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Since the release of the Pathfinder Society Field Guide (which is excellent IMHO) Cheliax faction members can purchase ranks in the Hellknights with their PP. The Hellknight Prestige class seems to imply that Hellknight Armor can't be purchased until 2nd level in that prestige class. In the Faction Guide there is provision for someone with the rank Hellknight to buy Hellknight Armor. Is it reasonable to assume that if you achieve Hellknight Rank in the Cheliax faction Fame awards then you can purchase it even if you have no levels in the prestige class?
I'm not sure if this has been discussed elsewhere, but is there a rule for Pathfinder Society with regard to rank in the Hellknights and being able to buy and wear Hellknight armor (at least legally within Cheliax law)?
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There is no restriction from buying the Hellknight armor even by a non-Hellknight. It is an always available item and essentially just Masterwork Full Plate armor, albeit with a distinctive appearance. Although, the Hellknight order might be a bit peeved if they catch a non-knight running around wearing "their" armor.
The special benefits from wearing the armor are a function of taking levels in the PrC, so if you become a Hellknight by spending the PP from the Faction Guide, you will not gain any of the benefits related to the PrC.
It is reasonable to think that a GM might give you a circumstantial bonus or penalty, in social situations when you are wearing the armor, to reflect its impact on Diplomacy/Intimidate/Disguise/etc but that is outside of the scope of the RAW and left to the GM to adjudicate.
Mechanically you should not gain any benefits other than the qualities equivalent to a suit of MW Full Plate.
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Thanks for replying Bob.
I am just interested in what people feel is reasonable for a Hellknight-aimed character given that it seems that the title Hellknight can be held by someone with no levels in the Prestige Class.
From a role-playing point of view, I don't want my character to wear Hellknight armor if it is not appropriate for him. Like anyone considering joining the Hellknights, he is a stickler for the rules. I don't know if he will ever takes levels in Hellknight prestige class, but he is Cheliax faction and he will use PP to buy into the Hellknights when he gets to 40 Fame. I would like him to wear Hellknight armor regardless of the fact that it is mechanically the same as full plate. It's flavor - Golarion flavor.
From a game mechanics point of view, I want to buy a suit of armor for the character and start to add enhancements to it. I would like this to be Hellknight armor. It will be frustrating to buy a different suit of armor, pay for enhancements and then sell that when I have 2 levels of Hellknight just to buy Hellknight armor and enhance it up the same way. At the moment he is an Armiger in the Hellknights (from spending PP). Do Hellknight Armigers wear Hellknight armor? Are they permitted by the Hellknight code?
Who wrote Hellknights into Golarion? Perhaps he could help me. Who wrote the Prestige Class? I guess my question is only in-character flavor, but if Hellknights are available in PFS then we should play by the same rules (very important for Lawful Hellknights).
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@Deluge, you get to wear the HKArmor by virtue of the PrC. Having the title (through PP) is irrelevant.
The armiger, IMO is not a full hellknight so a purist would say "no". But there is nothing in the campaign that restricts you from it. Come up with a cool story or RP reason you have it and have fun.
As Bob said, you can wear the armor whenever you want, but I as a GM would likely impose circumstance modifiers based on what you are trying to do or where you are. Choices you made...
That said, I do wear Mwk Parade Armor that looks like HKArmor, at least when I meet the VCs...
JP
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JP Thanks for replying.
You say that having the title is irrelevant (to having Hellknight armor), but in the Faction Guide there was a way to have Hellknight armor without levels in Hellknight PrC. The armor seems definitive for Hellknights and would be nice for characterisation.
You are right, I can just come up with a RP reason why I have the armor, but then at some tables the GM will be ok and at others the GM will be unhappy with it. My character is very lawful and would never wear Hellknight armor without a legal, lawful reason. He would rather have other armor. Your parade armor sounds a nice idea.
Things like Hellknight armor are just great Golarion flavor to me. Having a restriction on its use or availability adds to the mystique which is great. But if the restriction is so strict then the flavor is lost. I think it sounds fair that if you have the Hellknight title that you should be permitted to wear Hellknight armor, but that is just my opinion. I'm interested in the opinions of other potential Hellknights.
