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A creature with a caster level of 15 self-buffs for several rounds, casting stoneskin(sl4), shield(sl1) and fly (sl3) and some other things. It then enters combat and is targeted by a Dispel Magic (targeted).
a) Since this creature is the caster of all the buffs and has a caster level of 15, all these self-buffs are cl 15 effects regardless of the spell level, correct ? That is, when calculating the DC to dispel, "the spell's caster level" is the caster level of the entity that cast the spell. The spell level has nothing to to with it, correct ?
b) If a is true then all of the buffs have the same caster level. Assume the caster of the dispel (the dispeller) rolls well enough (1d20 + dispeller's cl) to beat the DC of 11 + the spell's caster level, wich of the several buffs is dispelled ? I'm probably remembering an old v3.5 rule that said the HIGHEST (spell) level effect was dispelled first, but I can't find this rule in Pathfinder.
a) Both correct.
b) From this:
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.
[...]
You can also use a targeted dispel to specifically end one spell affecting the target or one spell affecting an area (such as a wall of fire). You must name the specific spell effect to be targeted in this way. If your caster level check is equal to or higher than the DC of that spell, it ends. No other spells or effects on the target are dispelled if your check is not high enough to end the targeted effect.
You are right, there's nothing telling you which spell gets ended if there are several with the same caster level.
But you can target a specific spell instead of checking from highest to lowest until you succeed.
Therefore, I'd allow the dispeller to choose which effect he wants to end. Although, if you want to be more cruel, you could determine it randomly.
Now that we're at it... This means that you could cast a (useless) heightened spell + several normal buffs on yourself, so that the heightened spell is the one that gets dispelled first (as long as the enemy caster just casts DM on you and doesn't try to dispel a specific spell, that is. ^^)
Correct.
Easier to achieve than my version if you can afford to cast your buffs at less-than-maximum caster level.
And yes, thinking about it a second time, random feels like it's the better way to handle it.
Correct.
Easier to achieve than my version if you can afford to cast your buffs at less-than-maximum caster level.And yes, thinking about it a second time, random feels like it's the better way to handle it.
Although depending on the dispel magic check, it's possible a roll isn't high enough to dispel the top CL spell, but could affect a lower level one. Eg, CL 15 stoneskin (DC 26) and CL 1 mage armor (DC 12). Isn't foolproof, but would help you order them to some degree (at the expense of duration).
I would think for the caster to determine the effect he wants to target, he needs to know first what buffs are on the target in the first place.
A wall of fire is a pretty obvious effect, most buffs aren't.
Also note that the effect for targeting a specific spell clearly states it doesn't trickle down to lower DC spells if it fails. So your idea of "letting him choose then" is basicly giving him the best of both worlds, which is not really fair.
Usually in such cases it's "roll a die and choose randomly".
Hmm, in 3.5 dispel magic spefically started with the highest spell level spell then worked down from there, that seems to be missing from the PF SRD...
Allia: Yes, I've already acknowledged that.
And of course you wouldn't reduce the caster level of your buffs by ridiculous amounts... One level is the exact right amount. It's placing the reduced buffs one step back in removal order without reducing buff efficiency to much and making it that much easier to dispel.
That example is a bit overdone. I'm suggesting lowering the caster level of the spell you least want to lose by 1. If you have four spells at CL 15 and one at CL 14, then the CL 14 is reasonably likely to stay unless it's specifically targeted with dispel.Although depending on the dispel magic check, it's possible a roll isn't high enough to dispel the top CL spell, but could affect a lower level one. Eg, CL 15 stoneskin (DC 26) and CL 1 mage armor (DC 12). Isn't foolproof, but would help you order them to some degree (at the expense of duration).
Yep.
I guess I was trying to warn against staggering all your spells so that you control the order of dispels. Eg:
CL 15 - Fly
CL 14 - Stoneskin
CL 13 - Mirror Image
CL 12 - False Life
CL 11 - Shield
CL 10 - Mage Armor
If you go crazy with this, you'll increase the odds of something getting dispelled.
I'm all on board with having a two layer system where you cast the more important spells at one level lower. Then you only have a 5% chance of them hitting your important spell collection with a dispel magic.