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I am attending my first Pathfinder Society game at the Memphis Gamecon. I was able to reserve a seat at 3 sessions. The first session is for level 1-5 play, and the other two are 5-9 play. I was planning on just making a level 5 character using the Pathfinder Society Guide but I couldn't find out whether or not I was able to register a level 5 character or if I have to start with a level 1 character. Anyone know? Thanks in advance.
Cheers!
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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You have to start with a level 1 character. And a level 1 character isn't eligible to play in a 5-9 scenario so you would need to play a pre-generated character. And unfortunately you wouldn't receive a chronicle sheet (or any gold and XP) for those scenarios.
Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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You have to start with a level 1 character. And a level 1 character isn't eligible to play in a 5-9 scenario so you would need to play a pre-generated character. And unfortunately you wouldn't receive a chronicle sheet (or any gold and XP) for those scenarios.
Worse, you wouldn't be able to replay them later for credit.
Unless you're just dipping in with the intention of seeing what it is like, skip the 5-9 modules.
If, instead, you plan on using this to start your PFS "career" then get generic tickets for the low level slots and hang around on the fringes hoping someone doesn't show up for a table. Then you can take their spot.
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Worse, you wouldn't be able to replay them later for credit.
I still do not agree with this, and this is still not How I Organize it.
The rule is this.
No player can receive more than 1 player Chronicle and 1 GM Chronicle for the same scenario, regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to replay a scenario in order to meet a minimum PC requirement (see Chapter 6), but if you already have received a player Chronicle for this scenario for any of your PCs, you do not earn any additional rewards beyond having a good time.
Since they never recieved a Chroncile for it when they played it, they can still play it later with a Legal character to get that Chronicle.
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Well I was able to get into these 1st level games instead:
PFS Intro 1: First Steps—Part I: In Service to Lore (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Adam Daigle. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. In your first mission as a Pathfinder agent, the head of the Grand Lodge sends you on a number of missions throughout the metropolis of Absalom, pitting you against traps,thieves, and even an unruly devil, all in the pursuit of knowledge.
PFS Intro 2: First Steps—Part II: To Delve the Dungeon Deep (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Stephen Radney-MacFarland. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. You venture for the first time into the massive haunted dungeons beneath an abandoned siege tower in the deadly Cairnlands, where you will experience firsthand the true dangers of being a tomb-delving Pathfinder.
PFS Intro 3: First Steps—Part III: A Vision of Betrayal (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Larry Wilhelm. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. Dispatched on an envoy mission overland from Absalom to port city Escadar, you must weather the harsh wilderness of the Isle of Kortos before you can hope to meet with the representative of the elusive gillmen, and only then come face to face with the greatest threat to the Pathfinder Society.
Do those seem better?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Worse, you wouldn't be able to replay them later for credit.I still do not agree with this, and this is still not How I Organize it.
The rule is this.
No player can receive more than 1 player Chronicle and 1 GM Chronicle for the same scenario, regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to replay a scenario in order to meet a minimum PC requirement (see Chapter 6), but if you already have received a player Chronicle for this scenario for any of your PCs, you do not earn any additional rewards beyond having a good time.Since they never recieved a Chroncile for it when they played it, they can still play it later with a Legal character to get that Chronicle.
Never said I agreed with it. I just know how the reporting system handles it.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Well I was able to get into these 1st level games instead:
PFS Intro 1: First Steps—Part I: In Service to Lore (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Adam Daigle. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. In your first mission as a Pathfinder agent, the head of the Grand Lodge sends you on a number of missions throughout the metropolis of Absalom, pitting you against traps,thieves, and even an unruly devil, all in the pursuit of knowledge.PFS Intro 2: First Steps—Part II: To Delve the Dungeon Deep (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Stephen Radney-MacFarland. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. You venture for the first time into the massive haunted dungeons beneath an abandoned siege tower in the deadly Cairnlands, where you will experience firsthand the true dangers of being a tomb-delving Pathfinder.PFS Intro 3: First Steps—Part III: A Vision of Betrayal (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Larry Wilhelm. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. Dispatched on an envoy mission overland from Absalom to port city Escadar, you must weather the harsh wilderness of the Isle of Kortos before you can hope to meet with the representative of the elusive gillmen, and only then come face to face with the greatest threat to the Pathfinder Society.Do those seem better?
