So I'm making a swashbucklin' scout rogue for a game coming up. I'd like some critiquing of my build, please.
Half-Elf Swashbuckler Scout Rogue 15
rolls: 18, 14, 12, 15, 15, 15 (wow!)
STR 18 +4
DEX 18 +4 [15+1+2racial]
CON 16 +3 [15+1]
INT 14 +2
WIS 15 +2 [14+1]
CHA 12 +1
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] MWP (Longbow)
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Weapon Focus (Nodachi)
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Deadly Aim
11 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
13 Critical Focus
15 Staggering Critical
BAB 11/6/1
melee +16/+11/+6 1d10+___(not important atm) 15-20 x2
Range 15/10/5 1d8+____(not important atm) 20 x3
Class Abilities
Evasion, Greater
MWP
May take Combat Trick Twice
Scout's charge- SA on a charge
Skirmisher- SA on at least a 10' move
SA+8d6
240,000gp. Any suggestions on items? not weapons, I have an idea for those. I want to try and max out my base land speed.
The longbow is for long range combat. I'll move+shoot until they get in range and then drop it and charge with the nodachi, Spring Attacking from enemy to enemy until everything is dead. Main focus is on the melee, but the backup is the range, just in case.
not equipment, but may I strongly recommend Cartwheel Dodge (UC feat) for your build, if you use evasion successfully you can move half your speed. This allows to move 10 feet and then when it's your turn full attack with sneak attacks as scout.
For extra cheese, ask your local wizard to have a wind-elemental, if he uses whirlwind you have like 95% chance to freely move half your speed.
This allows to move 10 feet and then when it's your turn full attack with sneak attacks as scout.
That feat is nice. However, the scout archetype specifically only allows it on the first attack of a move.
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I hate to be 'that guy' all the time, but have you considered Urban Ranger instead? You can role-play it exactly the same, you'll just be way better on the combat side of things.
Either way, I don't see the need to increase you dexterity so high if you're not using finesse or TWF. Put more into strength for stats like this:
Str 20
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 15
Cha 12
A rogue's biggest weakness is the amount of damage they do. Help yourself out by making that the first focus. One thing you should invest in is a cloak of displacement. Even the cheap one will negate 20% of oncoming hits.
I hate to be 'that guy' all the time, but have you considered Urban Ranger instead? You can role-play it exactly the same, you'll just be way better on the combat side of things.
Either way, I don't see the need to increase you dexterity so high if you're not using finesse or TWF. Put more into strength for stats like this:
Str 20
Dex 15
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 15
Cha 12A rogue's biggest weakness is the amount of damage they do. Help yourself out by making that the first focus. One thing you should invest in is a cloak of displacement. Even the cheap one will negate 20% of oncoming hits.
It's more or less for AC cause I'll be moving around a lot. I could put the +2 racial into strength and still have a +3 modifier for dex. I had this idea for a character for a while, and now I get the chance to play him. I'm not going to go urban ranger, even though I know it could be better, damage wise.
This build isn't about damage, it's about the character. It's still good per hit damage, and with the enchantments that are going on the weapon, I'll more than be able to keep up. Besides, the party isn't average fighter/wiz/etc by any means. It's this guy, a Musket Master, a Crusader/Undead Lord (DM OK'd it cause the character concept is amazing), and a magus.
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That's fine, although I want to point out that classes are not and never should be considered character concepts. A rogue need not act rogue-like, a ranger need not always be the woodsman. So if it's just a concept you've had, then an urban ranger is also a good swashbuckler, and better mechanically.
If you stay rogue, yes, do pump strength. Also, consider saving yourself a feat on the longbow proficiency. You could instead get +2 to will saves, which are a rogue weakness, and use a shortbow for 1 less damage per shot.
Let's see, you've got a Cha score of 12, so you need full ranks of UMD. Bam, auto-succeed with a wand. I would suggest swapping out Deadly Aim for Quick-Draw. As a 3/4 BAB class focusing on melee combat with ranged on the side, you don't have enough feats to focus on both. Quick-draw will let you get wands out, and will still let you swap out the bow for when you need it.
The reason I'm so insistent on wands is because you wanted to maximize your movement. (Also, wands of CLW are amazing) Mostly though, because for the low price of 6000gp you can get a wand of haste. 30ft extra movement plus extra DPR and without having to bother your only arcane caster.
