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I start directly with the questions:
1.) Feat Arcane Strike - Does that work with unarmed fighting (ie monk)?
2.) Feat Hammer the Gap - Is it as good as it appears to be? Which means that if I hit a monster with my first strike (full round) and then continue to fire off my attacks on him then I do equally much extra damage as as my previous strike ie I hit a mob for 6 damage on my first strike and then my next strike hits for 7 damage and then I get an added 6 extra due to Hammer the gap (since my first hit was 6). Have I understood it correctly? If so then it pretty damn amazing!
3.) Unarmed - If I don't have access to flurry of blows as a monk due to archetype taking them away then I assume I can get some extra attacks through TWF feat lines as usual?
4.) Vital Strike - If I do a full round attack can I then choose one of those attacks to become a Vital Strike? If so can I then choose whichever attack I want of them to be the Vital Strike? Ie the last attack of my attack chain?
5.) Monstrous Physique - I assume I can wield my weapons in that form (in my case unarmed fighting) If I assume correctly what about the other forms like Beastly, Dragon and elemental form? Not really sure how that is supposed to work. I can of course see what abilities I can gain but it says nothing about how the fighting will work. Please enlighten me :)
6.) Monastic Legacy - If I have an uneven amount of non monk lvls shall I round upwards or downwards?
7.) Sohei Monk Archetype - Due to the archtype giving alot of weapons access to flurry of blows. For example it gives crossbows access to flurry of blows. Now I wonder how can you keep up with reloading a crossbow that fast? :p Since they normally take quite a bit to reload :)
8.) Monk Archetype Master of Many Styles - If I have two stances that affect the same thing I assume that both will take affect then (since it's basically what the archetype do). For example if one stance does some extra damage on the first strike and then another stance also adds damage to the first strike.
That's the questions I have for this evening ;)
Thanks in advance!
/Thrilled
I start directly with the questions:
2.) Feat Hammer the Gap - Is it as good as it appears to be? Which means that if I hit a monster with my first strike (full round) and then continue to fire off my attacks on him then I do equally much extra damage as as my previous strike ie I hit a mob for 6 damage on my first strike and then my next strike hits for 7 damage and then I get an added 6 extra due to Hammer the gap (since my first hit was 6). Have I understood it correctly? If so then it pretty damn amazing!
hammer the gap
hammer the gap
You repeatedly strike the same location, causing increasing
amounts of damage.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you take a full-attack action, each
consecutive hit against the same opponent deals extra
damage equal to the number of previous consecutive
hits you have made against that opponent this turn. This
damage is multiplied on a critical hit.
I read this as, if your first attack hits, and then your second attack hits, you get 1 extra damage, because you only had 1 previous hit. If you hit with a third attack, you only get 2 extra damage.
4.) Vital Strike - If I do a full round attack can I then choose one of those attacks to become a Vital Strike? If so can I then choose whichever attack I want of them to be the Vital Strike? Ie the last attack of my attack chain?
Because vital strike is a standard action, I am inclined to say you cannot use it with a full attack/full round action.
The other questions I am not quite certain of.
I start directly with the questions:
1.) Feat Arcane Strike - Does that work with unarmed fighting (ie monk)?
As long as you still have access to arcane spells some how yes it does.
2.) Feat Hammer the Gap - Is it as good as it appears to be? Which means that if I hit a monster with my first strike (full round) and then continue to fire off my attacks on him then I do equally much extra damage as as my previous strike ie I hit a mob for 6 damage on my first strike and then my next strike hits for 7 damage and then I get an added 6 extra due to Hammer the gap (since my first hit was 6). Have I understood it correctly? If so then it pretty damn amazing!
No, you dont get extra damage equal to the damage dealt by the previous hit but the number of hits. So if i have 4 attacks for 1d8+4 damage, first one hits 1d8+4, second one hits 1d8+5, third one hits 1d8+6, fourth one hits 1d8+7. Its still good if you are two weapon fighting or using flurry of blows, but it isn't as good as you think.