This is ideal. All three are fun modules, and this will give you an excellent background in the campaign while getting you to 2nd level. You'll have much more fun.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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These are what I have to choose from:
http://warhorn.net/gamecon-2011/scenario/list.php#28
There are still spots available in all of them. Any recommendations for beginning with a 1st level character?
If you have the chance after playing the First Steps modules, get in on Frostfur Captives (incredibly fun) and Tide of Twilight (not yet released, but seems very promising). Definitely play First Steps all through, to start, however.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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Never said I agreed with it. I just know how the reporting system handles it.Easy, if they don't get a Chroncile sheet you don't report it for that player. I don't report myself for games I sit in to fill a table, I just report the players that actually get the credit.
I doubt his convention organizer will do that for him unless specifically asked to. At which point, the convention organizer may take the stance of, "Are you asking me to cheat?"
You can control your own coordinating. Asking others to do what you do risks offending principles they may have that are different from yours.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Never said I agreed with it. I just know how the reporting system handles it.Easy, if they don't get a Chroncile sheet you don't report it for that player. I don't report myself for games I sit in to fill a table, I just report the players that actually get the credit.I doubt his convention organizer will do that for him unless specifically asked to. At which point, the convention organizer may take the stance of, "Are you asking me to cheat?"
You can control your own coordinating. Asking others to do what you do risks offending principles they may have that are different from yours.
So you'd prefer to knowingly let someone misreport scenarios, rather than risk offending them?
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I doubt his convention organizer will do that for him unless specifically asked to. At which point, the convention organizer may take the stance of, "Are you asking me to cheat?"You can control your own coordinating. Asking others to do what you do risks offending principles they may have that are different from yours.
Sorry for bringing this off topic.
It is not cheating..
When you hand in your Session report, you leave off the players that did not get credit.
I have handed in Session reports with no names on it but myself at Gen Con a few times *Not This year*.
People who do not get credit are not added to the Report.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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This makes me wonder what Drogon does when he has a player who already has a player chronicle for the scenario.
Does he leave them off the reporting sheet? If so, why is it different if you switch the order of the credit and non-credit playings of the scenario?
Does he put them on the reporting sheet anyway? Does that mean they get double-reported for that scenario and might later get called a cheater?
Does he simply refuse to seat them at all?
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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This makes me wonder what Drogon does when he has a player who already has a player chronicle for the scenario.
Does he leave them off the reporting sheet? If so, why is it different if you switch the order of the credit and non-credit playings of the scenario?
Does he put them on the reporting sheet anyway? Does that mean they get double-reported for that scenario and might later get called a cheater?
Does he simply refuse to seat them at all?
How in the world did I wind up being the cheater in this? I'm not the one proposing to skip the system by not reporting people so that they can get credit later.
In answer to the questions:
I announce modules ahead of time. If a player has played it, he doesn't sign up for it. If he signs up for it and has played it, it's on his head when we find out (I'll give his seat to someone else - I never lack for players). If, somehow, he plays it a second time, I report it as it was turned in and let the powers that be know. It can get handled that way. Why should I get involved?
To answer Jiggy's prior question: Dear God, no. I would vastly prefer to approach the man and state, "Seeing as I'm playing a pregen, could you just leave me off?" But, as I said, what if the coordinator says, "No. That's cheating." Then the player has to knowingly attempt to cheat the system by trying to play it for credit later. How is that better? Fascinating.
For the record, because I schedule modules ahead of time, and because I (mostly) know what players have played, and because I (apparently) have a group of honest players in Denver, I have never had this come up. I'm sorry if the rest of you have to deal with dishonesty.
Wow, do I need to step away from this. I'm obviously a little riled, and offended that people would jump on someone like this.
Done, now...
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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I don't think anyone's trying to accuse you of "being the cheater", Drogon. My apologies if I sounded that way.
All I'm saying is that if you report a player as having played a scenario, but don't give him a chronicle, something's gone wrong. At that point the GM/Coordinator/whoever has created a situation in which the player can never receive a player chronicle for that scenario, ever.
Under no circumstances should a player whose only goals are to (A) play a scenario and (B) get exactly one chronicle sheet for said scenario EVER be seen as trying to "cheat the system".
