| Scion of the Wolf |
I have an idea for a Half-Orc Wizard who can do his race proud and keep his own in a fight. A real kick-in-the-door adventurer type that would be fun to play. Right now I was thinking of going Summoning but maybe a blaster is more what I'm looking for? I still want to be effective but so far what I have doesn't seem so great so maybe y'all could toss a few suggestions this way.
(1)Scribe Scroll
(1)Keen Scent
(3)Weapon Focus (Falchion)
(5)Intimidating Prowess
(5B)Fast Study (AD)
(7)Dazzling Display
(9)Spell Focus
(10B)Quicken Spell (MM)
(11)Augment Summoning
(13)Shatter Defenses
(15)Defensive Combat Training
(15B)True Name (AD)
(17)Toughness
(19)Death From Above
(20B)Immortality (AD)
| Treantmonk |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Bigby's giant foot!
Seriously, I notice your build doesn't have Improved Initiative or Improved Familiar. These are two feats that are really good for any wizard.
As for spells, you should balance your selections. Have some summoning, battlefield control and debuff, then fill the holes with blasts. Then you can tailor your spell use to the situation at hand.
Here's a link to my guide that might be of assistance:
| Rory |
I have an idea for a Half-Orc Wizard who can do his race proud and keep his own in a fight. A real kick-in-the-door adventurer type that would be fun to play. Right now I was thinking of going Summoning but maybe a blaster is more what I'm looking for?
I'm going to assume you mean to be physical in the butt-kickin' portion. It is a little unusual for a wizard to get into the physical butt-kickin' arena, so I dumped Wisdom for flavor.
(note: this isn't the best melee damage, as that is the realm of warrior purist, but it is still quite decent at butt-kickin')
S: 17 D: 14: C: 14 I: 15 W: 7 Ch: 10 (20 pt buy)
Half-Orc Wizard Transmuter (w/Arcane Bond: Falchion, anti-Div, anti-Enchant)
(W) Scribe Scroll
(1) Toughness (you need all the hitpoints you can get)
(3) Weapon Focus (Falchion) <-- or Great Axe
(5) Power Attack
(W) Extend Spell
(7) Furious Focus
(9) Quicken Spell
At 1st level, you'll have 12 hitpoints, +4 to hit, and will do 2d4+6 damage (18 strength with Transmutation +1). Use spells for defense as your offense is pretty high. Enlarge Person makes a great offense spell (get a wand of it when you can).
At 3rd level, you'll be +6 to hit and will still be doing 2d4+6 damage, not that bad. Use spells for defense (False Life saves on action economy, which will be important), but you can pop a Bull's Strength for a really nice melee boost.
At 5th level, you'll be +8 to hit and 2d4+11 damage (20 str = +1 strength @ 4th and now +2 strength as transmuter, and you can enchant your arcane bond to +1, and power attack). Spells should be highly defensive (False Life for more hitpoints, Mirror Image for melee impunity, etc.) and can now start casting Haste as well. Keen Edge is fun!
At 7th level, you'll be +11 to hit and 2d4+12 damage (arcane bond is at +2, power attack w/ furious focus). Stoneskin is a good defense spell, and Greater Invis is good offense and defense.
At 9th level, you'll be +13 to hit and 2d6+18 damage (+3 arcane bond and 22 str, w/ power attack). You now hit the point of Quickened spell boosts. Quickened Enlarge Person is nice.
The build is fairly butt kickin' from levels 1-5 but starts to fall after that against single targets. You can keep up for a few more levels if you have rounds of combat prep using spells.
In the 6-8 range, your 1 melee attack wanes against the 2 of the warriors (haste helps!), but you probably have the best damage against more than one foe via area spells. Beast form may be a method to add multiple attacks, but your combat buff options will eat into your action economy. This is probably the hardest level range.
In the 9-10 range, you start to quicken add buffs to maintain relative parity. Your options outside of the melee attack grow nicely.
At level 11+, Transformation with Quicken buff spells ahead of time is pretty nice. It does require a combat action to get it cast, but it goes far to bring you up to par in the butt-kickin' scale. Combine that with the alternative ability to drop some nice spells for control and area damage and you come to the fight bearing multiple boots to kick-butt.
| Scion of the Wolf |
Very interesting thoughts there and I've come up an altered build using Rory and Treantmonk's suggestions. Also, to clear things up, yes I want him to physically kick butt, be a solid caster and be fun to play.