That's fine, although I want to point out that classes are not and never should be considered character concepts. A rogue need not act rogue-like, a ranger need not always be the woodsman. So if it's just a concept you've had, then an urban ranger is also a good swashbuckler, and better mechanically.
If you stay rogue, yes, do pump strength. Also, consider saving yourself a feat on the longbow proficiency. You could instead get +2 to will saves, which are a rogue weakness, and use a shortbow for 1 less damage per shot.
Let's see, you've got a Cha score of 12, so you need full ranks of UMD. Bam, auto-succeed with a wand. I would suggest swapping out Deadly Aim for Quick-Draw. As a 3/4 BAB class focusing on melee combat with ranged on the side, you don't have enough feats to focus on both. Quick-draw will let you get wands out, and will still let you swap out the bow for when you need it.
The reason I'm so insistent on wands is because you wanted to maximize your movement. (Also, wands of CLW are amazing) Mostly though, because for the low price of 6000gp you can get a wand of haste. 30ft extra movement plus extra DPR and without having to bother your only arcane caster.
I see, I see. The longbow proficiency wouldn't necessarily save me a feat because it's a half elf racial alternate bonus, but deadly aim would. I'll drop DA for QD, put the racial SF into UMD, and I'm A-OK.
Side note, haste is an enhancement bonus so are there any continuous effect items that that affect land speed that aren't an enhancement?
Rogue Talents: As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent. She gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.
SO you need rerange some things.
Boots of Speed
Aura moderate transmutation; CL 10th
Slot feet; Price 12,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
As a free action, the wearer can click her heels together, letting her act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The haste effect's duration need not be consecutive rounds.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, haste; Cost 6,000 gp
Boots of Striding and Springing
Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot feet; Price 5,500 gp; Weight 1 lb.
Description
These boots increase the wearer's base land speed by 10 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5 competence bonus on Acrobatics checks.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, longstrider, creator must have 5 ranks in the Acrobatics skill; Cost 2,750 gp
Speed: When making a full-attack action, the wielder of a speed weapon may make one extra attack with it. The attack uses the wielder's full base attack bonus, plus any modifiers appropriate to the situation. (This benefit is not cumulative with similar effects, such as a haste spell.)
Moderate transmutation; CL 7th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, haste; Price +3 bonus.
Rogue Talents: As a rogue gains experience, she learns a number of talents that aid her and confound her foes. Starting at 2nd level, a rogue gains one rogue talent. She gains an additional rogue talent for every 2 levels of rogue attained after 2nd level. A rogue cannot select an individual talent more than once.
SO you need rerange some things.
What do I need to rearrange? Swashbuckler allows me to take combat trick twice, which I have.
Thanks for the boots. The weapons are special for this character. This isn't a full attack beast, but a sneak attack champion. I'll only be getting off one attack per round, and I'm totally ok with that.
Half-Elf Swashbuckler Scout Rogue 15
rolls: 18, 14, 12, 15, 15, 15 (wow!)
STR 20 +5 [+2 racial]
DEX 16 +3 [15+1]
CON 16 +3 [15+1]
INT 14 +2
WIS 15 +2 [14+1]
CHA 12 +1
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Weapon Focus (Nodachi)
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Quick Draw
11 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
13 Critical Focus
15 Staggering Critical
BAB 11/6/1
melee +17/+12/+7 1d10+___(not important atm) 15-20 x2
Range +14/+9/+4 1d6+____(not important atm)
Class Abilities
Evasion, Greater
MWP
May take Combat Trick Twice
Scout's charge- SA on a charge
Skirmisher- SA on at least a 10' move
SA+8d6
"Swashbuckler allows me to take combat trick twice, which I have."
That all on me Did not see that in the Swashbucker as an abilty.
my bad
"Swashbuckler allows me to take combat trick twice, which I have."
That all on me Did not see that in the Swashbucker as an abilty.
my bad
No problems, mate :) thanks for the boots suggestion
instead of doing all these crazy workarounds, i too would suggest an urban ranger.
nodachi is a martial weapom and so is longbow, you get both proficiencies for free by being an urban ranger. and you can be human instead for that extra feat and the bonus skill points. and you can use wands of CLW without having to blow skill points by virtue of being a ranger.
my suggestions for your array (after Racial/level modifiers but before wealth)
Human Urban Ranger
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 12
favored class bonus should go to hit points and toughness is a reccomended feat.
i would also suggest a mithril shirt as your preferred armor.
by going with a human urban ranger, you have potentially freed yourself 3 feats off the bat, and 2 potential skill points per level.
