Spell Storing and Thrown Weapons

[Ellessen]

I know that the Spell Storing Enchant is a melee weapon enchant but how does it interact with thrown weapons such as a dagger that are melee weapons as well?

The trigger of the enchantment says nothing about you having to be in contact with the weapon and only says that said weapon must deal damage to the target with the attack. Therefore I would think that if you had some way of dealing damage ranged with the weapon such as throwing it or the Universalist Wizard's "Hand of the Apprentice" ability you could trigger a spell assuming the spell is legal to put in the weapon. Is that the agreed upon interpretation?

[David Thomassen]

Spell Storing:

: A spell storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. (The spell must have a casting time of 1 standard action.) Anytime the weapon strikes a creature and the creature takes damage from it, the weapon can immediately cast the spell on that creature as a free action if the wielder desires. (This special ability is an exception to the general rule that casting a spell from an item takes at least as long as casting that spell normally.) Once the spell has been cast from the weapon, a spellcaster can cast any other targeted spell of up to 3rd level into it. The weapon magically imparts to the wielder the name of the spell currently stored within it. A randomly rolled spell storing weapon has a 50% chance to have a spell stored in it already.

Strong evocation (plus aura of stored spell); CL 12th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Price +1 bonus.

"...if the wielder desires." You are not in contact with the weapon to pass on that desire - It may work for an Intelegent Item able to communicate with Empathy or Telepathy - see your GM.

[Ellessen]

David Thomassen wrote:

** spoiler omitted ** "...if the wielder desires." You are not in contact with the weapon to pass on that desire - It may work for an Intelegent Item able to communicate with Empathy or Telepathy - see your GM.

Once again it does not say you have to be in contact to confirm the trigger. The trigger is if you deal damage you can cast the spell stored.

The issue is how thrown weapons interact with enchants. I have always assumed that they can take both as a dagger is undeniably a melee weapon and can receive enchants like keen and vorpal, but it also can take things like returning that are on the ranged weapon list. For most enchants they are either always working like keen or distance, on both lists like the elemental enchants, or situational like spell storing. The situational ones all specifically dictate their function and triggers.

Returning for instance is a ranged weapon enchant that states that it must go on a thrown weapon and when an attack is made by throwing this weapon it will return before the start of the next turn.

Spell storing is also specific in that it requires the weapon to deal damage. As said above it says nothing about needing to be in contact to utilize this ability. I was wondering what peoples interpretation of this is.

By stating that you must be in contact because it is on the melee list means that enchants like vorpal or keen shut off if thrown which makes no sense to me.

[Maezer]

Ellessen wrote:

Once again it does not say you have to be in contact to confirm the trigger. The trigger is if you deal damage you can cast the spell stored.

No when the spell storing weapon deals damage, the wielder may as a free action discharge the spell. Since you are not wielding the weapon when it deals damage, you cannot spend the free action to discharge the spell.

Sorry. No throwing a half dozen daggers to get a half dozen does fireballs to discharge for a single full round action.

If Keen or Vorpal required the wielder to spend a free action to activate, they would not work when thrown either.

[Ellessen]

Maezer wrote:

Ellessen wrote:

Once again it does not say you have to be in contact to confirm the trigger. The trigger is if you deal damage you can cast the spell stored.

No when the spell storing weapon deals damage, the wielder may as a free action discharge the spell. Since you are not wielding the weapon when it deals damage, you cannot spend the free action to discharge the spell.

Sorry. No throwing a half dozen daggers to get a half dozen does fireballs to discharge for a single full round action.

If Keen or Vorpal required the wielder to spend a free action to activate, they would not work when thrown either.

Ok I can see that. The feats and class abilities for fighters and such do not use the word "Wield" in pathfinder. The word wield means to hold or use a weapon or tool which would include throwing as that is how you use thrown weapons. I will concede that it is primarily used to indicate that you are holding a weapon and doing so in a threatening manner and therefore can be interpreted to dictate that you must be in contact to trigger the spell.

I have heard this explained as a fear of the thrown weapon but more and more people phrase their views on it as a fear of multiple spells being used. The spells used must be able to target a single creature and therefore the powerful AOE spells that you fear like fireball cannot be used anyway. AS for the others I can see the issue but you have that just the same with a dual wielder and quickdraw if your limitation is wield. A more appropriate limitation to me would be to house rule that you can only trip that ability on one weapon per turn, and the ranged aspect is not any more powerful.

I asked this question because I was trying to find a purpose for the school granted ability of the Universalist Wizard and was finding that they would only ever use it if they were completely out of all spells and for some reason the mob was immune to their cantrip ray of frost or they walk around with a large melee weapon for some reason rather than the standard dagger. Allowing this enchant to work on thrown as I still insist the language allows would validate a class ability with little negative as the enchant greatly limits what spells can be stored.