3.) Unarmed - If I don't have access to flurry of blows as a monk due to archetype taking them away then I assume I can get some extra attacks through TWF feat lines as usual?
No, normally you cannot make unarmed attacks alone as two weapon fighting, the monk is the exception to this. You could however use a weapon in one hand and unarmed attacks in the other though.
4.) Vital Strike - If I do a full round attack can I then choose one of those attacks to become a Vital Strike? If so can I then choose whichever attack I want of them to be the Vital Strike? Ie the last attack of my attack chain?
No, vital strike is a standard action to do, you cant full attack with this.
5.) Monstrous Physique - I assume I can wield my weapons in that form (in my case unarmed fighting) If I assume correctly what about the other forms like Beastly, Dragon and elemental form? Not really sure how that is supposed to work. I can of course see what abilities I can gain but it says nothing about how the fighting will work. Please enlighten me :)
I am not certain where this one is coming from, is this a feat? If so from what sourcebook.
6.) Monastic Legacy - If I have an uneven amount of non monk lvls shall I round upwards or downwards?
Unless it says otherwise always round down.
7.) Sohei Monk Archetype - Due to the archtype giving alot of weapons access to flurry of blows. For example it gives crossbows access to flurry of blows. Now I wonder how can you keep up with reloading a crossbow that fast? :p Since they normally take quite a bit to reload :)
The sohei monk gives profficiancy in many weapons beyond what a monk normally gets but it doesnt to my knowledge let you flurry with anything new. A weapon must be a monk weapon in order to flurry with it. Crossbows are not. That said, if you take rapid reload(core) and crossbow mastery(apg) feats you can fire a crossbow as fast as you have attacks for it.
8.) Monk Archetype Master of Many Styles - If I have two stances that affect the same thing I assume that both will take affect then (since it's basically what the archetype do). For example if one stance does some extra damage on the first strike and then another stance also adds damage to the first strike.
This follows the normal stacking rules. If the damage bonuses are untyped or of a different type they stack, if not then they dont.
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normally you cannot make unarmed attacks alone as two weapon fighting, the monk is the exception to this.
Why not? Why does an improved unarmed strike count as a second weapon, but not the first one? Unarmed and TWF are mentioned many times in the rules:
Unarmed Strike Damage: "Unarmed strikes count as light weapons (for purposes of two-weapon attack penalties and so on)."
Natural Attacks: "all of your attacks made with melee weapons and unarmed strikes are made as if you were two-weapon fighting"
Two-Weapon Fighting: "An unarmed strike is always considered light."
Remember, Flurry of Blows is not the same as TWF. A monk can TWF just like anyone else.
5.) Monstrous Physique - I assume I can wield my weapons in that form (in my case unarmed fighting) If I assume correctly what about the other forms like Beastly, Dragon and elemental form? Not really sure how that is supposed to work. I can of course see what abilities I can gain but it says nothing about how the fighting will work.
Monstrous Physique is a Polymorph spell. As such, it has all sorts of special rules.
If you do not change into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, then your gear does not meld with your body.
While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form, as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form.
Ask your DM, but this might mean you can no longer use your monk unarmed strike abilities. (Depending on if this is "adding features")
1) Yes, unarmed is equivalent to a light melee weapon unless otherwise noted.
2) No. An example of how this would work:
round 1 - You take a full-attack action that allows you to attack three times in one round. You hit with the first and deal damage as normal (as according to your weapon, strength, build, etc.). You hit with the second and deal normal damage +1. You hit with the third and deal normal damage +2.
round2 – You take another full-attack action. You hit with the first and deal normal damage. You miss with the second and deal no damage. You hit with the third and deal normal damage +1.
round3 - You take another full-attack action. You miss with the first and deal no damage. You miss with the second and deal no damage. You hit with the third and deal normal damage.
3) Yes. ( Kolokotroni, please explain why, “normally you cannot make unarmed attacks alone as two weapon fighting”. I do not see why you say only monks can do this.)
4) No. Vital strike allows you to make one attack as a standard action and double the weapon’s damage die.
