Fighter classes, except the cavalier and paladin, have no way to make sure monsters/npcs attack them. a fighter taunt mechanic needs to be created to make sure fighters can do their job. it could be something as simple as intimidate vs will save to make them have to target the fighter instead of the squishier targets. any thoughts?
Isn't that almost exactly what the Antagonize feat does? It's a Diplomacy/Intimidate check with a DC equal to the target's Hit Dice + the target's Wisdom modifier. Not too hard to make it if you're already investing a lot of ranks into either of those two skills.
When you use Intimidate: "The creature flies into a rage. On its next turn the target must attempt to make a melee attack against you. The effect ends if the creature is prevented from reaching you or attempting to do so would harm it (for example, if you are on the other side of a chasm or a wall of fire). If it cannot reach you on its turn, you may make the check again as an immediate action to extend the effect for 1 round (but cannot extend it thereafter). The effect ends as soon as the creature makes a melee attack against you. Once you have targeted a creature with this ability, you cannot target it again for 1 day."
i must say, when i read a book i don't really read it, i skim. after looking at that feat, it kinda sucks. it lasts for 1 round and you can only target a critter with a 3 int or higher and once every 24 hours.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
i must say, when i read a book i don't really read it, i skim. after looking at that feat, it kinda sucks. it lasts for 1 round and you can only target a critter with a 3 int or higher and once every 24 hours.
I *knew* there will come a day when somebody will say that Antagonize is weak. :)
I *knew* there will come a day when somebody will say that Antagonize is weak. :)
compared to the challenge ability or some of the paladin spell it is.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'm not convinced that a taunt mechanic is needed. The creatures should be roleplayed as if they want to survive; as if they feel pain; according to their mental stats. I don't care who you are, if you get struck for half or more of your hit points in a single round by a single opponent, you should react accordingly.
I'm not convinced that a taunt mechanic is needed. The creatures should be roleplayed as if they want to survive; as if they feel pain; according to their mental stats. I don't care who you are, if you get struck for half or more of your hit points in a single round by a single opponent, you should react accordingly.
i understand, with that being said when a mage type nukes mobs they should run from him then correct?
had a game i was playing a wiz who got killed by a demon after a detonate surprise round then a first round feeblemind. being the farthest from the demon i still don't understand why he would not go after the closer more immediate threat. i was taken down to -119 from 1 round of him and his 2 vrock buddies.
|
I'm not convinced that a taunt mechanic is needed. The creatures should be roleplayed as if they want to survive; as if they feel pain; according to their mental stats. I don't care who you are, if you get struck for half or more of your hit points in a single round by a single opponent, you should react accordingly.i understand, with that being said when a mage type nukes mobs they should run from him then correct?
had a game i was playing a wiz who got killed by a demon after a detonate surprise round then a first round feeblemind. being the farthest from the demon i still don't understand why he would not go after the closer more immediate threat. i was taken down to -119 from 1 round of him and his 2 vrock buddies.
I don't think a taunt is needed either. When PCs are playing, the common tactic is to 'target the caster first'. I don't see why the enemy should be so stupid as to not act in the same manner. Proper use of defensive spells and tactics, and by making yourself an offensive threat are both excellent ways of getting the enemy to focus where you want it to.
My other taunt mechanic is a Stalwart Defender with halting blow and a guisarme.
I'm not convinced that a taunt mechanic is needed. The creatures should be roleplayed as if they want to survive; as if they feel pain; according to their mental stats. I don't care who you are, if you get struck for half or more of your hit points in a single round by a single opponent, you should react accordingly.i understand, with that being said when a mage type nukes mobs they should run from him then correct?
had a game i was playing a wiz who got killed by a demon after a detonate surprise round then a first round feeblemind. being the farthest from the demon i still don't understand why he would not go after the closer more immediate threat. i was taken down to -119 from 1 round of him and his 2 vrock buddies.
When the mages starts nuking or if he is known for nuking, then sure the enemy should take that into account. What I have an issue with, and you haven't proposed this so keep in mind this isn't directed at you, is the people who think that oozes, plants, animals, elves, zombies, dragons, devils, and golems all can automatically tell who the most dangerous character is just by looking. No clues other than the GM metagaming.
Your character was taken out in the surprise round. A taunt mechanic wouldn't change that. The GM in this case didn't play the vrocks well in my opinion. The mage was incapacitated and they should have turned their attention to the next targets. I don't know the whole scenario but from what I can see so far the vrocks may not have been played well.
This is all my opinion and I don't mean to disparage your GM. We all have our own style. Mine is to not treat the enemy as if they are from a video game.
I agree until you hit Dragons and Devils. Some of these are very old and very smart. And if you live long enough you start learning that when you deal with a group of people who are coming after you the guy in no armor is 99% of the time a caster. Thats something that can be figured out by looking.
Heck even other humanoids could to a degree make these assumptions.
The moment you add 'Taunt' as a mechanic, an enterprising wizard WILL become absolutely invulnerable simply by summoning minions with the feat and keeping the enemy distracted all day. A terrible idea, in my opinion, from a mechanical viewpoint.
There's a common joke on World of Warcraft about a raid boss sending his underlings a note saying, "I'm sorry to hear about your loss yet again to a group of adventurers. Has anyone tried targeting the guys in dresses with the glowing hands in the back yet?" Magic, whether low or high, is not a force that intelligent beings look at and think 'Nah...not dangerous.' A well-trained (read: feated) martial character is exercising incredible mortal threat to draw a creature's attention from virtually -anything- for that round, and a well-placed strike may well continue to hold that monster's attention (as now the martial character has introduced himself as 'just as much a threat').
This is all my opinion and I don't mean to disparage your GM. We all have our own style. Mine is to not treat the enemy as if they are from a video game.
he treats every mob as if they are a PC. an example of this is he wanted to see if a level 5 fighter could take on a drider. so i rolled up a character and got ready. the drider was hiding on the ceiling and as soon as i walked in got a lightning bolt. so i waled out, no need to fight something i can't reach because my understanding was; this was going to be a toe-to-toe fight.
this particular gm likes to raise the CR of fights higher than they should. his philosophy is 'if i dont kill players i'm not doing my job.' it's an unfortunate mindset to have, but hey he gms every other week.
i must say, when i read a book i don't really read it, i skim. after looking at that feat, it kinda sucks. it lasts for 1 round and you can only target a critter with a 3 int or higher and once every 24 hours.
"Hello there, 20th level Mr. Enemy Wizard! Stop casting spells and spend the next round charging me with your dagger! You don't get any save to resist!"
Oh, hey, did you have an 11th-level wizard in your party, holding an action to cast Antimagic Field? You did? Hey, you just turned a 20th-level wizard into a commoner, without giving him any chance to save, with one feat, ranks in Intimidate, and one 6th-level spell.
.
..
...
....
.....
The intelligent choice for the melee optimised character is to engage the enemy in melee.*
The intelligent choice for the Drider with powerful ranged attacks is to ambush and maintain range.
One intelligent choice seemingly surpassed the other...
INTELLIGENCE IS NOT BALANCED!
::
::
*As circumstance dictates.
OT:If you want a taunt mechanic, talk the group about creating one. There are many examples for you to draw inspiration from.
If the group cannot accept/decide on a taunt mechanic, then your group does not want a taunt mechanic/cannot decide on a taunt mechanic.