RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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When making use of the Rapid Shot feat, what attack bonus do you use for the additional attack? Your highest? Lowest? It doesn't specify, which seems odd.
Hm, you're right, it doesn't say. With that in mind, I guess we have to go by precedent - other things that grant you an extra attack (such as two-weapon fighting) typically use your highest BAB. This also makes the most sense, as using the lowest of your iterative BAB would cause Rapid Shot to get worse as you leveled - at BAB 1-5, your lowest is your highest. Hit BAB 6, and suddenly your Rapid Shot gets 5 points worse. Surely that can't be the intent?
I think it would be reasonable to assume the position of highest BAB.
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When making use of the Rapid Shot feat, what attack bonus do you use for the additional attack? Your highest? Lowest? It doesn't specify, which seems odd.
Rapid shot allows you to make second attack at your highest BAB - albeit both such attacks suffer a -2 to the attack rolls.
Essentially you're giving up a bit of accuracy off the top for a chance to do additional damage.
Robert
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Another question, though I'm afraid I already know the answer. Would Rapid Shot combine with a Speed weapon? Or would Rapid Shot fall under the "similar effect" wording?
Hm, good question. If they didn't "stack", then that would probably mean it wouldn't work with two-weapon fighting, either. And that just seems weird. Unless someone has some clear text to cite, I think I'd personally allow it, though you should of course check with your GM.
Rapid Shot is not a haste effect. It's a "more attacks in exchange for accuracy" effect, similar to Two-Weapon Fighting. You can use either together with haste.
One gives you penalties, the other doesn't?
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Rapid Shot is not a haste effect. It's a "more attacks in exchange for accuracy" effect, similar to Two-Weapon Fighting. You can use either together with haste.
KaeYoss is completely correct.
Speed Weapons are a "haste" effect. Speed weapons and Haste spell both allow an "extra attack when using full-attack actions."
Rapid Shot is a type of "full-attack" action; which carries it's own penalty trade-off. In similar fashion fighting with two weapons simultaneously is also using a full-attack action - that carries a -2 attack roll penalty (assuming you have the right feat) - just as Rapid Shot does. They are analagous.
Either allow for a speed weapon to impart an additional attack.
It's worth noting that the "speed"/"haste" attack would also suffer the -2 in it's attack rolls - either in the case of two-handed fighters and rapid shot users.
It's also worth noting the Many Shot is ALSO a Full-Attack action.
The advantage/disadvantage of Many Shot vs Rapid Shot is better accuracy w/ the former (no -2 per arrow), and more potential damage for the latter (precision and other such damage applied for each attack).
Robert
It's also worth noting the Many Shot is ALSO a Full-Attack action.
The advantage/disadvantage of Many Shot vs Rapid Shot is better accuracy w/ the former (no -2 per arrow), and more potential damage for the latter (precision and other such damage applied for each attack).
Robert
Actually, neither one is a full attack action - they're both things that trigger "when making a full-attack action with a bow", so they both activate when you do that.
Compare to Vital Strike: "When you use the attack action" or Cleave: "As a standard action"
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It's also worth noting the Many Shot is ALSO a Full-Attack action.
The advantage/disadvantage of Many Shot vs Rapid Shot is better accuracy w/ the former (no -2 per arrow), and more potential damage for the latter (precision and other such damage applied for each attack).
Robert
Actually, neither one is a full attack action - they're both things that trigger "when making a full-attack action with a bow", so they both activate when you do that.
Compare to Vital Strike: "When you use the attack action" or Cleave: "As a standard action"
By the same splitting hair semantics: so two is attacking with an off-hand weapon or making and iterative attack. Upon making a full-attack action, you can use your off-hand to strike a target. Or you can use your iterative attack to strike a target.
Robert
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A two weapon fighter with the Haste spell cast on them can make one extra attack with either weapon. Straight Forward.
A two weapon fighter with the Haste spell cast on them and one weapon of Speed can make... two extra attacks per round? One for the Haste spell on the non-Speed weapon and one for the Speed weapon.
A two weapon fighter with two weapons of Speed can make two extra attacks per round. One for the each weapon of Speed.
Is that correct?
No the effects simply don't stack.
Like two forms of being enlarged. Don't stack. You can either be hasted OR use a speed weapon. You CAN have both - but you still only get the one extra attack.
Any player who lobbies otherwise, their next encounter will be a marilith with 6 weapons of speed and a potion of haste.
