Humm I have not looked over them in some time , but I would most likely make them fighter archetypes. Or at most an alt class.
The fighter has the same saves, and same skill points
It would look something like so.(using PF domains and such)
Holy warriors
A Holy warrior has the fallowing class skills. Craft (Int), Diplomacy
(Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge(nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Aura (Ex)A Holy Warrior of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful deity has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the deity's alignment.
Domain: Like a cleric's deity, an Holy Warrior's deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, and her values. A Holy Warrior can select two domains from among those belonging to her deity. She can select an alignment domain only if her alignment matches that domain. With the GM's approval, an Holy warrior my select an Inquisition In place of a domain.
Each domain grants a number of domain powers, depending on the level of the inquisitor. An Holy warrior does not gain the bonus spells listed for each domain, nor does she gain bonus spell slots. The Holy warrior uses her level as her effective cleric level when determining the power and effect of her domain powers. This replaces the Fighters Bonus feat at level 1
Channel Energy (Su): When a Holy warrior reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to channel energy like a cleric of Half the Holy warriors level. This ability replaces Bravery and the Fighters 4th level feat
Divine Bond (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a Holy Warrior forms a divine bond with her god.
The bond allows the Holy Warrior to enhance her weapon as a standard action by calling upon the aid of a spirit in the service of her God for 1 minute per paladin level. When called, the spirit causes the weapon to shed light as a torch. At 5th level, this spirit grants the weapon a +1 enhancement bonus. For every three levels beyond 5th, the weapon gains another +1 enhancement bonus, to a maximum of +6 at 20th level. These bonuses can be added to the weapon, stacking with existing weapon bonuses to a maximum of +5, or they can be used to add any of the following weapon properties:This needs work Adding these properties consumes an amount of bonus equal to the property's cost (see Table: Melee Weapon Special Abilities). These bonuses are added to any properties the weapon already has, but duplicate abilities do not stack. If the weapon is not magical, at least a +1 enhancement bonus must be added before any other properties can be added. The bonus and properties granted by the spirit are determined when the spirit is called and cannot be changed until the spirit is called again. The spirit imparts no bonuses if the weapon is held by anyone other than the Holy Warrior but resumes giving bonuses if returned to the Holy Warrior. These bonuses apply to only one end of a double weapon. A Holy Warrior can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every four levels beyond 5th, to a total of four times per day at 17th level.
If a weapon bonded with a spirit is destroyed, the Holy Warrior loses the use of this ability for 30 days, or until she gains a level, whichever comes first. During this 30-day period, the Holy Warrior takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
This replaces weapon training 1,2,3 and 4
Now this is fast and dirty and has no spells but looks close to what is in the book.
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Erius that sounds great. I think this will take a little bit of work but it is doable.
Seeker for Shadow light, thank you, you have given me an excellent idea.
Your suggestion for Archtypes for the figher class is an excellent one.
It led me to thinking about Archtypes for the Paladin class.
Essentially with the Holy warrior what I am trying to do is
Base attack bonus, Saves, hit dice, and the spell casting the same, Im just trying to change the class features. Perhaps make modifications to the spell list.
Perhaps Paladin Archtypes
Maby going the Inquisitor route and having a "holy warrior" pick the "inquisitions"? Im not sure.....or domains and to just get the powers? this will take some thinking.
I think if there was a viable "holy warrior" based on the Paladin Chasis, this will go along way to people griping about paladins, because there are then holy warriors of other stripes to play.
i think its is worth chewing over and thinking about.
Thanks
Glade you liked , I did not go paladin for a few reasons. I do not see paladins as a holy warriors for a god and having 9 versions of the paladins just makes the whole weaker. What does TN replace smite evil with?
I also did not place spells ( but you could easy enough) as you would need to make a new list. And I was doing fast and dirty, but as we see from one Ranger archetype adding half caster should be very doable.
I also like that it is a fighter with many levels of customization though feats. And fighter is the warrior,so I liked the idea of warriors dedicated to gods.