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I don't think anyone's trying to accuse you of "being the cheater", Drogon. My apologies if I sounded that way.
All I'm saying is that if you report a player as having played a scenario, but don't give him a chronicle, something's gone wrong. At that point the GM/Coordinator/whoever has created a situation in which the player can never receive a player chronicle for that scenario, ever.
Under no circumstances should a player whose only goals are to (A) play a scenario and (B) get exactly one chronicle sheet for said scenario EVER be seen as trying to "cheat the system".
Fair enough. I hope never to be presented with this issue, as I hope my organizational and promotional methods will bypass this situation.
Thank you for the apology. I'm a little more calm, now, having read between the lines.
I'm sorry to have fired back like that.
[Edit]
Hm. The edits to my prior comment didn't come across, so I look significantly less offended than I actually was. Interesting how the universe works, sometimes...
To add to that comment (a little more rationally, this time), I have never had this come up. I think, because I announce what modules are being played ahead of time, because I (mostly) know what various players have played, and because everyone in Denver seems to be *not* trying to replay modules, I have not once had the system tell me that someone had replayed it and been faced with this situation. The one time it happened it was an honest mistake, as the wrong player was listed; he was at the table prior to realizing he had played the module - he subsequently switched tables and forgot to take his number off the reporting sheet).
So, like I said, I hope my organizational skills keep this from happening.
[Re-Edit]
Now my prior edits are showing. How bizarre.
Please just ignore me. It's obvious that I'm in Weird World today, need to stop paying attention to the internet, and do my job...
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To answer Jiggy's prior question: Dear God, no. I would vastly prefer to approach the man and state, "Seeing as I'm playing a pregen, could you just leave me off?" But, as I said, what if the coordinator says, "No. That's cheating." Then the player has to knowingly attempt to cheat the system by trying to play it for credit later. How is that better? Fascinating.
Here is the problem... What makes you think leaving a person of a report who did not get credit as cheating?
Why would a coordinator think that?
Why would you report someone who did not get credit?
I am not saying you are cheating, I am saying you are looking at it wrong.
You do not add someone to the report that does not get credit for the scenario, and it is not cheating to do that.
Either way, it is the Chroncile Sheet in the end that is the offical record not PFS reporting system.
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Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds
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I have obviously failed in my desire to stay away and do my job...
Here is the problem... What makes you think leaving a person of a report who did not get credit as cheating?
That very act is called misrepresentation. Most organized play systems see that word as "cheating."
Why would a coordinator think that?
Because he has different morals than you? Not better, not right, just different. Human nature is like that.
Why would you report someone who did not get credit?
Because I'm supposed to? Because the way I see it, I'm supposed to report anyone who played it? Again, not saying it's right or wrong (or that I even see it that way). It's just how human nature works.
I am not saying you are cheating, I am saying you are looking at it wrong.
I don't have to worry about what you think of how I'm looking at it. I have to worry about how other people (specifically, those in charge of this system) see what I'm doing with their organized play system. If they think I'm cheating I can't point at you and say "But, Dragnmoon said it was alright." Pretty sure that won't work.
This is a debate that should be taken elsewhere. Moreover, this is a debate that people in a different position than you or I should be having. As they have never come out with an official clarification of what that should be, you are free to interpret this your way while others interpret it their way. I will keep my own counsel to myself.
Now, having said that, I will repeat myself: I have yet to have this come up and not be solvable. I hope it doesn't. If it does, I will deal with it at that point and let you know the results.
Until then, I'm done with this thread. I swear my will shall hold up and I will not be back.
'Bye.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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It never really struck me to report a pregen. Treating a registered PFS player more harshly than someone who has never registered or played always struck me as odd.
The guide could simply say each player can only play a scenario once. Instead it talks in terms of chronicles awarded.
I am not seeing the benefit in penalising a player who agrees to make up the numbers by playing a pregen by denying her the chance to play for credit in the future. That the reporting system doesn't distinguish between the first time you play a scenario and the first time you play it for credit really means one of two things.
Either it does mean that Paizo seems to feel that playing a pregen before you play for credit is significantly different to doing it vice versa and should carry the heavy penalty of no play for credit ever.
Or
It is just something the software wasn't specified to deal with and is not worth fixing as simply not reporting play without credit is a clean workaround.
