So, apparently I derailed another thread. Whoops.
** spoiler omitted **
Now to answer your question:
Yes, I'd like them both! No, I wouldn't think less of Paizo for creating them! I might (and honestly, in my heart of hearts, I would) think less of them for not...The monk can be killed
Immortality (Su): At 20th level, a monk of the four winds no longer ages. He remains in his current age category forever. Even if the monk comes to a violent end, he spontaneously reincarnates (as the spell) 24 hours later in a place of his choosing within 20 miles of the place he died. The monk must have visited the place in which he returns back to life at least once. This ability replaces perfect self.If the monk does not die within 20 miles of a place he has visited(I will get to this) he does not get to come back to life.
Note that that the ability says a place of his choosing. That means the monk must actively designate a place to return to. At games of that level there is a good chance of a battle taking place in another plane. You may have to get creative to make sure the monk does not make a designated spot to return to, but it can be done.
The monk can be killed
Immortality (Su): At 20th level, a monk of the four winds no longer ages. He remains in his current age category forever. Even if the monk comes to a violent end, he spontaneously reincarnates (as the spell) 24 hours later in a place of his choosing within 20 miles of the place he died. The monk must have visited the place in which he returns back to life at least once. This ability replaces perfect self.If the monk does not die within 20 miles of a place he has visited(I will get to this) he does not get to come back to life.
Note that that the ability says a place of his choosing. That means the monk must actively designate a place to return to. At games of that level there is a good chance of a battle taking place in another plane. You may have to get creative to make sure the monk does not make a designated spot to return to, but it can be done.
You realize the spot he died is within 20 miles of where he died and he has visited there? It doesn't say he has to designate the spot before he dies, just that the character gets to choose.
Of course, if you get him to teleport to a location and continue to kill him in the same spot where he comes back, that would be a lot like death.
It can if he chooses that place, but if that is enemy HQ they might kill you on the spot before you get to make a choosing when you come back to life. I am just saying the ability is not infallible. :)Why does the place he died not count as a place he has visited?
If the monk does not die within 20 miles of a place he has visited(I will get to this) he does not get to come back to life.Note that that the ability says a place of his choosing. That means the monk must actively designate a place to return to. At games of that level there is a good chance of a battle taking place in another plane. You may have to get creative to make sure the monk does not make a designated spot to return to, but it can be done.
Only if he entered the HQ by teleportation from more than 20 miles away. If he scaled the walls or tunneled in or anything, he can respawn outside.
It can if he chooses that place, but if that is enemy HQ they might kill you on the spot before you get to make a choosing when you come back to life. I am just saying the ability is not infallible. :)
Strip him of Fire Resistance. Teleport him into a 40 mile diameter sphere of lava. He can come back there as often as he wants. Soon enough he'll be regretting being immortal.The monk can be killed
Immortality (Su): At 20th level, a monk of the four winds no longer ages. He remains in his current age category forever. Even if the monk comes to a violent end, he spontaneously reincarnates (as the spell) 24 hours later in a place of his choosing within 20 miles of the place he died. The monk must have visited the place in which he returns back to life at least once. This ability replaces perfect self.If the monk does not die within 20 miles of a place he has visited(I will get to this) he does not get to come back to life.
Note that that the ability says a place of his choosing. That means the monk must actively designate a place to return to. At games of that level there is a good chance of a battle taking place in another plane. You may have to get creative to make sure the monk does not make a designated spot to return to, but it can be done.
You realize the spot he died is within 20 miles of where he died and he has visited there? It doesn't say he has to designate the spot before he dies, just that the character gets to choose.
Of course, if you get him to teleport to a location and continue to kill him in the same spot where he comes back, that would be a lot like death.
Here's my most recent response to the question:
He'd get out eventually, flailing in the air / swimming while taking 20d6 per turn will be good for moving a couple hundred feet each day. And he can always hope one of his friends will rescue him from any plane you toss him on, or he can eventually make a deal with some being on that plane.
Not if he fills all contiguous spaces within that plane, including the spaces that he's already died in. Eventually what happens? By RAW, there's no answer. By physics, there's black holes.
In the volcano, sure it's possible. But it's still hellish and likely to make him regret it all and just wish it would end.
