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Last night i ran a game for my friend and his group. I usually run for my group, with whom i have gamed for several years. We feel quite comfortable with each other, so graphic description of what weapons and magic do to living beings are thrown around the table a lot. And it's fun.
I forgot that this was a new group. I thankfully noticed that by the second fight the people were getting uncomfortable with my descriptions, so i toned them down.
After the game one of the players asked me why i was so violent. I just said that i like it that way. He told me that i am sick. It got me thinking.
What is the level and "graphicity" of the violence you can stand to hear? I have no boundary really, more bloody and more violent is good for me. What about you?
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I can usually take whatever is dished out in the written or verbal form. If I can actually see what's happened, my tolerance is lower.
That said, I prefer to leave those descriptions semi-vague because my players find it creepier when I say:
Your blade slices across the thief's gut. He clutches at the wound: barely holding back the guts that seem all too eager to cover the floor.
As opposed to something more graphic. I think it is because the human brain is so powerful. If I show you a picture, you see the picture. If I describe a picture, you mind will make one at the highest detail possible for your brain. This way, I can still be graphically descriptive without ever going too far.
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My level of graphic-ness tends to vary only a little from game to game, but that's because the majority of the players are all the same, we just change roles. I suppose I'd rate mine PG-13/R. There are no children at our games; youngest player is 17.
I'll relay some recent ones from a horror-themed game I ran:
"Your axe blow nearly takes the zombies' head off; you then grab a handful of hair and finish the job, spitting in his face for good measure."
"You dump the oil over the zombies as they run past, chasing the half-orc and his horse. . . [fire ensues] . . . the writhing, charred forms melt and spasm and chunks of scorched flesh fall to the ground. A few well-placed crossbow bolts pick off the friskier ones as they try to climb out of the pit."
"Your poor capybara squeals in terror as the drooling corpse snatches him up and attempts to gnaw a hole in his head."
Lots of zombies in that one.
Of course, this is a group that hangs out and watches horror movies and plays in a couple metal bands, so our tolerance for blood and violence is a bit higher than some. I'd have no real problem toning it down for a more sensitive audience, but luckily I haven't had to yet.
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After the game one of the players asked me why i was so violent. I just said that i like it that way. He told me that i am sick. It got me thinking.
Do you torture puppies in your free time? If the answer is no, then you sound like a normal, well-adjusted person who plays a game in which violence is the main way to achieve your goals.
I love gruesome violence in a fantasy game. I find it repulsive in real life, and refuse to watch REAL beheadings and such. The typical PC sees enough violence to send them to the loony bin IRL by 3rd level.
It's a game. The most "real" violence that happens is an occasional spilled drink. Perhaps the player would be happier playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure. He's a truckin' wussy, or something that rhymes with it, if he can't get that straight.
Ask your players what ESRB rating they are comfortable with at the start of the campaign.
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A real life rape victim may not want to LARP being raped. Don't think that makes him a wussy.
We're not talking about LARP here...I also LARP and to be honest, if someone proposed to rape someone IC i would be vehemently opposed to it, because it is different when you do fictitious rape from the comfort of a room with snacks and soda, and in a forest with a bunch of other people in costumes.
People who want to play a traveling hobo who kills things for their stuff should be able to stomach some violence. Sorry, i find a person who can't stand the description of an orc striking somebody with an axe and the ensuing carnage a wuss. Squeamishness is not a trait i am willing to tolerate.
Do you torture puppies in your free time? If the answer is no, then you sound like a normal, well-adjusted person who plays a game in which violence is the main way to achieve your goals.
I love gruesome violence in a fantasy game. I find it repulsive in real life, and refuse to watch REAL beheadings and such. The typical PC sees enough violence to send them to the loony bin IRL by 3rd level.It's a game. The most "real" violence that happens is an occasional spilled drink. Perhaps the player would be happier playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure. He's a truckin' wussy, or something that rhymes with it, if he can't get that straight.
Of course the answer is no...i love puppies. That guy is a major wuss. While others were simply uncomfortable with my descriptions, he was flinching and he whined to stop with te gory stuff.
