I’m looking for some character ideas to build a partial melee or utility sorcerer. By this I mean that I’m looking for a build that can do other things than just cast spells. Occasionally I might like to be on the front line with a weapon and shield or fulfilling some other role that’s useful to the party. Though I like the idea of primarily being a spellcaster there are always those instances where arcane magic is not always the best option. I want to take advantage of those situations as rare as they may be.
The character concept I’m looking into playing is the bastard son between a dragon and some other race, likely human. I’m looking into the idea of playing as the son of Mengkare the gold dragon of Promise but I’m open to other dragons or types of dragon as well. Though in saying that, I usually sway to the side of good. I’m also open to non-dragon concepts.
The reason I want to play a Sorcerer is because I’m not fond of preparing my spells in advance. I have played a few Wizards in the past and this has always gone poorly for me. I have looked in to Witch but I like the spell selection for Sorcerer/Wizard better. The healing capabilities of the Witch are extremely tempting though. And again, I’m still open to concepts for these classes and others if you have a good idea. As for bloodline I was thinking Sage. I like the additional skill points from being an INT based caster. Most any bloodline would work though. I have also been looking into the Crossblooded archetype. I’m willing to lose at most 2 levels in my spellcasting so I can still get 9th level spells.
Prestige classes are also a thing of question. I’m strongly considering moving into Eldritch Knight for the Melee bonus. Dragon Disciple also looks tempting but not as much so. I know that neither of these PrC’s are very well received but they look so incredibly tempting to me none the less. I’m also wondering if it’s possible to have at least some melee/utility ability progressing as a straight sorcerer?
Race options are wide open but I like the idea of playing an Ifrit. It needs to be a playable class though that has no level adjustment. It’s a 15 point build and the books I have available are The Core Rule Book, Advanced Players Guide, Bestiary 1 &2, The Inner Sea World Guide, Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat.
Suggestions for feats would be a big help since I have so many to choose from.
Thank you in advance for your suggestions
How about a 1 level dip into fighter (or any class with Light Armour prof, Bard could work well if you like Bard) for the armour proficiency, and the feat Arcane Armour Training. Wear Leather armour, take Weapon Finnesse with a rapier, and with a bow and you will look like a rogue.
Abilities: Cha, Dex, Con in that order. Maybe even just Cha and Dex, dump everything else?
Feats on odd levels can go towards combat.
Spend your gold on AC and scrolls, or AC and weapons, depending on wether you end up casting spells or roll attack rolls more.
How about a 1 level dip into fighter (or any class with Light Armour prof, Bard could work well if you like Bard) for the armour proficiency, and the feat Arcane Armour Training. Wear Leather armour, take Weapon Finnesse with a rapier, and with a bow and you will look like a rogue.
Unless you will be multi-classing for more than just the armor proficiency I would suggest using a Haramaki or Silken Ceremonial Armor and save a lv and a feat (not to mention your swift actions).
Having played an EK (albeit a wizard one), I can't recommend bull's strength enough for surviving the early levels. Add in arcane strike and you can be a reasonably solid combatant even if most of your levels are 1/2 BAB. Once you get some magic items, you can trade out bull's strength for something else.
How about a 1 level dip into fighter (or any class with Light Armour prof, Bard could work well if you like Bard) for the armour proficiency, and the feat Arcane Armour Training.
I have been debating this. I Like the idea of dipping into fighter for the Weapon & Armour Proficiencies. Where should one go from here though? Would straight Sorcerer be enough for what I'd like to do or should I still consider moving into a Prestige Class?
Having played an EK (albeit a wizard one), I can't recommend bull's strength enough for surviving the early levels. Add in arcane strike and you can be a reasonably solid combatant even if most of your levels are 1/2 BAB. Once you get some magic items, you can trade out bull's strength for something else.
How did you like EK. This is the rout I was originally planning but everybody on these forums seems to bash it. Since I'm more interested in flavor than minmaxing its still a top choice on my list.
Verdant sorcerer gives tanglevine. It provides trip/disarm/steal. If you wish to improve on combat maneuvers add feats accordingly.
I must have overlooked this when I was looking at Bloodlines. The Bloodline Arcana looks very good also. I saw that Linnorm had the same ability and liked it but tanglevine in a much nicer Bloodline Power.
Thank you all for the suggestions so far. I still want to flesh this out a little more so keep it coming.
I have been debating this. I Like the idea of dipping into fighter for the Weapon & Armour Proficiencies. Where should one go from here though? Would straight Sorcerer be enough for what I'd like to do or should I still consider moving into a Prestige Class?