Though not at the top of anyones To Do list it strikes me as a matter that could be swiftly clarified by our new glorious leader :-)
W
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Whenever I had a player not playing for credit I didn't report them to Paizo. I thought this was correct. This applied if they were playing a pregen or replaying for no credit. I have reported several events with no or limited player details because I did not have them. I always thought this was the right thing to do.
I'm not even sure how the thread got to this horrible derailment.
Back on topic:
Asphere: I think the First Steps trilogy is pretty neat and there's a lot of Pathfinder Flavor that shows up in them that is otherwise easy to miss. I don't really feel there's a lot of must play adventures or horrible duds. I think most of the fun (that's outside of your direct control) comes from the GM and not the adventure. So pick whatever sounds interesting, remember to bring your dice, get plenty of sleep and everything else will likely work its self out.
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Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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Well I was able to get into these 1st level games instead:
PFS Intro 1: First Steps—Part I: In Service to Lore (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Adam Daigle. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. In your first mission as a Pathfinder agent, the head of the Grand Lodge sends you on a number of missions throughout the metropolis of Absalom, pitting you against traps,thieves, and even an unruly devil, all in the pursuit of knowledge.PFS Intro 2: First Steps—Part II: To Delve the Dungeon Deep (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Stephen Radney-MacFarland. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. You venture for the first time into the massive haunted dungeons beneath an abandoned siege tower in the deadly Cairnlands, where you will experience firsthand the true dangers of being a tomb-delving Pathfinder.PFS Intro 3: First Steps—Part III: A Vision of Betrayal (Pathfinder Society - Pathfinder RPG)
By Larry Wilhelm. A Pathfinder Society Scenario designed for 1st level characters. Dispatched on an envoy mission overland from Absalom to port city Escadar, you must weather the harsh wilderness of the Isle of Kortos before you can hope to meet with the representative of the elusive gillmen, and only then come face to face with the greatest threat to the Pathfinder Society.Do those seem better?
Actually, that is a great way to begin both Pathfinder Society play and to learn more about the Society itself.
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Venture-Captain, Croatia & Slovenia
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Whenever I had a player not playing for credit I didn't report them to Paizo. I thought this was correct. This applied if they were playing a pregen or replaying for no credit. I have reported several events with no or limited player details because I did not have them. I always thought this was the right thing to do.
I'm not even sure how the thread got to this horrible derailment.
I'm probably butting in by continuing the derailment but it raises a good question - I had several premade characters playing at Tier 1 tables and basically I'd issue them their PFS number and report later just the number (for example I'd report player No. 1234-1) and I presume later the same player will register and also register their real character with a name but still with the same number and they'll get credit for.
Am I making a mistake?
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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I am not seeing the benefit in penalising a player who agrees to make up the numbers by playing a pregen by denying her the chance to play for credit in the future. That the reporting system doesn't distinguish between the first time you play a scenario and the first time you play it for credit really means one of two things. Either it does mean that Paizo seems to feel that playing a pregen before you play for credit is significantly different to doing it vice versa and should carry the heavy penalty of no play for credit ever.
Hey there, Heretic.
I'm speaking entirely for myself.
I think there is a big difference between playing a pre-gen first or playing for credit first.
A player who sits down at a table (with any sort of character) after already playing the scenario is expected to "play dumb" about the encounters and surprises, but that's hard to do when your replay is the session which really counts. I see a big difference between a player who has her PC work to the best of her ability, working with her limited knowledge, and receives a chronicle for her troubles; and then later replays with a pre-gen for no credit ... versus a player who encounters the dangers and traps of a scenario with a pre-gen (or with several iterations of pre-gens, dying and "rezzing" at the entrance at the beginning of the next session) before going through with his precious PC.
If you want the chronicle, you need to take the commensurate risk, and I don't see playing the scenario with full knowledge of its challenges to be as risky.
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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If you want the chronicle, you need to take the commensurate risk, and I don't see playing the scenario with full knowledge of its challenges to be as risky.
Although your concern is valid, keep in mind too that a given person is also allowed to GM a scenario (and get a chronicle for it), and then later play the same scenario and receive a second chronicle (albeit applied to a different character).
There's even more risk of metagaming in that situation than in what you described, yet it's allowed.