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As far as i am aware two weapon fighting only counts as a single weapon, different hands, head and feet are not distinguished as separate weapons. If you could then flurry of blows wouldnt have to be worded 'as if using the two weapon fighting feat', it would just say, 'gains two weapon fighting as a bonus feat'. The exception wouldn't be there if the normal rule was sufficient. At least that has always been my interpretation and that of my group since we starting using 3.x and d20.
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As far as i am aware two weapon fighting only counts as a single weapon, different hands, head and feet are not distinguished as separate weapons. If you could then flurry of blows wouldnt have to be worded 'as if using the two weapon fighting feat',
So your argument for believing that flurry doesn't funtion like TWF is the fact that it says it does?
5) Yes, all monstrous humanoids can wield weapons just like ‘normal’ humanoids can and they (along with all your other gear) resizes to match your new size. For more info follow Grick’s ‘Polymorph’ link.
6) Always round down unless otherwise noted.
7) The Rapid Reload feat. Note you must use a light or hand crossbow.
8) It depends. For the damage example you gave, I’d say yes unless they are, like Kolokotroni said, of the same ‘type’. For other bonuses I’m not sure. It would depend on what they both do. A quick browsing makes me think you won’t need to worry about the effects not stacking. Specific examples would be helpful.
My answers in bold text :)
Thanks alot for the replies makes things alot more clear now...
Still not completely convinced regarding the unarmed + twf. Why I feel like this is the following line when I read about the TWF:
"Normal: If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a –6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a –10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light, the penalties are reduced by 2 each. An unarmed strike is always considered light." Why should they mention that unarmed is considered a light weapon otherwise?
Also what shall a MONK do it he can't use flurry of blows? What should the unarmed fighter do to get more attacks? The difference is 4 blows which makes it kind of pointless to play a monk if he has an archetype that takes away 4 attacks. I already though 2 attacks difference was rough (with the twf included (3 base + 2 extra offhands) compared to 7 with flurry of blow. I tend to agree with the others on this one ;)
*********************
Regarding the Sohei quest (pasting it in below since the quote didnt catch it:)
7.) Sohei Monk Archetype - Due to the archtype giving alot of weapons access to flurry of blows. For example it gives crossbows access to flurry of blows. Now I wonder how can you keep up with reloading a crossbow that fast? :p Since they normally take quite a bit to reload :)
Your answer: The sohei monk gives profficiancy in many weapons beyond what a monk normally gets but it doesnt to my knowledge let you flurry with anything new. A weapon must be a monk weapon in order to flurry with it. Crossbows are not. That said, if you take rapid reload(core) and crossbow mastery(apg) feats you can fire a crossbow as fast as you have attacks for it.
I think I have to disagree on this one too... I will past in the description from the Sohei:
Weapon Training (Ex)
At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training.
This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of the sun and moon.
***************************************
So if I read that description it basically says that a Sohei monk can take weapon training in a crossbow or a twohanded polearm and then shoot of 7 attacks with flurry of blows :) Seems pretty cruel :p
GoldenOpal - The weird thing is that it doesn't say by any means that you need to have rapid reload to use the flurry with crossbows (even if it might be logical). Especially since crossbows weapon category also includes heavy crossbows which even with rapid reload feat should require a move action (whereas the light ones can be reloaded with a free action)
So glad that this is an active messageboard with your helpful people out there to guide me.
/Thrilled
6) Always round down unless otherwise noted.
7) The Rapid Reload feat. Note you must use a light or hand crossbow.
8) It depends. For the damage example you gave, I’d say yes unless they are, like Kolokotroni said, of the same ‘type’. For other bonuses I’m not sure. It would depend on what they both do. A quick browsing makes me think you won’t need to worry about the effects not stacking. Specific examples would be helpful.
Well a quick example... the first Dragon Style feat gives 1/2 your str modifier as an extra damage on your first attack.