I've decided to go with a familiar because that seems more fun to me (especially if an improved one can talk). Also, having the Scent ability seems fun and only Half-Orcs can do it so I'd like to take advantage.
S: 16 D: 16: C: 16 I: 25 W: 14 Ch: 14 (random rolls)
Half-Orc Wizard Transmuter (w/Arcane Bond: Familiar, anti-Div, anti-Enchant)
(1) Scribe Scroll
(1) Keen Scent
(3) Toughness
(5) Weapon Focus (Falchion)
(5B) Extend Spell (MM)
(7) Power Attack
(9) Furious Focus
(10B) Quicken Spell (MM)
(11) Improved Familiar
(13) Defensive Combat Training
(15) Improved Initiative
(15B) Spell Penetration
(17) Combat Casting
(19) Greater Spell Penetration
(20B) Immortality (AD)
Some of the later feats would be nice to squeeze in earlier but I don't see how. Also, what's the opinion on the Enhancement and Shapechance sub-schools? I'm kind of liking Enhancement...
| Phasics |
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Monstrous Physique or any of the polymorph spells, it offers multiple buffs in a single spell.
If you go for forms with natural attacks your effectively get around the lack of iterative attacks
A very thematic polymorph would be using monstrous physique I to turn from half-orc into a full Orc.
Honestly the only major thing you need to overcome late game is the 1/2BAB with transformation and the low HP with DR and or resistances.
Also Contingency is a great for firing off a spell after you've used transformation and lose you spell casting.
| Scion of the Wolf |
@ratlord: Spell Perfection is a nice feat but the 3 metamagic feat requirement is a bit high for my liking and I'm not sure where to squeeze that 3rd one in prior to 15th level anyway.
@Phasics: These spells sound very useful for being able to kick butt. Both of those spells will be in my spellbook come time.
Speaking of spells I haven't gone over the lists yet so any suggestions are welcome. You've all been a big help in getting this build focused so I want to thank you while I have the chance!
I'm still curious if anyone has tried the Enhancement or Shapechange subschools. I can see both being useful for this particular build since Telekinetic Fist seems very much of low-level use.
ProfPotts
|
I'm still curious if anyone has tried the Enhancement or Shapechange subschools. I can see both being useful for this particular build since Telekinetic Fist seems very much of low-level use.
The Enhancement sub-school is probably what you want. The Battleshaping of the Shapechange sub-school really doesn't compete with just using the right spells, since you can't even get two natural weapons out of it until level 11, and that's your limit. The Augment power of the Enhancement school, on the other hand, is pretty much universally useful - for both you and the rest of your party (at the very least it's a quick +1 to pretty much any d20 roll anyone has to make, because you can apply that +2 bonus to any of the Ability Scores). The biggest limit is that it's an enhancement bonus, so not stackable with other such bonuses, but even at high level most characters aren't going to have pre-existing bonuses in all their Ability Scores, and even if they do you can always go for the (stackable) Natural Armour bonus instead.
| Sylvanite |
Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/Eldritch Knight 10
or as someone already suggested: Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10
They're not full wizards, but they are pretty darn good casters who can absolutely get in there and kick butt. Generally, builds like the ones above use magic to buff themselves, then go in toe to toe and mix it up. It may not be what you're looking for exactly, but since I didn't see it suggested yet I thought I'd throw the option out there.
| Scion of the Wolf |
Just to clarify, I can only use Core, APG, UM and UC for character building, so no splats for me.
@karlbadmanners: Dragon Disciple does look like a really badass prestige class but I really have to think hard about switching over from Wizard to Sorcerer.
@ProffPotts: Agreed, if I stay Wizard Enhancement is it for me!
@Sylvanite: Eldritch Knight certainly allows for getting up into the action but seems ho-hum and has nothing to mitigate spell failure from armor. Perhaps some form of bonus feat? This is prestige class is certainly a strong option though...much to think on.
ProfPotts
|
The Magus + Eldritch Knight is a horrible combo IMHO. For me the main Class Features of the ElK are full BAB progression on the one hand, and adding (near) full levels of spellcasting progression on the other. If you're adding to anything less than a full caster base progression with those extra spellcasting levels, then you're really shortchanging your character. Again, just IMHO.
ElK's are pretty darn good, but their Class Features are all locked up in 'the basics' - meaning they lack the flashy bits of other classes.
As Sylvanite suggests Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/Eldritch Knight 10 is really the go-to combination here. If you're allowed traits, then taking the Magical Knack Trait (APG page 329) means you end up with full caster level, which helps a lot.