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For what it's worth this came up for me specifically at Gen Con.
I had players at tables playing level 5-9 modules with pregens who had received chronicles. I was under the impression this was not permitted, but one of the players in question said that he had heard directly that it was. I went to Mark Moreland, who at the time was the best resource available.
Mark was quite clear - if you play a 5-9 module with a pregen you will not receive a chronicle sheet under any circumstances. He was quite adamant about it too with reasons that mirror Chris' above. The player in question was not happy too, and Mark was well aware that it was going to happen. I did not ask him about reporting those sessions, so I am not speaking to that half of the issue.
Now we do have a new OP head with Mike Brock starting soon. Mike might have different feelings on this topic; however, until he weighs in, I plan on sticking with the instructions given to me by Mr. Moreland - you will not receive a chronicle for a pregen.
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Venture-Captain, Croatia & Slovenia
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I plan on sticking with the instructions given to me by Mr. Moreland - you will not receive a chronicle for a pregen.
It makes perfect sense for upper tier pregens.
But in my opinion, if people are just starting out and still getting to know PF, it seems sensible to allow pregens for first level only. If people like it, they will most definitely try to make their own character and it makes sense to let them keep the credit.
At least that was my (short) experience sofar.
Maybe its just a judgment call that differs from place to place.
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But in my opinion, if people are just starting out and still getting to know PF, it seems sensible to allow pregens for first level only. If people like it, they will most definitely try to make their own character and it makes sense to let them keep the credit.
This situation is already covered by V4 of the guide, at least for thier first scenario.
If you play a 1st-level pregenerated character, you can even apply the credit for
its first adventure to a newly created character of your very own.
If someone plays a 5-9 scenario at a con or something using a pre-gen because they don't have a character of the appropriate level, and then goes on to play the same scenario at a later point with a character that is the appropraite level I don't have a problem with giving them a chronical for it. Now if they used a pre-gen in place of a character they had that Could partipate I would feel diffrently.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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Hey there, Heretic.
I'm speaking entirely for myself.
I think there is a big difference between playing a pre-gen first or playing for credit first.
I hear you mate and of course I can only speak for myself as well. I am of the generation that looks upon the idea of someone beng allowed to play a scenario after they have read it let alone GM'd it as wholey unnatural. However as was pointed out by Jiggy we do let G.M.s play after they have GM'd it. I am sure no one sees that as ideal but in terms of a cost/benefit anlayses it works out better if we do it that way.
If you want the chronicle, you need to take the commensurate risk, and I don't see playing the scenario with full knowledge of its challenges to be as risky.
I sympathise but given Jiggy's point and the limited cicumstances someone is likley to be in for this to be an issue the cost benefit equation for me is clear. The cost of the risk of someone using prior knowledge vs the benefit of encouraging someone to make up the the numbers? I do reckon it's counter to the philosphy of PPP to make reasons to discourage someone grabbing a pregen to allow a game to go ahead.
W
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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For what it's worth this came up for me specifically at Gen Con.
I had players at tables playing level 5-9 modules with pregens who had received chronicles. I was under the impression this was not permitted, but one of the players in question said that he had heard directly that it was. I went to Mark Moreland, who at the time was the best resource available.
Mark was quite clear - if you play a 5-9 module with a pregen you will not receive a chronicle sheet under any circumstances. He was quite adamant about it too with reasons that mirror Chris' above. The player in question was not happy too, and Mark was well aware that it was going to happen. I did not ask him about reporting those sessions, so I am not speaking to that half of the issue.
Now we do have a new OP head with Mike Brock starting soon. Mike might have different feelings on this topic; however, until he weighs in, I plan on sticking with the instructions given to me by Mr. Moreland - you will not receive a chronicle for a pregen.
I think you are correct in following Mark's instructions. In the instance you mention he was as ever spot on. It is cool to see the forum help steer the OP away from turning up at the con and ending up with no credit for two games when there was it seems the option to get into games with his own PC!
With the exception (as per the guide) of playing a level 1 pregen, the rule is clear: playing a pregen does not get you a chronicle. The issue is do the rules then prevent you from playing the scenario for credit with a "real" character in the future? It appears that if you report the character using the players PFS number it means that a future "legit" character cannot get the credit recorded. However the guide speaks in terms of limiting chronicles to a max of 1 per scenario played (and/or GM'd ofc!) rather than a max of 0 or 1 depending on if a pregen is used first.