So if you have that feat and then take the first Boar Style feat that adds 2d6 bleed damaage on your first strike. So they have different damage types and quite different mechanic although they both do damage on the first strike
/Thrilled
As far as i am aware two weapon fighting only counts as a single weapon, different hands, head and feet are not distinguished as separate weapons. If you could then flurry of blows wouldnt have to be worded 'as if using the two weapon fighting feat', it would just say, 'gains two weapon fighting as a bonus feat'.
Flurry of Blows lists unarmed strikes in the text not because it is adding unarmed strike as an option to TWF with, but because it allows you to act as if you have the TWF feat when and only when utilizing the weapons listed (including unarmed strike).
the first Dragon Style feat gives 1/2 your str modifier as an extra damage on your first attack. So if you have that feat and then take the first Boar Style feat that adds 2d6 bleed damaage on your first strike.
So they have different damage types and quite different mechanic although they both do damage on the first strike.
Yes. However there may be some feats that would not stack with each other. You will need to determine it case by case.
As far as i am aware two weapon fighting only counts as a single weapon, different hands, head and feet are not distinguished as separate weapons. If you could then flurry of blows wouldnt have to be worded 'as if using the two weapon fighting feat', it would just say, 'gains two weapon fighting as a bonus feat'.Flurry of Blows lists unarmed strikes in the text not because it is adding unarmed strike as an option to TWF with, but because it allows you to act as if you have the TWF feat when and only when utilizing the weapons listed (including unarmed strike).
Agree, and also I personally read the description for Flurry of Blow as they were explaining the reasoning why Flurry of Blow got that many attacks. Flurry of Blows is a build in feature that you can't "buy". The only way to get nearby if you are not eligable for Flurry would in my reasoning be to have unarmed strikes and then add the two weapon fighting feats. Still you would loose out 2 attacks since flurry is more superior. Also the example I said about the unarmed fighter supports this too. Why should he otherwise ever choose unarmed strike if he could never get the twf feats (especially considering that he gets 1d3 damage unless he are monk or having Monestary Legacy feat).
To make things a bit more interesting with the Sohei Archetype for monks:
Let's continue the crossbow path....
What would happen if the monk then uses flurry of blow and then also have the rapid shot feat which should normally give you one extra attack? :p
1) Yes, unarmed is equivalent to a light melee weapon unless otherwise noted.
Upon second thought this statement may be misleading.
Unarmed is equivalent to a light melee weapon except as noted here. (Feats/class abilities/ect supersede these ‘normal’ rules.)
I beleive zen archer monks have been doing the rapid shot trick for a while now.
To the OP:
You are correct that the monk could flurry with the crossbow without rapid reload/crossbow mastery. However after the first shot he would just be pulling the trigger. *click* *click*. You must reload a crossbow to use it again it's unique like that. Bows do not need to be reloaded as pulling an arrow is a free action.
The weird thing is that it doesn't say by any means that you need to have rapid reload to use the flurry with crossbows (even if it might be logical). Especially since crossbows weapon category also includes heavy crossbows which even with rapid reload feat should require a move action (whereas the light ones can be reloaded with a free action)
The overarching rule for pathfinder is: Abilities only do what they explicitly say they do. [There are sometimes problems here and there, editing mistakes and weird wording and such. But if you use this rule of thumb, your interpretation will match the designers’ intention 99% of the time.]
Nowhere in the Sohei’s weapon training ability description does it change or negate the reload action of crossbows. It just makes them ‘flurriable’. Flurry of blows is still a full round action and crossbows still take an action to reload as in their descriptions. So unless you use a light or hand crossbow and have the rapid reload feat for that crossbow, you can’t flurry with it.
What would happen if the monk then uses flurry of blow and then also have the rapid shot feat which should normally give you one extra attack? :p
You would get an extra shot, but all your shots that round would be at -2.
The weird thing is that it doesn't say by any means that you need to have rapid reload to use the flurry with crossbows (even if it might be logical). Especially since crossbows weapon category also includes heavy crossbows which even with rapid reload feat should require a move action (whereas the light ones can be reloaded with a free action)The overarching rule for pathfinder is: Abilities only do what they explicitly say they do. [There are sometimes problems here and there, editing mistakes and weird wording and such. But if you use this rule of thumb, your interpretation will match the designers’ intention 99% of the time.]