My friend called me today to tell me that the wuss guy asked him not to invite me back...i am thinking of asking my friend not to tell that guy when or where is the next session. However, i am not going to stoop to his level. I'll give him another shot.
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Some people aren't comfortable with certain levels of gore and violence, even descriptively. Part of the game is finding a comfort level you're all happy with. While my groups tend to describe graphic "Finishing Strikes", most of the rest of combat is "You stab him in the side, he loses X HP" or "You cause a shallow wound in your opponents [limb]". I'm not a fan of graphic gore descriptions in my games (it doesn't really add anything to the experience), so I don't participate in it.
Now that being said, if your player doesn't enjoy the gore level, and it really does impact on the fun level of yourself and the other players it may be that he needs to find another group more accommodating to his tastes. Creating a fun gaming environment is closer to alchemy than real science and any one variable can cause an unfortunate reaction if you aren't careful :)
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I tend to describe gorier details for crits and "one-shots" (be they magical or melee).
I also like to give the players a clear idea of the activities of their enemies: being the GM in a group that ranges from the mid-30s upwards, I have very little qualms.
Moreover, I dislike Scooby-Doo like villains that stay at range and gesture "Woo-hoo I'm a villain! I do bad things!" - the BBEGS and their lackeys build up hate and resentment through a long list of soul-scarring scenes.
Even the funny psychotic goblins of Varisia are more like the commando hidden in the closet, rather than the clumsy pyros setting themselves ablaze.
That said, I also try to steer clear of some elements, glossing over them with broad hints at unspoken of events. Sexual attacks, racial violence, long-term torture, particularly debasing/abusive habits. They're in the game - as I said above - but just out of the camera, so to speak.
I like to scare or horrify the players, not gross them out. Sometimes it's just a fine line to walk, but I know it's there.
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It depends and honestly is hard to say. I mean we have no rule of thumb to rate things against. I might say I like graphic violence but the level i am thinking at a 10 might be a 5 for someone else or vice versa. I mean is saying you cut his head off and blood splurts out consider high graphic violence or low by most people? So having a idea of what everyone considers graphic violence would help.
My last regular group had two guys with combat experience (not the d20 kind), so I tended to scale back the gore. Staring blankly into a corner of the room meant things needed to lighten up.
The new group? No restrictions, no punches pulled.
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My last regular group had two guys with combat experience (not the d20 kind), so I tended to scale back the gore. Staring blankly into a corner of the room meant things needed to lighten up.
This. Depends on the group and present company. If anyone presnet has any trigger issues, it's the social contract to not flaunt material that'll upset them. "Don't be a dick" and all that. Some folks are going to have plenty of reason to be uncomfortable with descriptions of gore. Some folks are going to have ample reason to be uncomfortable with certain plots involving Lamashtu.
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Gore description detracts from my gaming experience. I describe it in oblique terms '...and Amras' court blade takes the guys head off' but when another DM talked about 'your glaive thrusts out the man's back, spleen sticking to the blade' it gets distracting.
I've seen the latter put forth as an example of "grittier and more realisitc than most", but most of the time it winds up coming across as trying too hard. Or looking like Monty Python.
Gore description detracts from my gaming experience. I describe it in oblique terms '...and Amras' court blade takes the guys head off' but when another DM talked about 'your glaive thrusts out the man's back, spleen sticking to the blade' it gets distracting.I've seen the latter put forth as an example of "grittier and more realisitc than most", but most of the time it winds up coming across as trying too hard. Or looking like Monty Python.
This is because the narrator often tries to detail the gore following each swing, when it's much more effective to detail things when the enemy combatant falls or once the battle's over.
Covering every sound, feeling, and olfactory sensation of Blix the Goblin's decapitation doesn't add flavor or depth to the scene. On the other hand, when Clarence the Paladin (yes, he's called 'Clarence'...Clarence Day Jr. if you must know and anyone who catches the reference without looking it up gets a cookie*) falls prone and lands near Blix's severed head, detailing the look of shock still present on the goblin's face can go a long way.
*This depends entirely on whether I've already eaten said cookie.