W
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I've decided that I am going to play a human rogue. Here is the rundown (I got from the database and used PCgen to check), if you spot something that is wrong please let me know - thanks!
_______________________________
Human Rogue 1
Medium humanoid (human)
Init +4; Senses Perception +4
_______________________________
DEFENSE
AC 16, touch 14, flat-footed 12
(armor +2, Dex +4)
hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +0
_______________________________
OFFENSE
Spd 30 ft.
Melee shortsword +4 (1d6+2, 19-20/x2) or
shortsword +2 (1d6+2, 19-20/x2) and shortsword +2 (1d6+1, 19-20/x2)
Ranged shortbow +4 (1d6, 20/x3)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks sneak attack +1d6
_______________________________
STATISTICS
Str 14 (+2), Dex 18 (+4), Con 12 (+1), Int 14 (+2), Wis 10 (+0), Cha 8 (-1)
Base Atk +0; CMB +2; CMD 16
Feats Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
Skills Acrobatics +8, Bluff +3, Climb +6, Diplomacy +3, Disable Device +9, Escape Artist +8, Knowledge (local) +6, Perception +4 (+5 finding traps), Sense Motive +4, Stealth +8, Swim +6
Languages Common, Goblin, Orc
SQ trapfinding +1
Combat Gear sunrod (2); Other Gear shortsword (2), shortbow and 20 arrows, leather armor, backpack, belt pouch, thieves’ tools, silk rope (50 ft.), grappling hook, bedroll, flint and steel, rations (10), waterskin, 25 gp, 9 sp
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In no particular order:
On the character:
Looks okay. Might want to consider UMD, since that might be the only way the party may get any healing.
You have 25+ gp left. Consider spending 20 of it for a flask of Alchemical Fire. Not going to claim that every module has a swarm in it, but it doesn't hurt to be prepared...
On higher level pregens and gaining credit later for a module:
If you aren't giving someone a Chronicle, you also are not reporting their participation in the scenario, whether it is because they are playing a pregen because they signed up for a scenario they don't have a character at the proper level to play it with, or they are playing a pregen to be that required third or fourth player to make a table for a game they have already played.
So far as I know, and have heard mentioned, the online database has no way to track someone who played, but gets no credit for the scenario. For a GM, you just don't include a PC number. For a player, you just don't report their participation.
So, if they aren't being reported, because they aren't playing a character that can be reported, how do you know if they played through the scenario with a pregen before they had a character legal to play in it or not?
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For what it's worth this came up for me specifically at Gen Con.
I had players at tables playing level 5-9 modules with pregens who had received chronicles. I was under the impression this was not permitted, but one of the players in question said that he had heard directly that it was. I went to Mark Moreland, who at the time was the best resource available.
Mark was quite clear - if you play a 5-9 module with a pregen you will not receive a chronicle sheet under any circumstances. He was quite adamant about it too with reasons that mirror Chris' above. The player in question was not happy too, and Mark was well aware that it was going to happen. I did not ask him about reporting those sessions, so I am not speaking to that half of the issue.
Now we do have a new OP head with Mike Brock starting soon. Mike might have different feelings on this topic; however, until he weighs in, I plan on sticking with the instructions given to me by Mr. Moreland - you will not receive a chronicle for a pregen.
Stick with the ruling Mark gave earlier. He and I see eye-to-eye on it and the ruling will remain as it has been.
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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Stick with the ruling Mark gave earlier. He and I see eye-to-eye on it and the ruling will remain as it has been.
Michael
At the risk of Provoking your coordinatorly ire, I'd just say that as far as posters here it seems we agree the guys that Ryan met who had ben awarded chronicles for playing pregens of above 1st level had been awarded them in error.
The matter that there is some scholarly debate about on this thread (and granted the discussion is a bit of a derailment in itself) is should we be trying to report a player who plays a higher level pregen and does that reporting preclude that player from playing that scenario for credit with a 'proper' character later?
W
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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In no particular order:
On higher level pregens and gaining credit later for a module:
If you aren't giving someone a Chronicle, you also are not reporting their participation in the scenario, whether it is because they are playing a pregen because they signed up for a scenario they don't have a character at the proper level to play it with, or they are playing a pregen to be that required third or fourth player to make a table for a game they have already played.