Nowhere in the Sohei’s weapon training ability description does it change or negate the reload action of crossbows. It just makes them ‘flurriable’. Flurry of blows is still a full round action and crossbows still take an action to reload as in their descriptions. So unless you use a light or hand crossbow and have the rapid reload feat for that crossbow, you can’t flurry with it.
Makes sense too....
I was digging around a bit more regarding unarmed strike + twf. Here are some of the things I found:
This might be the best explaination maybe...
3) Can monks use unarmed strike as an off-hand weapon even though their class abilities say, "There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed"? (Yes. This sentence is referring to how a Monk always gets full Str bonus on unarmed strikes, as the next sentence clarifies. This means they get full Str bonus on off-hand unarmed strikes, which normally only get 1/2 Str bonus by RAW.)
This part is something I don't agree with. My justification is thus: NOBODY has an offhand attack, not until you give them one (by using the TWFing combat option). A fighter can hold a longsword in one hand and a battleaxe in the other, and as long as his BAB is high enough, he can attack with both in a round without invoking the TWFing rules (if his BAB is +6, he could attack with the longsword at +6 and the battleaxe at +1, or the battleaxe at +6 and the longsword at +1). That line of text comes right after the section about how a monk can strike with either hand, or any non-hand part of their body interchangably. Just like the fighter, the monk can strike with either of his hands, his kneeds, elbows, feet, head, or anything, and as long as he doesn't get more attacks/round than his BAB + flurry would grant, none of his attacks are offhand attack even if they are made with either hand. The text simply reminds the player that they are not invoking TWFing rules.
Now, if a monk with a +6 BAB strikes someone with his sai with Flurry of Blows, he would get 3 attack (+5/+5/+0). If he also punched them, he would be getting more attacks/round than he is normally allowed via the TWFing action. Since he's doing that, he follows the TWFing rules, makes his attacks at (+3/+3/+3/-2), with the 3rd +3 attack being considered an offhand and only gaining the benefit of 1/2 +Str bonus.
There is no such thing as a monk making offhand attacks while making his normally alotted attacks. All attacks are main hand attacks, UNTIL YOU EXPLICITLY GIVE HIM AN OFFHAND ATTACK.
Here comes pretty many posts:
two weapon fighting and unarmed strike
1 year ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 6:34AM #1
Salivan_Bridge
Posts: 46
Date Joined: 12/16/07
yo there!
does the two weapon fighting affects unarmed strikes?
1 year ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 8:42AM #2
BrogueTheRogue
Posts: 282
Date Joined: 05/11/10
Two weapon fighting has the capacity to affect unarmed strikes, should you choose to do so, yes.
You can even TWF with FOB, and Rapid Shot, and a host of other bonus attack options.
1 year ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 6:17PM #3
Slagger_the_Chuul
Posts: 3,292
Date Joined: 05/26/01
I agree.
As long as you take the appropriate penalties, you can get the benefits of two-weapon fighting (and the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, if you have it) with unarmed strikes. And, happily, unarmed strikes are a light weapon.
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1 year ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 9:08PM #4
MrCustomer
Posts: 1,149
Date Joined: 08/03/07
Really? There are penalties for attacking with 2-weapons, which the 2-Weapons feat counters. However it should be noted that those penelties don't apply to unarmed attacks. You have more then 2 weapons as well with unarmed attacks, fists, elbows, knees, headbuts, kicks all come to mind. But then I never really gave this much thought before.
1 year ago :: Jun 25, 2010 - 10:28PM #5
Slagger_the_Chuul
Posts: 3,292
Date Joined: 05/26/01
Jun 25, 2010 -- 9:08PM, MrCustomer wrote:
However it should be noted that those penelties don't apply to unarmed attacks.