TN gets to choose which axis to smite for the day!
If someone asked for a holy warrior, I would go something like I posted above a fighter archetype. To me a paladin is one thing and only one thing. Nine paladin archetypes are boring, watered down, uncreative and cheap.It lessens both the Paladin and the idea you are trying to do as they are just cheap second hand knock off paladins. And such an idea should not be a cheap copy of something but something new.
I think what I listed above is a good base for a basic Holy warrior,The run of the mill Holy champions for a god.Something like a Blackguard or tyrant knight or a balance champion should be its own thing. I greatly dislike the Anti-Paladin as it is just a mirror Paladin and lost out on so much cool ideas and potential as it is just a cheap paladin knock off.
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Caedwyr,
The "Holy Warrior" is a 20 level base class, which Green Ronnin developed in their sourcebook "The Book of the Righteous". They did a PDF called "holy Warrior" to update the class to 3.5.
The class had the same basic structure as the Paladin, in terms of Base Attack Bonus, Saves, Skills, Hit dice, and Spell progression.
The change was in the "Class Abilities" you picked two "domains" offered by your Deity, and they gave you a set of special abilities, which you gain over a spread of levels. With this class if you picked the right two domains, you had a paladin.
I'll have to look it up again to get the specifics.
Seeker for Shadow light I do like allot of what you have suggested above. I do understand your desire not to weaken or cheapen the paladin.
One of the reasons I have been thinking of doing this “holy Warrior idea” is because I have been contemplating Axing the cleric Druid and Oracle, from my home games.
I liked the step Paizo took, to line up Base Attack bonus with Hit die.
I have been thinking of taking that one step further
If you have +1 base attack bonus, you have d 10 hit dice, and the spell casting of a Paladin/ Ranger
If you have the +1/3 (medium) base attack bonus, you have D 8 Hit dice, and the casting of a Bard/ Inquisitor/ Magus etc.
If you have the +1/2 or (poor) base attack bonus you have d6 hit dice, and the casting of a Wizard Sorcerer.
The cleric Oracle and Druid don’t fit this pattern so I’m thinking of cutting them out. I haven’t figured out all the details yet, or what I'm going to replace those classes with yet.
For the Cleric I might replace it with the “priest” class from the Tome of Secrets. ½ base attack bonus 6 skill points, d6 hit points….full spell casting. No armor.
I’m not sure what to do about the Oracle and the druid yet.
The “Holy Warrior” will then replace the Combat Cleric.
Any ways this is something I am just chewing over at the moment.
I think the "holy warriror" (Paladin) would be nice to have along side of the Ranger and the Hex blade from 3.5
Again thank you for your thoughts. Please keep them coming.
I have done more or less the same thing. There are no d8, Med BAB full casters in my home game. like you I married casting to HD/BAB
The cleric did in fact gain 6 skill points, but it only gets 1 domain and the closted cleric ablilites from UM.
The Oracle became like the sorcerer
Druid gained spell casting like the sorcerer, and lost wild shape.
I am in the process of building a d8/ half caster "skin walker" druid with shapeshift ( PHB 2).
The inquisitor became the "arm of the church" after my changes, but this has got me thinking about the fighter archetype Holy warrior.
I don't see an issue of losing Armor training for half casting.
The reasons I married it to fighter besides my dislike for cheaping it was simply it has very few ablilites. They easily fit on the fighter frame, while allowing the "holy warrior" to gain fighter feats.
I am not sure I like channel however.What about dropping channel in place of spells?
Say spells replace bravery, and maybe have some kind of "divine blessing" take up the slots for armor training?
Actually, Super-Genius Games Templar Base Class does this nicely....
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Seeker for shadowlight. Like you, I dislike the D8 med Bab, Full caster package. I like the idea of marrying casting to Bab and HD.
I will admit I don’t like the cloistered cleric arch type in the Ultimate magic. I feel the character concept of the monk, with a tonsure who illuminates manuscripts, can be better expressed by the Cloistered cleric from the Unearthed Arcana….or the Priest from the Tome of magic. But I’m not sure what I will do yet with the cleric oracle or druid.