So far as I know, and have heard mentioned, the online database has no way to track someone who played, but gets no credit for the scenario. For a GM, you just don't include a PC number. For a player, you just don't report their participation.
So, if they aren't being reported, because they aren't playing a character that can be reported, how do you know if they played through the scenario with a pregen before they had a character legal to play in it or not?
I have not checked this but the impression I got from the thread that the player could be reported and tracked so the 2nd reported game got no online record of credit. If they cannot be then then I guess it becomes a non issue. Unless a GM is expected to check if players have played sans credit and ban them playing for an initial chronicle.
W
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Yes, each time a player plays, whether a pre-gen or not, should be reported by the GM. Once you play the scenario once and GM it once, you may not receive credit for it any other time.
So, if you play a Tier 3-7, 5-9 or 7-11 game for the first time with a Pre-Generated character, you do not receive a Chronicle Sheet. Any other time you play it after this first time, even if your character is of the correct level, you do not receive a Chronicle Sheet because you have already played the scenario. You essentially are playing the character for "free" and do not receive anything from it except a good time with friends and other PFS fans.
I do support, if you are a new player, playing a level 1 pre-generated character in your first game, whether that be a Tier 1 only, Tier 1-5 or Tier 1-7, you should receive a Chronicle Sheet for playing your first game. However, you should then create a character of your own and apply that first Chronicle Sheet to the newly created character. Any future scenarios you play with that pre-gen will not be creditied with a Chronicle Sheet. Likewise, you may not play 3 different pre-gens in 3 different scenarios and apply those 3 Chronicle Sheets to the same, newly created character.
I know there are people who are not happy with this rule but it is the best way to approach it. It keeps someone from playing the same scenario multiple times with a pre-generated character and then turning around and playing their own character for credit.
At the risk of Provoking your coordinatorly ire,
I think you were more toungue-in-cheek, but since I am new, I wanted to clear up any misconceptions.
I don't want anyone to feel they can't ask questions about the rules or campaign. My ire is not going to be provoked. At the base of everything, this is still just a game. I sometimes feel people lose focus on that. I will participate in a discussion. I will not participate in an argument. If people start turning other posters into punching bags because of difference of opinions, whether they are a Venture-Captain or not, the thread will be locked and I will deal with the offending posters via email away from the message boards. It is time to restore civility to these boards that has seemed to disappear over the past few months.
I am happy to discuss all details of Pathfinder Society. I will not argue with anyone and I sure am not going to display some kind of rage at a disagreement. I know not every ruling I will make will be popular by everyone and I accept that. But, always know, my interest lie in trying to maintain what is best for the campaign at large for the more than 10,000 players that play this game, of which, 80%+ do not participate on these message boards.
As to the OP, I hope you have a fantastic time at your game day, playing through First Steps. Please come back and tell us how it went and we will try not to derail it (me included). :)
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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Yes, each time a player plays, whether a pre-gen or not, should be reported by the GM. Once you play the scenario once and GM it once, you may not receive credit for it any other time.
So, if you play a Tier 3-7, 5-9 or 7-11 game for the first time with a Pre-Generated character, you do not receive a Chronicle Sheet. Any other time you play it after this first time, even if your character is of the correct level, you do not receive a Chronicle Sheet because you have already played the scenario. You essentially are playing the character for "free" and do not receive anything from it except a good time with friends and other PFS fans.
I do support, if you are a new player, playing a level 1 pre-generated character in your first game, whether that be a Tier 1 only, Tier 1-5 or Tier 1-7, you should receive a Chronicle Sheet for playing your first game. However, you should then create a character of your own and apply that first Chronicle Sheet to the newly created character. Any future scenarios you play with that pre-gen will not be creditied with a Chronicle Sheet. Likewise, you may not play 3 different pre-gens in 3 different scenarios and apply those 3 Chronicle Sheets to the same, newly created character.
I know there are people who are not happy with this rule but it is the best way to approach it. It keeps someone from playing the same scenario multiple times with a pre-generated character and then turning around and playing their own character for credit.