Arcane Armour Training and Arcane Armour Mastery Feats means you can swan about in a Mithral breastplate no problems. Sure, those Feats eat your swift action on turns you activate them - but you're only going to be doing that on rounds you're casting (instead of fighting with weapons) anyway... after all, you don't play an ElK like a Magus (and vice-versa). In any case, you're not going to end up with less armour than a vanilla Wizard.
If you're worried about the ElK capstone Class Feature, then just have a few spells prepared which don't use gestures: on rounds when you're fighting with weapons, you won't be using your swift action to activate your AAT / AAM Feats, so you can happily use your swift action to activate Spell Critical, when it crops up, chosing to use a spell without gestures (and therefore no arcane spell failure).
Make sure you take a bonded object for your arcane bond if you're going ElK, since a Familiar doesn't scale with your levels in the prestige class.
Oh, and remember that the Diverse Training Class Feature is doubly nice now that there are Wizard-specific Feats as well as Fighter-specific Feats.
| Sylvanite |
@Sylvanite: Eldritch Knight certainly allows for getting up into the action but seems ho-hum and has nothing to mitigate spell failure from armor. Perhaps some form of bonus feat? This is prestige class is certainly a strong option though...much to think on.
Eldritch Knight LOOKS ho-hum because it doesn't get a lot of crazy random abilities. What it does get is full BAB, Fighter HD, almost full casting, and three bonus feats (also the ability to grab some of the fighter only feats if you want them). The spells you can cast ARE your abilities (think of it as getting Flight, darkvision, the ability to teleport around the world, a way to magically enhance your weapon, etc. as your non ho-hum class abilities).
The Spell Failure issue is a valid one. However, that issue is somewhat mitigated by the fact that, normally, you're not going to cast much IN combat. You'll be spending combat doing physical butt-kicking instead of casting. That said, you can use arcane armor mastery feats and mithril armor. If you're casting then you're probably not attacking, so losing the swift action (which if you were attacking you'd want for Arcane Strike presumably) isn't a huge deal. ASF from armor only comes into play way later in the game with the EK's capstone and when you start wanting to cast quickened spells. It's certainly an issue at that later point, but you can still do lots of other stuff.
Regardless of what route you go, don't forget about spell storing weapons. They are particularly fun to open with in combat.
Edit: Mostly ninja'd by ProfPotts!
| Cartigan |
Fighter 1/Transmuter 5/Eldritch Knight 10
or as someone already suggested: Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/Dragon Disciple 4/Eldritch Knight 10
They're not full wizards, but they are pretty darn good casters who can absolutely get in there and kick butt. Generally, builds like the ones above use magic to buff themselves, then go in toe to toe and mix it up. It may not be what you're looking for exactly, but since I didn't see it suggested yet I thought I'd throw the option out there.
I don't understand why you would suddenly drop the rest of Dragon Disciple for Eldritch Knight. I mean Spell Critical is cool and all but it is exceedingly situational and you are losing out on extra armor, extra hit points, and the ability to turn into a dragon as a spell like ability, in addition to other draconic perks in exchange for losing a spell level and access to the very small handful of Fighter only feats you can get for being less than level 10 Fighter.
Eldritch Knight LOOKS ho-hum because it doesn't get a lot of crazy random abilities. What it does get is full BAB, Fighter HD, almost full casting, and three bonus feats (also the ability to grab some of the fighter only feats if you want them). The spells you can cast ARE your abilities (think of it as getting Flight, darkvision, the ability to teleport around the world, a way to magically enhance your weapon, etc. as your non ho-hum class abilities).
As opposed to the Dragon Disciple that DOES get flashy bits, a full casting progression, and d12 hit die. However, he does only get a 3/4 BAB (which the +4 Str almost makes up for however)
The problem is you are hamstrung by being a Wizard.
ProfPotts
|
Even a Sorcerer 5 / Dragon Disciple 10 drops three caster levels (after which you can go Sorcerer all the way to 20 if you want), compared to the two a Fighter 1 / Wizard 5 / Eldritch Knight 10 drops (after which you can go Wizard all the way to 20 if you want).
A Sorcerer 10 / Dragon Disciple 10 gets a +12 BAB, and casts as a level 17 Sorcerer (8th level spell maximum).
A Fighter 1 / Wizard 9 / Eldritch Knight 10 gets +15 BAB, and casts as a level 18 Wizard (9th level spell maximum).
I'm a big fan of the Dragon Disciple, don't get me wrong, but in the basics of a 'full-caster + melee' contest it lags way behind the ElK.