Without clarification, I think I will just go in a different direction regarding armor with this character.
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JP Thanks for replying.
You say that having the title is irrelevant (to having Hellknight armor), but in the Faction Guide there was a way to have Hellknight armor without levels in Hellknight PrC. The armor seems definitive for Hellknights and would be nice for characterisation.
You are right, I can just come up with a RP reason why I have the armor, but then at some tables the GM will be ok and at others the GM will be unhappy with it. My character is very lawful and would never wear Hellknight armor without a legal, lawful reason. He would rather have other armor. Your parade armor sounds a nice idea.
Things like Hellknight armor are just great Golarion flavor to me. Having a restriction on its use or availability adds to the mystique which is great. But if the restriction is so strict then the flavor is lost. I think it sounds fair that if you have the Hellknight title that you should be permitted to wear Hellknight armor, but that is just my opinion.I'm interested in the opinions of other potential Hellknights.
Without clarification, I think I will just go in a different direction regarding armor with this character.
Hey deluge, we cross paths again (you ran a few tables i was at at PaizoConOz 2010), I am currently running a fighter with the intent of her going Hellknight PrC at level 6, personally i think that it makes sense from a character/RP standpoint that you build a relationship with the order you will be joining at Level 3 within the PrC prior to it, so i fully intend to buy HellKnight plate at the soonest opportunity she is a Hellknight in training it makes sense she would be wearing the armor, she doesn't get the special training for it to work as effectively as when she hits the appropriate levelm of the PrC but it works for me, since she is an uncouth man trapped in a womans body it makes sense to me.
Sitting here typing that i hope it makes sense by sleep starved brain is trying to tell me something so i am off to sleep
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Good day, my friend "deluge". As we are all colleagues here and wait for no formality, I offer you my hand and introduce myself as Gennadiy, warrior of Torag, Hellknight aspirant.
Do you remember that incident last year, over in the High District, where a couple of jovial fighter types had some spiked plate armor made, and tried to pass themselves off as hellknights, so that they might borrow the reputation of the Order for their own ends? If I recall correctly, the Order of the Pyre not only took them to task, but also made sure to teach the armorsmith a costly lesson. I am given to understand that there are no such costumes available this year.
It is true that agents of Cheliax operating abroad may receive a Hellknight courtesy title, as a measure of their favor in House Thrune. Although such a gentle is indeed allowed to style himself or herself a Hellknight, he or she would be mistaken to imagine that the officers of the Orders would think much of anyone bandying that rank about as if he or she had, well, earned it.
I would say, though, that a Pathfinder such as yourself, intending to petition the Hellknights for membership, might well seek to have a genuine suit of hellknight plate made, in anticipation of accepting service in the Orders. I would advise against buying any with any markings or styling which would give others the false impression that you were already acting in the name of the hellknights, but those are simple enough to add afterwards.
In joy and service to you, my friend. May your duties in the lodge be pleasant, and may your excursions always lead you safely back to them.
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If you are planning on becoming a hellknight, it is not so bad. With a little understanding, you could always "buy" hellknight armor, characterize it as Masterwork Full-Plate for RP purposes until you take your first level of Hellknight, and then describe it as a "new" suit commissioned for you upon your acceptance to the order.
On the other hand, if I were GMing and a player arrived with hellknight armor, they'd receive a large bonus on disguise checks to masquerade as a Hellknight. Possibly even Intimidate and Diplomacy, provided their bluff isn't called.
With regard to how Hellknights might react ...
*dons his helmet*
This armor is a heavy burden. The Measure describes impersonation as a crime, and impersonation of a Hellknight a more severe crime. Mercenary pretenders have called themselves Hellknights before, but you will notice they did not survive the war.
The armor does not make a Hellknight. But it is our symbol. Symbols must be honored to have power.
Consider your next actions very carefully.
*removes his helmet*