheet as I do a character sheet.