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I would be interested to see a sample of your descriptions Hama. You could spoiler it for tact or email it to me.
Thanks.
This is a description of what one of my BBEGs did to a former PC, called Arthur, of one of my players. We all got really bored with that character, his player most of all, so i allowed a new one. The BBEG captured the previous PC and "held a display" for the PCs, to show them what will happen to them if they pursue him and try do disrupt his agenda again. They didn't know the villain's name yet. Also, the player who changed a character was now playing Arthur's brother. And note that the description was not originally in english.
That man you have seen ordering those crates loaded to a barge a few days ago is standing in front of you, and, kneeling in front of him is Arthur, his face bloody and swollen. You also notice a few fingers missing from his right hands. He sees you and tries to smile at you. There are no teeth showing from the little you can see. He mumbles something unintelligible. The man listens and says:" Yes, Arthur, your friends. But they will not save you." He looks up at you and says in a louder voice:"You see now what happens to those that try to thwart me. I suggest not making the same mistake the second time, because that time, you will not be given a warning. You will perish."
At that time i allowed initiative rolled, because i do not do cutscenes if i can help it, because let's face it, players hate when they cannot do something to stop stuff from happening. The ranger got the highest initiative, with the BBEG right behind him and shot at him hitting him in the shoulder. Then BBEG proceeded to brutallize Arthur.
You can see Arthur twisting is pain as the man stabs him from behind, the bloody tip of the blade first stretching his shirt and then ripping through it. Arthur gives a gurgling scream of pain and then slumps on the blade. The man puts his foot on Arthur's back and pulls the sword out, letting the body fall to the ground. He gives his blade a twitch which splatters the blood on the ground and looks at you all. The arrow does not seem to bother him at all.\
Also, i love describing damage that bludgeoning weapons do.
** spoiler omitted **
That's actually awesome, it's a little less graphic than we usually do (depending on DM), but it would certainly go over well. I like the detail concerning the shirt!
First, I love getting the bloodiest messes I can get served. Grisly scenes like someone getting half his face dissolved so that the bones show by green slime, great axe wounds that split bodies with foot-long tears and accompanying fountains of blood (arterial pressure means the heart will pump blood out more than a meter into the air from a large enough wound, did you know?), and the like all give me a warm, fuzzy feeling in a game. Even if it happens to my character. Sometimes I try to restrain myself a little. But something I rarely see, and would dearly love to, is some thought given to how that massive dose of violence affects people. What does a person do if their eye is ripped out of their skull, or get a hand crushed? Blade runner is the only movie I actually saw this (seizure after getting shot), and it was thoroughly inspiring. Apparently Japan has a policy about doing this in their media violence regulation. Showing the consequences of violence should help against the numbing down we experience today.
P.S. The Nick Berg video is fake, it was most likely done to a dead person. Cutting the head from someone living doesn't happen without a truly prodigious amount of blood. It's still monstrous, but it's at least somewhat comforting to me that he wasn't alive for it.
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Hmm...how about this? The player of the barbarian character decided to use a great hammer (my homebrew weapon, 1d12 x2 bludgeoning damage), instead of the obvious choice of either a greataxe or a greatsword. And he asked me to describe every kill with the hammer in detail. So he does a cleave and scores a crit doing some 30 damage to each creature hit with the hammer. The blow drops them below negative con. Hence this:
The head of the hammer connect with the darkling's(my homebrew monster from the plane of shadow) head, splattering it like a ripe watermellon. Black blood and yellow brain matter spatter the wall, you and everyone around you. It smells horribly, but you are not done. Driven by momentum, your hammer wedges itself in the chest of the second darkling. The force of the blow is such that it's back bursts and showers the wall behind it with blood and organs. It's body slumps of the hammer with a wet slurping sound and thuds on the ground, a pool of black, glistening blood spreading around it.
And, yes, i tend to describe impressive finishing blows....i also LOVE describing what magic does to a living being. I take cues from Pratchett.
And, yes, i tend to describe impressive finishing blows....i also LOVE describing what magic does to a living being. I take cues from Pratchett.
