Call it poor planning or what have you, but our team is more or less all casters. We consist of a 4th level Wizard, (myself) Sorcerer, Bard, and... Cleric? (The "cleric" is actually a dragon with 4 racial hit die, no cleric levels yet. I guess you could classify her as a melee-ish character, although she only has 10 strength. She's the size of a cat.)
Our party ran through one test run and... we managed to survive the combat. Although I had cast almost all of my spells. Given, it was an ant swarm, which my spell list wasn't quite prepared for. Not to mention my "backup archer" role was worthless, given it was immune to weapon damage.
So... Perhaps we're doomed to die, but what would you suggest to increase our party's chances of survival? How do we pace ourselves, given we all rely on limited spells/day? Can we use teamwork to overcome our lack of melee characters? Have you ever tried surviving with a party of only casters? Did you make it through alive?
I have ran into this in society play, though one of our casters was a summoner so that covered the melee sufficently. How did you guys make it to level 4?
We started at level 4, so we've yet to really make it through a day of adventuring.
The cleric and bard can be decently melee ready and have good AC's , that should be long enough for the spells to start flying.
Here are some thoughts for you:
Hire some meat shields, a renewable resource.
Get scrolls of Summon Monster [whatever], which can be arcane and divine.
Make NPC allies that tag along on different adventures.
Think about Multiclassing into Martial classes.
Craft Construct?
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Oh ok, is your GM offering any types of tweaking or complete rerolls? You could have a bit more balance with say a Magus, Sorceror, Bard(with a martial sub-type like Dervish Dancer or Arcane Duelist), Cleric. But ok if that is not an option I will list what has gotten me through some really bad PFS group make-ups.
1. Attempt to be as self sufficient as possible, potions ect.
2. Take advantage of any and all craft skills to best of your ability. The Wizard should scribe like mad things he does not want to memorize, but could have specific uses(like alarm ect)
3. Develope some tactics amongst yourselfs, I would suggest some major focus fire when it comes to encounters since you have some damage output.
4. Remember all of your bonuses/enemies negatives. For example a lot of people for get the +1 for higher ground, or that droping to the prone against a bunch of archers is not a bad thing(especially if you have a crossbow)
5. Flank, and summon monsters too flank when you can.
6. You mentioned teamwork, the teamwork feat outflank or some such might be good to agument your martial abilities. +d6 damage when you and ally are flanking. This will take away from your progression though, but if you decide to take a rank in inquisitor might not be so bad.
7. If you can't beat em...RUNNNNNN!!! Or join them, you don't mind the alignment hit for joinging the raiders do you? But ya consider alternatives to fighting, I am sure the bard/sorceror will have some diplomatic/bluff abilities. If not maybe that Dragon the size of a cat can intimidate.
I can't think of anything else, I am sure you have considered some of these things , but the most important thing is to have some sort of plan.
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It's not all-casters, it is the types. Bards are best at pumping melees to uberness. The cleric currently does nothing, leaving the wizard and sorc VS the world. And while they are pretty good at that, they do need people to keep monsters at bay or kill while they are holed up.
Now replace the useless dragon and bard with a summoner and a Druid? A combat-ready party able to take over the world.
The campaign I just started in on Sunday has all caster types.
We are Wizard2/Charlatan2, Summoner3, Druid3, Magus3
We fought 3 great white sharks and a Giant Octopus over 3 combats and the Summoner, by far, kept us alive against the sharks. We let his water elementals do all of the damage while we took turns sucking down cure light wound potions.
The druid cast charm animal on the octopus in the 1st round which is the only reason we survived. CR8 vs 3rd lvl characters - what was our DM thinking? LOL
I think the keys to our survival were:
- Letting someone else do the damage (summoned, charmed, hired thugs)
- Avoiding combat entirely via charm, etc.
- Be prepared with lots of potions and scrolls
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Thalin speaks the truth.
Getting a summoning-focus caster (either the wizard or the sorcerer) will work well with the bard--summoner summons critter, bard buffs critter, everyone goes to tea.
What kind of sorcerer is the sorcerer? I've had some luck with running an "Arcane Wildshaper" using an aberrant sorcerer base.
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Yeah, learn summon monster 1, 2, and summon swarm. Summon swarm especially is nice for your level since the duration is concentration +2, and swarms will be difficult for many opponents at your level to kill. Keep in mind that the swarm will attack the closest living creature, so summon it on top of your enemy, and keep your party members away from it.
Get Longspears. The reach will slow things down in getting to you, and will allow everyone to focus fire on a target.
Summoning will be good, but only if you can ensure that something isn't going to smack you during the full-round action.
You don't need to change your party. i'm in a Pbp that started with 3 gish characters, 2 martial, no healing. You sould be able to manage.
You are going to have to play more cautiously. Specing towards summons will go a long way. As the wizard, you should definitely scribe scrolls. Anything thats not Caster Level dependent makes a great scroll, a scroll of knock, for example, will keep its utility until you need it. Any utility is good too.
Edit: Remember, you have spells to spare, buff like theres no tommorow, else there might not be.
Get some armor on the dragon. Just because they're a quadraped and have scales doesn't mean they don't benefit from scalemail.
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It really just depends on the builds. All caster party's are capable of being absolutely deadly.
I assume characters are already set in stone, so giving build advice doesn't really help, so I'll try to stick to tactical advice.
1) Nets, caltrops, smokesticks and tanglefoot bags: These are excellent ways to control the battlefield without using up valuable spells.
2) Summoning: Make sure the Sorcerer picks up some Summon Monster spells and the Cleric should be memorizing them. Summons can then be inspired by the Bard which will make them more effective in combat.