Wait till you see how the character fits within the party and the campaign. You may take a few more levels of Sor then all fighter to become a self-buffing monster, or you may become an arcanist who can also kick your teeth in.
How did you like EK. This is the rout I was originally planning but everybody on these forums seems to bash it. Since I'm more interested in flavor than minmaxing its still a top choice on my list.
You don't need to call it minmaxing, seriously. Go read any number of threads about this. Being effective and roleplaying are not enemies.
or you may become an arcanist who can also kick your teeth in.
This description is exactly what I'm trying to go for.
Magic --> When Magic Fails --> Fighting
Why not an Aberrant sorcerer who focuses on transmutation and touch spells? You can stand at range and use your reach to deliver Shocking Grasps to enemies with Aberrant, but turn yourself into an bear or some such when melee is the thing to do, and get a good duration out of it to boot.
You could take the wild-blooded celestial bloodline (a.k.a. empyreal bloodline) to make Wis your primary stat, then take a level or two in monk (if you don't want to be lawful, you can take the martial artist archetype for monk). Then take the eldritch heritage feats to get your draconic claws/natural armour/strength boost.
Your AC should easily rival that of fully armoured warriors, and with mirror image/improved invis/displacement, you will be a major pain in the butt to hit - you can concentrate on casting spells until some fool gets close thinking you'll be easy to hit, at which point you smile and unleash a string of touch spells on him. Opening with a vampiric touch is always a good option. Or if your attack bonus is good enough, use multi-charge touch spells like chill touch and/or calcific touch and deliver them via your punches/draconic claws.
If you want to be able to swing a sword instead of using touch spells, a little more investment is in order, and you will want to refer to some of the Eldritch Knight threads on the boards for what spells to choose.
As mentioned before, bull's strength will help you catch up on your to-hit bonus at lower levels, as will heroism and improved invis ('cos they are flat-footed against you).
Battlemind link and vengeful outrage at later levels are good later buffs (vengeful outrage is almost like being in greater rage, only you can cast spells, but you must attack your designated target or cop some serious penalties).
Most important of all, however, PLAN YOUR SPELL SELECTION. This applies especially to your character concept because you're looking to be able to do a diverse number of things with limited spells known. Figure out what spells to use for which levels, when to swap out spells, and maybe even what items to look out for to complement your style.
I'm currently playing a Draconic Sorcerer 3/Fighter 1 (with the Magical Knack trait for when I hit 5th level), and am loving it. I have a greatsword and a lucerne hammer, so I can switch it up by having reach. I also have slashing, piercing, and bludgeoning damage this way. I can also cast Magic Missile, Enlarge Person, or Color Spray if attacking isn't possible.
I have a mithral chain shirt with Arcane Armor Training. Don't let people discourage you from taking that feat. It really just depends on how many swift/immediate action based abilities/items you think you'll have in the long run. For me, I know I won't be using them for much else besides Arcane Armor Training for casting and Arcane Strike for hitting. I'd rather have my spells work in decent armor than save a potential immediate action for who knows what.
I'm going to take the Dragon Disciple prestige class, but I have no input on this yet as I have never been one before. It just fits the flavor of focusing on dragons. I can't see why it would be that horrible if you're already a Draconic Sorcerer, especially if you want to be tougher and in melee combat. I'd just recommend taking some Fighter levels to keep up your bab. My DM isn't a sadist, so I know I won't suffer too much for having a slightly off bab progression.
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Dragon Disciple is one of the few PF prestige classes which doesn't suck, because it improves your sorcerer bloodline abilities. If you want to go into melee, Dragon Disciple is preferable to Eldritch Knight. If you want to concentrate on spellcasting - you shouldn't take a prestige class at all, but EK would be better than DD.
Consider taking the Orc Bloodline for a more destructive sorcerer:
Orc Bloodline
The rage of your ancestors burns within you, and the taint
of savage orc blood flows through your veins. Your anger is
never far from the surface, giving you strength and driving
you to seek greater power.
Class Skill: Survival.
Bonus Spells: burning hands (3rd), bull’s strength (5th),
rage (7th), wall of fire (9th), cloudkill (11th), transformation
(13th), delayed blast fireball (15th), iron body (17th), meteor
swarm (19th).
Bonus Feats: Diehard, Endurance, Great Fortitude,
Intimidating Prowess, Improved Overrun, Power Attack,
Toughness, Widen Spell.
Bloodline Arcana: You gain the orc subtype, including
darkvision 60 feet and light sensitivity. If you already have
darkvision, its range increases to 90 feet. Whenever you
cast a spell that deals damage, that spell deals +1 point of
damage per die rolled.