Robert
By the same splitting hair semantics: so two is attacking with an off-hand weapon or making and iterative attack. Upon making a full-attack action, you can use your off-hand to strike a target. Or you can use your iterative attack to strike a target.
I'm not quite sure what you're saying here - what are you quoting?
If it's relevant, you can both Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon fight at the same time with thrown weapons. The penalties stack, but you get all the appropriate extra attacks. These are all things that modify a full attack, but aren't themselves a full attack.
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I didn't stack the effects. No weapon got more than +1 attack. Hence the question...No the effects simply don't stack.
A two weapon fighter with the Haste spell cast on them can make one extra attack with either weapon. Straight Forward.
A two weapon fighter with the Haste spell cast on them and one weapon of Speed can make... two extra attacks per round? One for the Haste spell on the non-Speed weapon and one for the Speed weapon.
A two weapon fighter with two weapons of Speed can make two extra attacks per round. One for the each weapon of Speed.
Is that correct?
you only get one extra attack a round. Multiple such attacks are "stacking" the effect 'for that character'; even if from different weapons. "stacking" implies as it is applied to a particular creature.
See horrible shudder causing marilith example above as what NOT to want allowed into the game.
If you have Haste additional movement, and you have expeditious retreat extra movement even from two different sources it still disallows the "stacking" of the benefit.
Having Speed on two different weapons granding multiple extra attacks are "stacking" the benefit to the character.
Robert
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By the same splitting hair semantics: so two is attacking with an off-hand weapon or making and iterative attack. Upon making a full-attack action, you can use your off-hand to strike a target. Or you can use your iterative attack to strike a target.I'm not quite sure what you're saying here - what are you quoting?
If it's relevant, you can both Rapid Shot and Two-Weapon fight at the same time with thrown weapons. The penalties stack, but you get all the appropriate extra attacks. These are all things that modify a full attack, but aren't themselves a full attack.
I don't think i was quoting anything, just sounding off w/ my perceived logic and common sense.
If I can make a secondary attack as part of a "full attack action" which thus constitutes a "full attack action" and I can use a special manuever when I do make a "full attack action" then I should be allowed to do both. If I then have a magical effect that allows one additional attck when I make a full attack action that specifically indicates I cannot stack with other similar magical or game effects, but it does not explicitly remove any non-magical learned feats/training that cannot be combined that carry with it an in-game penalty for attmepting to do so (even on the extra magical attack), then reason stands that I should be able to pull that off also.
Rapid Shot is simply analagous to two-weapon fighting. It's an extra attack at the highest BAB albeit at -2 to hit. Both are part of a full attack action, and both are compatible with an extra attack granted by being sped up magically.
Thats in a nutshell is what I was saying.
Robert
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you only get one extra attack a round. Multiple such attacks are "stacking" the effect 'for that character'; even if from different weapons. "stacking" implies as it is applied to a particular creature.
Using this also explains why you can't grant yourself additional Shield bonuses by wearing two of them, or granted two armor bonuses by wearing armor and having magical bracers of armor on and having mage armor spell cast on the same person.
Even though no one item is giving more than +4 for instance, you still don't add (see: Stack) the bonuses together.
Robert
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you only get one extra attack a round. Multiple such attacks are "stacking" the effect 'for that character'; even if from different weapons. "stacking" implies as it is applied to a particular creature.A simple example where this is not true is the enchantment to add +1d6 fire damage to a weapon. The bonus stacks per weapon, not per creature. There are many further weapon examples, such as a +1 enchantment bonus on weapons that also stack per weapon and not per creature.
Speed, the way the PRD reads, could easily apply to each weapon independently as well. Each effect doesn't stack with haste or similar effect, of course. The stacking rules would therefore not be violated.
As for your example, if a GM introduced a 6-arm creature with Speed swords in each hand, I would expect the extra enchantments on all those swords to do something. Why would the creature ever need them all enchanted as such? Maybe the GM needed to catch the party up on WBL... that'd be a way to do it!
You can wield two +3 weapons, but the weapons do NOT add together to give you a +6 on your attack bonuses.
The Stacking of their enhancement bonuses work the same way that extra movement does; though you're not getting more than +30' from any one source, you do not get to add 60' to your characters movement; they just don't stack that way to affect the "creature"
Extra attacks via speed items work the same way - they do not give the creature the benefit of combined results.
You can make one extra attack per round regardless of how many speed items you have. You can move 30' of extra movement regardless of how many movement enhancements you have.
Robert