Actually mobile fighter will work if you want to move and still be able to full attack and you can make a mobile fighter archer.
instead of doing all these crazy workarounds, i too would suggest an urban ranger.
nodachi is a martial weapom and so is longbow, you get both proficiencies for free by being an urban ranger. and you can be human instead for that extra feat and the bonus skill points. and you can use wands of CLW without having to blow skill points by virtue of being a ranger.
my suggestions for your array (after Racial/level modifiers but before wealth)
Human Urban Ranger
Str 18
Dex 18
Con 16
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha 12favored class bonus should go to hit points and toughness is a reccomended feat.
i would also suggest a mithril shirt as your preferred armor.
by going with a human urban ranger, you have potentially freed yourself 3 feats off the bat, and 2 potential skill points per level.
I appreciate the advice, but I'm not changing the class. What crazy workarounds are you talking about?
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You mentioned EWP up there. Why not just use the free Martial Weapon proficiency from Swashbuckler (unarguably it's best feature) for the Nodachi, eat the reduced damage and use a Shortbow instead of a longbow (1 feat for 1 point of damage? blech), skip Half-Elf and go Human, and use the feats for something like Power Attack and Furious Focus? I find those two REALLY drive home the one-hit-wonder nature of the Scout Rogue.
You mentioned EWP up there. Why not just use the free Martial Weapon proficiency from Swashbuckler (unarguably it's best feature) for the Nodachi, eat the reduced damage and use a Shortbow instead of a longbow (1 feat for 1 point of damage? blech), skip Half-Elf and go Human, and use the feats for something like Power Attack and Furious Focus? I find those two REALLY drive home the one-hit-wonder nature of the Scout Rogue.
Rouge does not qualify for power attack and thus furious focus at level 1.
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Ah. Didn't realize that. Well, no matter. Move Dodge and Mobility up a notch, replace one of them with Furious Focus (already took power attack, my bad), and consider either taking Vital Strike (if your DM will allow it to work with Spring Attack) or Cleave/Great Cleave. I'd probably get rid of Critical Focus and Staggering Critical, too, maybe for Dazing Assault, or possibly Wind Stance and Lightning Stance, since you'll be incredibly mobile anyways.
wind stance is only against ranged attacks (which is situational) and lightning stance is if fighting defensively IIRC. I might pick up wind, but not lightning. Good idea for the furious focus and moving dodge and mobility.
I changed the block to represent a shortbow, not a longbow, cause I decided to not use the half elf racial alternate for a weapon proficiency. the Exotic weapon proficiency is granted by Swashbuckler. It says Martial or Exotic. Why only go martial when I can have the exotic for no extra cost to me?
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Quick Draw
13 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
15 Dazing Assault
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wind stance is only against ranged attacks (which is situational) and lightning stance is if fighting defensively IIRC. I might pick up wind, but not lightning. Good idea for the furious focus and moving dodge and mobility.
I changed the block to represent a shortbow, not a longbow, cause I decided to not use the half elf racial alternate for a weapon proficiency. the Exotic weapon proficiency is granted by Swashbuckler. It says Martial or Exotic. Why only go martial when I can have the exotic for no extra cost to me?
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Quick Draw
13 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
15 Dazing Assault
Yeah. That's a pretty rocking build right there.
On a side note, though, Swashbuckler says Martial, not martial or exotic.
But it doesn't matter, since the Nodachi is a martial weapon.
wind stance is only against ranged attacks (which is situational) and lightning stance is if fighting defensively IIRC. I might pick up wind, but not lightning. Good idea for the furious focus and moving dodge and mobility.
I changed the block to represent a shortbow, not a longbow, cause I decided to not use the half elf racial alternate for a weapon proficiency. the Exotic weapon proficiency is granted by Swashbuckler. It says Martial or Exotic. Why only go martial when I can have the exotic for no extra cost to me?
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Quick Draw
13 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
15 Dazing AssaultYeah. That's a pretty rocking build right there.
On a side note, though, Swashbuckler says Martial, not martial or exotic.
But it doesn't matter, since the Nodachi is a martial weapon.
My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. With the MWP should I go for greatsword or nodachi?