And it might be possible in the demi-plane (remember: finite and with no personal means of escape), too (depending, of course, on whether or not singularities exist, and even then, depending on their interaction and magic and living creatures). I could just see him, existing for millennia, with tiny, nearly-imperceptible moments of teaching himself magic, until, at last, he masters planeshift enough to drop himself back into reality as some kind of epic monster through so many random reincarnations that 100 has to come up at some point or another.
Alternatively, place him in an antimagic field before he dies, as it's a supernatural ability. Court's out on whether it kicks back in as soon as the AM field drops, though.
EDITED: deleted a half-sentence I seriously don't know how I was going to finish.
And it might be possible in the demi-plane (remember: finite and with no personal means of escape), too (depending, of course, on whether or not singularities exist, and even then, depending on their interaction and magic and living creatures). I could just see him, existing for millennia, with tiny, nearly-imperceptible moments of teaching himself magic, until, at last, he masters planeshift enough to drop himself back into reality as some kind of epic monster through so many random reincarnations that 100 has to come up at some point or another.
I vote for him returning as an evilly intelligent spacecraft hovering near the rings of Saturn waiting ... just waiting ...
In any event, it's a cool ability. And as GM I'd sure have fun with that reincarnate once out of every 100 times ...
Intelligent rock suicides by refusing to breath, or d dooring himself into things till he's crushed.
Does he keep startuses? Because if he raised after death by negative levels, he's still dead.
Actually the Abundant Step ability means that he has even more leeway to get out of stuff than I had originally been thinking. Wow. He really is hard to kill! So the related question, does one have to take Slow Time, or can one keep Abundant Step? Actually, quick check, yes, they must. That makes it more along the lines of "containable". Still, the ability to spend ki points to take up to three additional move actions in a round is significant (as Slow Time allows, among other things), if they're in a situation where they can't run or charge (such as the lava example).
Tangent: aspect of the monkey, owl, and tiger are the best, and probably the owl of those three, as there is no way to "lose" those aspects - they are defined as being able to be held by any alignment (whereas the others require something specific).
Related: does the visual Aspect come with their new incarnation? As in, do they still, visually, match their Aspect, even in their reincarnated body? (I should think "yes".)
Related to the Related: when there's no "GM" overseeing the game, what happens when a creature "rolls up" the "100" entry? In other words, reincarnation is used by creatures who aren't under any GM's control, per se, and I'm curious about the implications of this in a living world. They certainly don't see the hand of any all-powerful GM running their (and the deities') lives and actions, much less such a minor spell effect.
Off-Topic (in my own thread!): Aroden needed to be this.
To the keepers of the THREAD: You know, I should totally have made this in General, since it's only partially about the Rule anyway, so it might need to be moved.
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A normal person? Maybe. But we're talking a monk, probably with the wisdom of Buddha himself (30 or so). He can take his deaths in stride and wait for the fates to make him survivable, given his environment. I forgot his aspects let him fly or turn gaseous; this gives him just as many escape routes (more if you do something as simple as lava... he's able to take the 20d6, then leave the lava).
So as long as he's on the material plane, he should be able to survive any situation he's thrown in. On Demi-planes etc he is at the mercy of trying to find someone willing to transport him back, but he does have all the time in the world.
I'm just curious how, by level 20, outside of some bizarre magical chicanery, he has a 30 wisdom score.
SUPER-FAST EDIT:
Nevermind, I just answered my own question:
Start with 18
+2 for racial (dwarf, half elf, half orc, or human) OR more if you're a monster race of some sort
+5 for level-ups
+5 via wish
+2 for being a natural lycanthrope (you are a natural lycanthrope, aren't you?)
So that's 32 right there. For additional greatness...
+6 Headband of Mental Superiority (or equivalent) OR (if that would get destroyed) +4 Permanent Owl's Wisdom (via Wish shenanigans)
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I'm just curious how, by level 20, outside of some bizarre magical chicanery, he has a 30 wisdom score.
Well if you start at 20, get a +5 tome and place all your ability points from leveling into wisdom...
Otherwise you'll need your +6 wisdom item, which wouldn't be there since it's on the body you lost.
I'm just curious how, by level 20, outside of some bizarre magical chicanery, he has a 30 wisdom score.Well if you start at 20, get a +5 tome and place all your ability points from leveling into wisdom...
Otherwise you'll need your +6 wisdom item, which wouldn't be there since it's on the body you lost.
{said in DarthHelmut voice}
"Haah-Haah, fooooooooooooo'd yuuuuuuuu!"(by which, of course, I mean I ninja'd you! ;P :D)