At the risk of Provoking your coordinatorly ire,
I think you were more toungue-in-cheek, but since I am new, I wanted to clear up any misconceptions.
I don't want anyone to feel they can't ask questions about the rules or campaign. My ire is not going to be provoked. At the base of everything, this is still just a game. I sometimes feel people lose focus on that.
I am happy to discuss all details of Pathfinder Society. I will not argue with anyone and I sure am not going to display some kind...
My Tongue was in my cheek to a certain extent. And I am glad you are up for a bit of debate.
Thanks for the reply. It was clear and even included a rationale which is always nice. I genuinely think that it discourages getting the 4th player for games if we are rewarding someone who agrees to make up the numbers by playing a pregen by saying that they sacrifice the option playing it again for credit. ( I think the 4.0 guide now specifies that a level 1 pregen is differently handled to all others).
Still you are the boss regardless of what I think I will report as instructed.
TTFN
W
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I understand the discouraging a 4th player to join. However, a legal table can be run with 3 and a pre-gen. I am also busily working to get sanctioned modules completed so we can offer those as well. I won't give you a timeline when they will be available but they are on the top of my priority list and I want to get them out sooner rather than later. This will hopefully offer additional options to allow everyone to play the same scenario.
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I understand the discouraging a 4th player to join. However, a legal table can be run with 3 and a pre-gen. I am also busily working to get sanctioned modules completed so we can offer those as well. I won't give you a timeline when they will be available but they are on the top of my priority list and I want to get them out sooner rather than later. This will hopefully offer additional options to allow everyone to play the same scenario.
Good to hear Mike. I'll be looking forward to this.
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I am also busily working to get sanctioned modules completed so we can offer those as well. I won't give you a timeline when they will be available but they are on the top of my priority list and I want to get them out sooner rather than later. This will hopefully offer additional options to allow everyone to play the same scenario.
Since every module that comes out is sanctioned when it comes out, I am assuming you are talking about Older ones that have not been sanctioned?
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Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
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I understand the discouraging a 4th player to join. However, a legal table can be run with 3 and a pre-gen. I am also busily working to get sanctioned modules completed so we can offer those as well. I won't give you a timeline when they will be available but they are on the top of my priority list and I want to get them out sooner rather than later. This will hopefully offer additional options to allow everyone to play the same scenario.
Really good news on those mods. All those old mods tantalisingly close to being usable for PFS play and yet just out of reach! I have been hoping someone would be able to find a way to free up this potentially huge resource for society play.
On the other matter. I have struggled on how to phrase this without seeming petulant or being really longwinded. Neither represents my intent.
Here goes: I know we can use an NPC but regardless of what the minimum number of players is, penalising a player who steps into the breach makes it harder to get that minimum.
Even then 4 is so much better than 3 and an NPC that it I would vote for using any means necessary, short of breaching the 1 chron per scenario played rule, to avoid it.
I could go on. And on. I won't. But to be clear: I just I don't follow that anyone is going to play a scenario with a pregen as multiple practice sessions before the real event. I do see having to run hard cap tables and/or turn ppl away or use an NPC when previously I would not.
Anyway onwards and upwards,
W
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Here goes: I know we can use an NPC but regardless of what the minimum number of players is, penalising a player who steps into the breach makes it harder to get that minimum.
Even then 4 is so much better than 3 and an NPC that it I would vote for using any means necessary, short of breaching the 1 chron per scenario played rule, to avoid it.I could go on. And on. I won't I just I don't follow that anyone is going to play a scenario with a pregen as multiple practice sessions before the real event. I do see having to run hard cap tables and/or turn ppl away or use an NPC when previously I would not.
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I've decided that I am going to play a human rogue. Here is the rundown (I got from the database and used PCgen to check), if you spot something that is wrong please let me know - thanks!
There is a new dagger fighter archetype in ultimate combat, you may want to consider that. You may also want to consider a ninja in preference to the rogue. I would have a 14 Con and Int 12 instead of vice versa. You get plenty of skills, but hit points will be the problem for a melee rogue. (I am not a fan of bluffing in combat for PFS - in case that was the reason for the Int).
The advice on UMD is good - my TWF rogues rarely have a Str bonus at all. TWF doesn't do much at 1st level, I'd be tempted to go for Improved Initiate and get TWF through the rogue talent at a later level.