And that's the thing maybe it's because I have read a lot of Pratchett but your descriptions are not that gruesome. I mean I am sure the set direction notes for something like Bad Taste or a Takashi Miike film might be more intense but even then not really deserving of the reactions you got. Maybe I am just jaded, but its just not that bad to me. Sorry you ran into a crowd who has a much lower threshold of violence than you do.
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I agree that one was a bit more but still nothing over the top IMHO.
Or describing someone being burned to death in great detail might be a bit much.
For me personally, whether I am GM-ing or playing in a game, I LOVE gore. The more gratuitous and extreme it is, the better!
As a GM I enjoy describing "finishing moves" that kill off bad guys, and when I play, I enjoy hearing my character killed something in a grotesque way.
In fact, I really don't have a limit to the gore I wanna hear about, I'd be perfectly fine if my GM says:
Now that's gross! And awesome.
Darn, I wanted to put the gross description in my post above in a spoiler box like you guys did, but I can't figure out how you do that. Can you guys let me know how to do that, so I can edit my post and not offend people? Thanks.
([)spoiler=My definition of gross(/])
*quoted stuff*
([/spoiler])Just take out the parenthesis
Cool thanx!
Yeah...I avoid gore. Not a fan. That said, I wish I could come up with ways to describe truly psychologically evil villains. My best has been rather cliche
-Interestingly enough the sole female player in my group pretty much decided right then and there that the villain was "going to die by blood loss from castration." And she did get her way.
-Some of my players told me to tone down the game at the point.
Hmm...how about this? The player of the barbarian character decided to use a great hammer... The blow drops them below negative con.
That level of detail would make me a bit uncomfortable. I don't think it's over the top, as long as your group is all okay with it. I think toning it down for this game was the correct move on your part, since you noticed the players didn't like the graphic descriptions. It's also good that the one player talked to you about it after the game (although calling you "sick" rather than just asking you to tone it down was probably uncalled for).
Yeah...I avoid gore. Not a fan. That said, I wish I could come up with ways to describe truly psychologically evil villains. My best has been rather cliche
** spoiler omitted **
Action/horror movie type gore generally hasn't been a problem with any players I've ever played with, but sexual abuse/rape is a very disturbing and sensitive topic. My advice is to really be careful how and when you approach that topic in a game, and really know your players well before you do bring that up.
I personally have never brought that topic up in one of my games, as I find it much too difficult to talk about with people, and in the context of a game, seems inappropriate to me.
Action/horror movie type gore generally hasn't been a problem with any players I've ever played with, but sexual abuse/rape is a very disturbing and sensitive topic. My advice is to really be careful how and when you approach that topic in a game, and really know your players well before you do bring that up.I personally have never brought that topic up in one of my games, as I find it much too difficult to talk about with people, and in the context of a game, seems inappropriate to me.
If it's an appropriate theme in a novel, it's appropriate for a game. That said graphic depictions of sexual violence (or just sex) don't belong. I find that having truly hideous, evil villains helps keep the party cohesive, and even the neutral characters find most of these villains, sick.
I love these descriptions, none of them make me uncomfortable in the least, I found reading them that I was getting excited to play again! I love my DM's descriptions of my arrow piercing the head of the goblin, or my sword rending their flesh, the bones crushing under my furious assault.
Gore has never been a problem for me in anything and neither is the sexual stuff you guys are talking about. If I'm playing the hero, yeah totally I'll get revenge, but if I'm playing the villan who's to say I won't be the sadist rapist? I've got a couple vile characters in my past, my character held a girl hostage for serveral months before my character finally went insane (retired) and my bro's cleric used to dismember and hide victims for the hell of it. We're not strangers to that stuff.
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Of course the answer is no...i love puppies. That guy is a major wuss. While others were simply uncomfortable with my descriptions, he was flinching and he whined to stop with te gory stuff.
My friend called me today to tell me that the wuss guy asked him not to invite me back...i am thinking of asking my friend not to tell that guy when or where is the next session. However, i am not going to stoop to his level. I'll give him another shot.
You think your player is a wuss.
The player thinks your play style is repugnant.
Neither of you appear to like or respect the other.
Why would you play with each other?