Bloodline Powers: You are heir to the bestial power of
the great orc warlords of the past. You feel their rage in
your blood, and must take care lest the urge to despoil and
destroy consumes you.
Touch of Rage (Sp): At 1st level, you can touch a creature
as a standard action, giving it a morale bonus on attack
rolls, damage rolls, and Will saving throws equal to 1/2
your sorcerer level (minimum 1) for 1 round. You can use
this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your
Charisma modifier.
Fearless (Ex): At 3rd level, you gain a +4 bonus on saving
throws made against fear and a +1 natural armor bonus. At
9th level, you lose your light sensitivity, gain immunity to
fear, and your natural armor bonus increases to +2.
Strength of the Beast (Ex): At 9th level, you gain a +2
inherent bonus to your Strength. This bonus increases to
+4 at 13th level, and to +6 at 17th level.
Power of Giants (Sp): At 15th level, you may grow to Large
size as a standard action. At this size you gain a +6 size
bonus to Strength, a –2 penalty to Dexterity, a +4 size bonus
to Constitution, and a +4 natural armor bonus. You may
return to your normal size as a standard action. You may
remain in this size for up to 1 minute per character level
per day; this duration does not need to be consecutive, but
it must be used in 1 minute increments.
Warlord Reborn (Su): At 20th level, you become a true orc
warlord of legend. You gain immunity to fire and DR 5/—.
Once per day, you can cast transformation as a spell-like
ability using your sorcerer level as your caster level.
These suggestions are all very good. I'm starting to get some ideas about how I want to progress.
If I could just ask for one more thing. I would still like to see a couple suggestions on how to progress as a straight Sorcerer, maybe with 1 level dip into Fighter or with the Wildblood archetype.
Again thanks for your help.
Personally Id suggest Dragon Disciple, specially if your chosen background is the son of a dragon.
Human Crossblooded Draconic(Gold)/Abyssal / Dragon Disciple
Traits -
Reactionary +2 initiative
Magical Knack +2 spell casting class(compensates for DD losing spell casting lvls.)Bloodline Powers -
1st - Claws
3rd - Draconic Resistances
9th - Strength of the Abyss
15th - Added Summonings
20th - Demonic MightBloodline Feats -
Toughness
Imp Initiative
Quicken Spell
Power AttackOther suggested Feats -
Combat Casting
Craft Rod
Weapon Focus(Reach Weapon) Stand behind the heavier melee adding support with your reach weapon and spells.
Arcane Strike
Furious Focus
Improved Critical
Spell Focus Conjuration
Augment Summoning
--The above suggested feats meant if you want to build up the melee. Id suggest slightly different feats if you wanted to just have some melee ability but focus more on spells.Bonus Spells -
3rd Mage Armor
5th Resist Energy
17th Fly
19th Fear
(The 10 lvls of DD will not give bloodline spells.)What you will have at lvl 20 is the following...
Breath Weapon - 20d6 30 ft cone fire
Wings
Claws
+10 Str
+2 Con
+2 Int
+7 Nat Armor
Fire/Acid/Cold Resistance 10
Electricity/Poison Immunity
Telepathy 60ft
Blindsense 60ft
8th lvl spells cast as a 19th lvl caster.
2/day Form of the Dragon II(You can cast spells in Dragon form)Spell suggestions would revolve around buffing such as Haste and Displacement and battlefield control such as Sleet Storm. Also bring in Summon spells to take advantage of your summoning power. Personally Id probably only use Burning Hands and Fireball as my blasting spells.
*Edit* Actually I think I just typed out something I wouldnt mind playing. Id probably go for green dragon though to change the breath type to acid.
This is what I was going to suggest :-). Strength of the Abyss alone is worth the Crossblooded Archetype for melee characters; it's hard to pass up an ability that gives you a bonus that normally costs hundreds of thousands of gold for free.
These suggestions are all very good. I'm starting to get some ideas about how I want to progress.
If I could just ask for one more thing. I would still like to see a couple suggestions on how to progress as a straight Sorcerer, maybe with 1 level dip into Fighter or with the Wildblood archetype.
Again thanks for your help.
I personally think that Sorcerers get the crappiest end of any stick compared to other classes. There always seems to be a better option, and people just choose it for the flavor and spontaneous casting. Multiclassing with only Fighter, on top of being crossblooded/wildblooded, could work instead of going the Dragon Disciple route. Just make sure you pick the bloodlines with Str/Con bonuses. And being human would help with losing spells known from being crossblooded, since you could choose an extra spell known as a favored class option.