Last time I checked, those penalties applied to unarmed strikes used with two weapon fighting, though not with natural weapons, which are also a kind of unarmed attack.
To me it seems more and more clear that TWF should be working with unarmed strike.
Best Regards!
/Thrilled
** Edit of less relevance but DDO game also let monks get the twf feats for more attacks :p **
Found another post on the forums of Wizards of the Coast:
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869110/monk_minmax_crea tion_guide
Inside that thread you can see this:
On TWF: According to this thread (containing confirmation from WotC's R & D department) you can take and apply the TWF chain to monks. Problem is that in v3.0 you can't, and it was never explicitly recinded, so you'll probably have to show that thread to your DM in order to convince them.
Only bad stuff is that the link doesnt work. But the concensus is still there
/Thrilled
Only bad stuff is that the link doesnt work.
Fixed: WizardsOTC Thread: Monk minmax creation guide (yours had a space in it)
Also, Thrilled, it's rather difficult to follow your posts. If you format them for the message board it would be much easier to read and respond to your points. Click the 'show' button beneath the message reply box to see formatting tips. Most importantly, enclosing things you're quoting in the "[ QUOTE ]" tags will make your responses stand out, just making them bold is hard on the eyes. You can use the Preview button to see how your post will look before you submit it.
Now, if a monk with a +6 BAB strikes someone with his sai with Flurry of Blows, he would get 3 attack (+5/+5/+0).
This is incorrect. A monk with BAB 6 is level 8, his flurry of blows will be at +6/+6/+1/+1.
If you mean a monk who has a BAB of 6 while flurrying (IE: Level 6 monk) then his flurry attacks would be +4/+4/–1.
If he also punched them, he would be getting more attacks/round than he is normally allowed via the TWFing action. Since he's doing that, he follows the TWFing rules, makes his attacks at (+3/+3/+3/-2), with the 3rd +3 attack being considered an offhand and only gaining the benefit of 1/2 +Str bonus.
He can't "also" punch them. He can full attack with flurry, or normally. If he makes a regular TWF full attack (no flurry) then he's at
Level 6 monk (BAB 4): +0/-4 (Or, if he has the TWF feat +2/+2)
Level 8 monk (BAB 6): +2/-3 (main) and -2 (off) (Or, if he has the TWF feat +4/-1 (main) and +4 (off))
This is assuming the monk either has 2 sai, or is using the sai as his 'off hand' to avoid complications with monk unarmed offhand stuff.
Fixed: WizardsOTC Thread: Monk minmax creation guide (yours had a space in it)Also, Thrilled, it's rather difficult to follow your posts. If you format them for the message board it would be much easier to read and respond to your points. Click the 'show' button beneath the message reply box to see formatting tips. Most importantly, enclosing things you're quoting in the "[ QUOTE ]" tags will make your responses stand out, just making them bold is hard on the eyes. You can use the Preview button to see how your post will look before you submit it.
Now, if a monk with a +6 BAB strikes someone with his sai with Flurry of Blows, he would get 3 attack (+5/+5/+0).This is incorrect. A monk with BAB 6 is level 8, his flurry of blows will be at +6/+6/+1/+1.
If you mean a monk who has a BAB of 6 while flurrying (IE: Level 6 monk) then his flurry attacks would be +4/+4/–1.
If he also punched them, he would be getting more attacks/round than he is normally allowed via the TWFing action. Since he's doing that, he follows the TWFing rules, makes his attacks at (+3/+3/+3/-2), with the 3rd +3 attack being considered an offhand and only gaining the benefit of 1/2 +Str bonus.He can't "also" punch them. He can full attack with flurry, or normally. If he makes a regular TWF full attack (no flurry) then he's at
Level 6 monk (BAB 4): +0/-4 (Or, if he has the TWF feat +2/+2)
Level 8 monk (BAB 6): +2/-3 (main) and -2 (off) (Or, if he has the TWF feat +4/-1 (main) and +4 (off))This is assuming the monk either has 2 sai, or is using the sai as his 'off hand' to avoid complications with monk unarmed offhand stuff.