Perhaps there is room for something similar to the inquisitor, but closer to a bard….perhaps a “bard” with acess to the cleric/oracle/ spell list instead of the bard spell list? I am thinking that this might well represent a sprirtual community leader, say a “parish priest” with some oratory, sence motive diplomacy, lots of social skils etc.
I do like your d8 med bab, “druid class, with a “bard spell casting progression” and shape shifiting. I think that is well worth using.
While I understand your desire to go the fighter rout Seeker of shadolight, Blade singer has mentioned this Templar class….I think this might be worth checking out.
Thank you Blade singer.
Lone wolf, Thank you for the suggestion of the sacred servant…..I will have to look that one up.
Again thank you for your thoughts…please keep them coming
Glade you liked , I did not go paladin for a few reasons. I do not see paladins as a holy warriors for a god and having 9 versions of the paladins just makes the whole weaker. What does TN replace smite evil with?
I respectfully disagree, due to the whole aspect of Melee Champion of a deity/faith/concept appeals to me far more than having Paladin and then 8 fighter type paladin wannabes.
Also, to answer your question?
Smite Extremist, doing damage comparable to Smite Evil based on the number of steps away from True Neutral. Applies equally to Chaotic Evil and Lawful Good and Lawful Evil and Chaotic good. Scale it so that against one step removal, it's a 25% increase in damage, 75% for two steps, 150% for corners, for lack of better term.
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Well thank you for your suggestion of the Templar. I find I still prefer the Holy Warrior….maby it’s the spells.
Anyways, Perhaps the best place to start is to look at both the Holy Warrior and the Pathfinder Paladin .
The Holy Warrior and the 3.5 Paladin have the same “Structure” In other words the same Base attack bonus, the same saving throws, and the same Spels per day.
At first level, a holy warrior gets an Aura. I think this is identical to a claeric of Palaidn’s Aura.
They also get to pick two Domains that their deity offers. These domains offer extrodinary, spell like and super natural abilities, instead of devine gifts and expanded spll lists. These domains offer one power at 1st level, a second at 2nd level, and a third at 3rd level. They also offer a spell like ability available at 6th level, usable 1/week.
Default Holy Warrior= Paladin.
Champion domain Guardian Domain
1, Smite evile
2, Lay on of hands
3, Aura of courage
Divine givt: Magic circle against evil 1/week
Guardian Domain
1, Detect evil
2 Divine Grace
3 Divine health
Devine givt: Remove Disease 1/week
here is an example of a holy warrior built with different domains
Holy Warrior of Pharasma, N Undead hunter.
Domains: Death
Death: Guardian at death’s door, foes of undead, bring comfort to dying.
1 Save soul: (SU)
Any ally within 10 times the holy warrior’s Charisma modifier in feet (minimum of 10 feet) is under a veil of protection and does not truly cross over into death. When a protected character dies, the spirit does
not depart. Instead, it remains dormant within the corpse for as long as the holy warrior remains
within range and its body is intact. If a subject’s body is destroyed (disintegrated or burnt to ash, for example) then the spirit departs normally.
A corpse retaining its spirit cannot become undead. If raise dead or another spell is
cast on the corpse to restore it to life, the spirit within may choose whether or not the spell succeeds. If it chooses to
return to life, it does so without any trauma or loss of ability
scores, levels, or the like. If no restoration of life is possible,
the holy warrior knows this automatically and can choose to
release the spirit into death. The spirit may manifest and
even speak briefly before it
goes on to its final reward, but such occasions are rare
and entirely at the GMs discretion.
2nd level Channel Energy (SU)
The holy warrior gains the supernatural ability to channel positive energy if good, or positive or negative energy if neutral. If she channels positive energy, she can turn or destroy undead. Or, if she channels negative energy, she can rebuke, command, or bolster undead.
In any event, the holy warrior turns or rebukes as a cleric three levels lower than her class level. Note this imposes a negative modifier at 2nd level and a +0 modifier at 3rd level. A holy warrior may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier.