One more thing. Name suggestions :)
greatsword. crits matter less to a rogue due to the lack of multipliable damage.
greatsword is more consistent.
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wind stance is only against ranged attacks (which is situational) and lightning stance is if fighting defensively IIRC. I might pick up wind, but not lightning. Good idea for the furious focus and moving dodge and mobility.
I changed the block to represent a shortbow, not a longbow, cause I decided to not use the half elf racial alternate for a weapon proficiency. the Exotic weapon proficiency is granted by Swashbuckler. It says Martial or Exotic. Why only go martial when I can have the exotic for no extra cost to me?
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Quick Draw
13 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
15 Dazing AssaultYeah. That's a pretty rocking build right there.
On a side note, though, Swashbuckler says Martial, not martial or exotic.
But it doesn't matter, since the Nodachi is a martial weapon.
My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. With the MWP should I go for greatsword or nodachi?
One more thing. Name suggestions :)
Don't take Furious Focus so soon. It's not worth it until you're actually taking extra penalties from Power Attack, which for a rogue won't happen until 6th level. At third you're getting an extra +1 attack with furious focus, which you could get with weapon focus, and it would still work when not power attacking. I would actually move furious focus all the way up to level 11, when you start taking a -3 penalty on Power Attack. Move weapon focus down to third, and possibly even to second.
Also, if you're starting at level 15, you don't need Skill Focus: UMD. With 15 ranks into UMD (which a rogue can afford), and a 12 charisma score, you have a base score of +19 UMD, which means you have automatic success with wands (because you don't fail on a 1 for skill checks). A better choice would be replacing Adaptability with the Dual Minded alternate trait, which gives you a +2 to Will Saves.
Don't take Furious Focus so soon. It's not worth it until you're actually taking extra penalties from Power Attack, which for a rogue won't happen until 6th level. At third you're getting an extra +1 attack with furious focus, which you could get with weapon focus, and it would still work when not power attacking. I would actually move furious focus all the way up to level 11, when you start taking a -3 penalty on Power Attack. Move weapon focus down to third, and possibly even to second.wind stance is only against ranged attacks (which is situational) and lightning stance is if fighting defensively IIRC. I might pick up wind, but not lightning. Good idea for the furious focus and moving dodge and mobility.
I changed the block to represent a shortbow, not a longbow, cause I decided to not use the half elf racial alternate for a weapon proficiency. the Exotic weapon proficiency is granted by Swashbuckler. It says Martial or Exotic. Why only go martial when I can have the exotic for no extra cost to me?
1 Combat Reflexes
1b [racial] SF UMD
1b EWP (Nodachi)
2b (Combat Trick) Power Attack
3 Furious Focus
5 Dodge
6 (Combat Trick) Mobility
7 Spring Attack
9 Weapon Focus (nodachi)
11 Quick Draw
13 Imp Critical (Nodachi)
15 Dazing AssaultYeah. That's a pretty rocking build right there.
On a side note, though, Swashbuckler says Martial, not martial or exotic.
But it doesn't matter, since the Nodachi is a martial weapon.
My bad. Thanks for pointing that out. With the MWP should I go for greatsword or nodachi?
One more thing. Name suggestions :)
the build is starting 15th level, but we have to make the same character level 2 after for a prequel game. I'llkeep that in mind
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Derp, forgot you were starting at level 15. And then in my second paragraph, I remembered that you were starting at level 15.
Remember, though, that you can use Use Magic Device to qualify for equipment that has a specific class feature as a Prerequisite. For example, he could go out and pick up a pair of Duelists Gloves and emulate the Weapon Training class feature for the purposes of wielding them, not to mention other possibly useful class-specific gear.
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Derp, forgot you were starting at level 15. And then in my second paragraph, I remembered that you were starting at level 15.Remember, though, that you can use Use Magic Device to qualify for equipment that has a specific class feature as a Prerequisite. For example, he could go out and pick up a pair of Duelists Gloves and emulate the Weapon Training class feature for the purposes of wielding them, not to mention other possibly useful class-specific gear.
He doesn't need Skill Focus: UMD to reach that DC. The DC to emulate a class feature is 20, and he auto-succeeds at that with just 15 ranks and 12 charisma. Skill Focus brings it up to 26, which is really only useful for auto-succeeding on activating blindly; personally I'd rather have +2 to will saves.