Thanks for fixing the link :)
I can see what you mean regarding the quoting.. Not really fond of this message board since normally I just mark a text and choose the quote button. Not so friendly with the html coding. Still I understand what you mean especially since there was a missunderstanding much due to the bad formatting by me.
The BAB of 6 thing was a quote from another poster on the wizards forum and not my own words. However I liked the reasoning behind it (even if there are some errors in it).
Basically the only interesting thing to know is if unarmed strike/improved unarmed strike can be taken together with the TWF feats to gain more attacks. This is an essential question since there are archetypes for the monks that removes flurry of blows (which makes them totally gimped unless they increase their amount of attacks via TWF feats and still they will have less attacks).
Also the fighter has an archetype that is called Unarmed Fighter. That makes the fighter only to use his hands as weapons. This also gives me the indication that TWF feats should be allowed together with unarmed fighting. Why would a fighter otherwise go unarmed fighter archetyp to only gain 1d3 damage with his hands (unless he takes monastic legacy feat) and then only have 4 attacks at lvl 20? Of course he should be able to add the TWF feat line to be equal to the other fighter styles with dual weapons (he already suffers from having much worse threat range and pretty lousy multiplier) also he doesn't have the ki strikes etc that a monk recieved either.
Also the comments from most posters agree that TWF should be allowed as long you take the normal penalties involved too (which again is a penalty compared to the flurry of blows).
Of course the absolute best would be an official word about this, however until otherwise said I strongly feel that the TWF feats are justified to be chosen for an unarmed fighting character.
Best Regards!
/Thrilled
hey again!
This is very very interesting. First read the official post below from on of the Devs:
Quote
First off, I would like to apologize for taking a couple of day to get back to this question. As you may know, we have several avenues that questions can come into Wizards of the Coast from, and different people who may end up answering them. Since this was not a cut and dry answer, I wanted to coordinate with Customer Service and Sage's advice at Dragon magazine before posting the answer to your question.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----
Since we have a staff member here, maybe he could shed some light on whether or not Monks can benefit from Flurrying and the TWF tree feats at the same time?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----The simple answer is yes.
The long answer is that a monk with TWF can use both Flurry and TWF in a full attack. The penalties for doing so are added to all attacks and the additional attack gained from TWF only gets +1/2 Str bonus to damage.
Example: 4th level Monk, Str 14, BAB +3, TWF feat.
Atk: Unarmed +5 melee (1d8+2)
Flurry: 2 Unarmed +3 melee (1d8+2)
Flurry and TWF: 2 Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+2) and Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+1)If you have a weapon, such as a sai, that is special monk weapon and you can flurry with it, you can only use that weapon as either as your primary hand attack or off-hand attack, but not both.
Example: same as above with a +1 Sai.
Flurry and TWF: 2 Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+2) and +1 Sai +2 melee (1d4+2)or
Flurry and TWF: 2 +1 Sai +2 melee (1d4+3) and Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+1)
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Andrew J. Finch
Development Manager
RPG R&D/Miniatures R&D
Wizards of the CoastThis is also backed up by the most recent Sage Advice column in Dragon 320 and will be forthcomming in the updated mainFAQ.
Now lets look at this example:
Example: 4th level Monk, Str 14, BAB +3, TWF feat.
Atk: Unarmed +5 melee (1d8+2)
Flurry: 2 Unarmed +3 melee (1d8+2)
Flurry and TWF: 2 Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+2) and Unarmed +1 melee (1d8+1)
This is an unarmed monk, normally he is having two strikes through flurry. However by taking the twf feat he gains an extra unarmed "offhand" attack. Doing this though gives him the -2 penalty to all his attacks and not only the unarmed "offhand" attack. So now it should be officially cleared that the twf feats work along with unarmed fighting. Since then it shouldn't matter if you have flurry or not as long you have unarmed strikes and adding the twf feat then you should gain the extra "offhand" attack and the penalties that comes along with that.
Glad I got this all cleared :)
Goodluck to you all!
/Thrilled