3) Tactics: You have spells, this means you can often create situations when you can attack your enemy and they can't attack you. Whether through levitate/spider's climb, or invisibility plus summoning, work together on mass defenses that make you harder to attack.
4) Look up to the dragon: Dragon Disciple is a real option for making both the Sorcerer and Bard a viable casting/melee mix. Certainly worth looking into for one of them.
Depending on the Sorcerer's bloodline and the Bard's build, they may be not completely terrible in melee now.
5) Dogs and horses: Pick up some handle animal (you have at least 2 high CHA characters) and some animals. This is a temporary solution, but at level 4, a couple riding dogs inspired by a bard can keep the enemy occupied while you take them out from a distance.
6) Grab a silent image wand for you and the sorcerer. They are dirt cheap (750 for 50 charges), and a silent image can be an effective way to defend the party. Illusion walls are a very effective defensive maneuver. Illusion party fighters can also keep the enemy busy for a bit as well.
7) Improved Familiar: When you get the opportunity (level 7) take Improved Familiar and pick up something with hands (mephit is a good choice - I like the dust mephit). Use it to throw those tanglefoot bags, lay down caltrops, or even give it a silent image wand for repeating number 6.
8) Pre-improved familiar: Familiars are fantastic scouts. Use it and get info about what you are facing ahead, then take your time and plan ahead.
8) Brains over brawn: Don't charge in like you own the place. Your characters are a mix of high mental stats. Roll in a marble, send a silent image ahead, use an unseen servant to open doors and trigger traps, etc. Take your time and be smart. That's what wizards do best!
Good luck! 100% caster party's have their drawbacks, but can also be the most powerful combination in the game.
Lots of great suggestions
Yeah, unless someone dies, the party is what it is.
1) Items: Point taken. I really should do some shopping in the next town. (My #1 concern right now is burning through spells too fast)
2) Summoning: I'll be somewhat of a summoning specialist. I'll be taking Augment Summoning when I reach 5th level, so that should help. Our "Cleric" is 4 levels behind, due to being a dragon with 4 racial hit die, so her summons probably wouldn't be very useful.
3) Tactics: Definitely. Vanish is looking like a handy spell; up to 5 rounds of invisibility should be what you need anyway if you're casting it in battle. A nice way to use your surprise round as a Diviner and you haven't spotted the enemies yet.
4) Dragon Disciple. The Sorcerer did take the Draconic Bloodline; however he is a Kobold. A -4 racial strength penalty hurts him quite a bit. I think his Str is 10. The Bard's Str is 14, so maybe slightly better prospects?
5) Dogs: Sounds like a solid way to introduce some more bodies to the field.
6) Silent Image. This was used somewhat effectively against my group to cause us to leave our caravan more or less unguarded while the remaining bandits attacked them. Our Sorcerer has Silent Image, as do I. We should learn well how potent it can be. (Also our GM is running an Illusionist NPC who will become a PC when I temporarily take over and GM for our group, so huzzah. More illusions)
7) Improved Familiar: I really, really like the extra actions in a turn. However, it is slightly painful to give up my Compsognatus which is granting me a +4 bonus to Initiative. Is it worth taking Improved Familiar if you have to eliminate your Improved Initiative in the process? Probably. Extra actions are powerful. ...but I probably wont. Our GM seems to have a generous sprinkling of NPCs, so we should be able to squeeze in enough actions on our side. (Not to mention he's letting the Sorc take Leadership... *le sigh*)
8) Familiar: Well, I think our Dragon does a fairly good job scouting, being able to fly and rather hardy, so she can fill that role.
9) Brains: Definitely a good idea for our next session; we'll be invading the bandit's lair or whatever. Just charging would be a bad idea indeed.
GM has taken it easy on us so far, I guess letting our characters figure out effective tactics within our group. This time, my wizard was dominating. (although somewhat blasty, which I guess is okay in a group with low offensive output?)
So we start in this huge town with a guild. Long story short, we take on a bounty to guard a caravan.
12 days into our journey, our group was up against 9 1st level bandits, (5 melee, 3 archer, 1 mage) attacking us in two separate groups. While the mage lured us away with a Silent Image, I was suspicious and cast Anticipate Peril and Gravity Bow. The archers got a surprise round, all of them attacking the bard. My forewarned allowed me to also act in the surprise round, so I cast Flaming Sphere. I get a 31 for initiative, so I get to act again. I send in the sphere and it takes out the first archer. Then I fire a shot at another archer, after using Prescience. I successfully hit him for something like 8 damage.
Next turn, 5 melee bandits are attacking the other side of the caravan. Fortunately, they're neatly grouped together in such a way that I can hit them all with Stone Call without hitting anyone else. They all take 8 damage and are in rough terrain. Other wizard casts web, so all but one are caught in it.
Next turn, my flaming sphere moves in to take out yet another archer. I then make a Prescience roll of 12. I decide to fire at the Mage (who made his appearance after dealing 4 damage to me with Magic Missile) Nat 20! I roll to confirm... a 2 on the die. But wait! I use my prescience roll and I confirm it. I hit him for 21 damage and he's down. Sorc makes the web catch fire and all inside die.
Final turn, the two remaining bandits attempt to book it and die in the process (my bow taking out the last one)
All in all, a very easy fight, since it was just a bunch of 1st level nobodies. Still, quite nice for our party, since they came with about 1000gp worth of stuff, including a spellbook with 4 1st level spells I didn't know. (Already had Silent Image)
Right, some stats on Raldus Zaithon:
Elf (Diviner,Foresight)
Str 10 Dex 20 Con 14 Int 24 Wis 12 Cha 8
MW Longbow
+2 Int and +2 Dex wondrous items.