When a holy warrior with this ability attains 4th level and gains the normal channel energy class feature, she gains two additional benefits: First, she gains Extra Turning as a bonus feat, allowing her to channel energy an additional four times per day. Second, she gains the ability of retributive rebirth. Whenever the holy warrior has twice as many (or more) levels than the affected undead’s hit dice, she may call upon the buried spirit of the undead’s living self. If the undead’s creator is within one mile per holy warrior level, the undead seek and pursue him tirelessly until they are destroyed or he is. Once the undead’s creator is destroyed, the creature turns to dust and its spirit may rest. The undead’s creator may not turn, rebuke, or in any way control undead under the effect of retributive rebirth, although his allies may.
If the undead’s creator is not within range, then the holy warrior destroys or controls the undead normally.
3rd level Necromantic ward (SU)
The holy warrior can channel energy (positive or negative) to protect against death-magic, requiring a standard action and one of the holy warrior’s daily uses of channel energy. The holy warrior and all allies within 30 feet receive a bonus on saving throws against necromantic spells and effects equal to the holy warrior’s Charisma bonus for a number of rounds equal to the holy warrior’s class level.
Additionally, any spell with the death descriptor cast on a subject protected by the necromantic ward rebounds and affects the caster if the subject successfully saves, resulting in no effect on the protected subject. If the subject’s save fails, the death spell has its normal effects. The caster gets a normal saving throw against the reflected spell.
Gift of the Gods
Searing light once per week
Life Domain
1st level Hands of Life (SU)
The holy warrior’s melee attacks (armed or unarmed) are considered good and magical for the purposes of overcoming the damage reduction of undead creatures.
Additionally, once per day, the holy warrior can make her weapon flare with a burst of positive energy, doing an additional 1d6 points of holy damage to any undead or negative energy creature she hits during that round, or even a creature within 30 feet she hits with a missile weapon.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the holy warrior may use hands of life one additional time per day, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.
2nd level Lay on of hands
A holy warrior with this ability and a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her holy warrior level × her Charisma bonus. A holy warrior may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
Alternatively, a holy warrior can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The holy warrior decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
3rd level Abundant life (SU)
The holy warrior has a number of “positive levels” equal to her Charisma bonus. Positive levels counteract negative levels, as well as ability drain from negative energy creatures. When a holy warrior acquires a negative level, she loses one of her positive levels rather than suffering the negative level’s effects. Whenever the holy warrior is affected by an ability draining attack from a negative energy creature (like the undead), the entire attack is canceled by the loss of one positive level. Lost positive levels are restored a
Divine gift
Lesser Restoration 1 week
At 4th level, the Holy warrior gains interestingly enough the ability to Channel energy- they can turn or rebuke undead as a cleric three levels below them.
At 5th level the holy warrior gains an ally, usually a celestial warmount.
A Paladin, holy worrior would get the Champion and guardian domains.
At 6th level the Holy warrior gains a spell like ability chosen from one of his two domains usable 1/week.
The Pathfinder Paladin
1) gains Aura of good, detect evil, and smite evil
2) Divine Grace, Lay on of hands
3) Aura of courage, Divine health, Mercy
4) Channel Positive energy
5 Divine bond.
At first look, I think the Aura, and Ally are easily translatable into the class abilities of the same name. Ally= Devine bond.
The Devine gift will have to be reworked.
I also think I may need to rework Lay on of hands and Mercies.
Perhaps replace Lay on of hands with “Devine gift” which is usaable a number of times a day= ½ level + charisma modifier.
Perhaps your “Devine gift” is based on your Domain selection, and you will have “Devine Boons” (Mercies) with which you can expend uses of your devine gift to activate.
Channel energy requires 2 ueses of your “devine gift”
Anyways it’s a start.
I think ill have to look closely at each domain….to tranlate it.
I’m not quite sure what to do about the spells yet.
I appreciate your thoughts thanks
Super Genius Games has done the Templar