Ok, been DMing Burnt Offerings for a few weeks now and my party of 5 (Half-Elf Druid, Dwarf Pally, Human Fighter, Half-Orc Alchemist and something Oracle) have managed to
1: Misinterpret the letter from Tsuto (arriving at the glassworks after he has left for Thistletop with Ameiko (thus also missing out on his journal)
2: Head into the Catacombs of Wrath and after getting the Pally nearly killed (-9hp with Con of 12) by the Sinspawn in B1 (a good portion of the damage donw by the alchemist missing with his bombs) head directly to B12 and B13 and the fight with Erylium. At this point the Oracle, Druid and Fighter rush the Sinspawn at the runewell while the Alchemist and Pally try to take down Erylium with bombs and a crossbow. Naturally, the alchemist misses with his first bomb which proceeds to scatter directly into the runewell, exploding inside the watter and showering the rest of the party with Wrath Water (I decide that half damage and an easier will save vs rage will apply to all members within 5 feet of the well) causing the Druid's pet and the Fighter to rage. Long story short, the sinspawn drops quickly and Erylium eventually goes down after getting into close combat and dropping the pally's dex to 4 (YAY level 1 characters not having immunity to anything yet) once they manage to get into a position where she is the nearest creature to the fighter (I let the druid use handle animal on a turn by turn basis to keep her pet from attacking). At this point the oracle is on 0 hp so the alchemist and pally decide that the best way to deal with the fighter is to knock her unconscious, tie her up and let the rage die out while the druid keeps her pet from doing anything and the oracle ties it up. The alchemist hits with a greataxe for max damage and the pally then swings and deals max damage dealing enough damage to kill the fighter (by 1)
The aftermath of all this is
They have no idea which goblin group to attack
They managed to get enough cash from Erylium's dagger to afford a reincarnation (roll was 00, DM's choice)
The pally is now an LN ex-pally (deliberately attacking a fellow LG party member who worships the same god as you with lethal damage and killing them = evil in my books) with 4 dex until the poison wears off
Everyone hit level 2
My questions:
How do I direct them to Thistletop? I'm thinking of just having a villager come up to them and explain that they went into the glassworks to see why it was so dead and found the journal in one of the rooms the party skipped.
What should I reincarnate the (scythe wielding trip specd) fighter as?
What is the procedure (and cost) for a pally undergoing attonement and getting 8 points of poison dex damage healed?
The Dex damage will heal 1 per day of rest, or 2 if bedresting. Lesser restoration might be available if they have coin to spend on it, for 1d4 returned per casting.
It sounds like the fighter died merely due to poor decisions on his party's part. You could go for a normally level adjusted race, or just Bugbear for the awesome boosts to physical stats. Sure, it may be an issue with Shelelu, but what's story without potential conflicts?
Yea, I found the stuff on ability healing and atonement. Pally's going to be about 1k out of pocket (assuming the party doesn't fork out for it)
I'll see if I can find the merchant wagon in the text
The fighter died mostly due to some bad decisions and some good rolling (they would have been cheering to roll that well normally) I'm looking for a reincarnation that wont overpower the character (recently played in a campaign with a vampire and it wasn't a lot of fun for anyone). I also don't want anything significantly underpowered (don't really want to penalize them too much, they already had to use up most of the cash they have found). Ideally I want something that will be fun for the player and will likely cause some conflict in the group but nothing huge. I'm considering Goblin just for the villager hate... this is the big one I'm struggling with
What could be funny would be a reincarnation as a Sinspawn of Wrath. It would suit well the fighter's downfall.
Or any other race marked heavily by wrath, for that matter.
The White wrote: Yea, I found the stuff on ability healing and atonement. Pally's going to be about 1k out of pocket (assuming the party doesn't fork out for it)
I'll see if I can find the merchant wagon in the text
The fighter died mostly due to some bad decisions and some good rolling (they would have been cheering to roll that well normally) I'm looking for a reincarnation that wont overpower the character (recently played in a campaign with a vampire and it wasn't a lot of fun for anyone). I also don't want anything significantly underpowered (don't really want to penalize them too much, they already had to use up most of the cash they have found). Ideally I want something that will be fun for the player and will likely cause some conflict in the group but nothing huge. I'm considering Goblin just for the villager hate... this is the big one I'm struggling with
Changing his size will nerf all of his equipment, requiring him to sell off weapons and armor and rebuy, atop being down two negative levels from the reincarnate. You could go for Aasimar or Tiefling, either of which will have RP effects with the town.
I like the idea of going with something wrath based for the irony of it all. Going small would really just be a bit more of a cash soak and put a bit more pressure on the pally to get his own cash together so I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or not. Not to mention that small nerfs her trip a bit. Small wrathful creature is sounding good.
Also, since the character was level one at death she gets the 2 point con drain instead of negative levels
A couple things:
1) I'd be tempted to make the Atonement be free to the Paladin somehow.
It'd be really easy for the player to feel hard done by for losing his palidinhood over what was essentially an accident. This wasn't a murder; at best it was a case of manslaughter or negligence causing death.
One good way past the cost is to have the Paladin accept the Atonement and get Quested to do something that he would have done anyway.
2) I'd be cautious with your reincarnate as well. I'd probably use the DM's choice to return him back to 1st level with no negative levels from the reincarnate - because the 2 negative levels (-2 to attack, saves, skills, checks, CMB, CMD, -10HP) is really, really punishing without a great reason to do it and lots of reason to use that DM fiat hammer because you did get the 00 on the die. I'd even think about no negative levels and no xp loss at all, depending on the race you pick.
I'd worry about picking something obviously wrathful as it could be either unbalancing or unplayable (in terms of being in a city/town) or both. i.e. if he came back as a bugbear/orc/sinspawn/lycanthrope/something really nasty it'd be punishing on the player.
Aasimar and Tiefling both work (wrathful or its antithesis) in that they are both easy to hide, but hinder the player from a fighter optimization standpoint because he loses his Human +2, which presumably was in Str in exchange for no bonus or DEX, darkvision, some minor resistances and spell-like abilities.
An out of the box idea would be Duergar, the thought being that the new fighter would be the wrathful reflection of the Dwarven Paladin who killed him. I'd even make the appearances similar as though they were twins separated by race. Not overpowering really as the light sensitivity will come up from time to time, enlarge helps with being a trip monster (but costs a round to cast and is a round/level effect) and invisibility isn't a game breaker because he'll be slow and loud and it's 1/day.
Great post Greycloak. I had thought of an atonement quest but I hadn't read far enough to see if there was a good one, I'll have to read that part in #3. As far as the reincarnation goes, I've already decided that the only penalty I'll be hitting the fighter with is the -2 Con drain and whatever race gets chosen. Fortunately I have a really good group, the fighter will be happy with almost any choice I make provided it isn't something really stupid and I think the only choice that would really clash with the group is Aasimar (the druid wanted to be one but I'd said core races only). I really like the idea of Duergar, it would mitigate the con drain and (if I'm reading reincarnate right) the +2wis -4cha would be ignored so I'm basically moving the +2str from human to +con and I know she would love the +2CMD vs trip. I'm going to have to come up with something really cool to beat that
Perhaps instead of reincarnate working as described the Paladin's god could get involved directly. When the reincarnate is cast, the fighter comes back as he was, still enraged, and tries to kill the party, again. He takes non-lethal damage as normal, but is for the time being immune to lethal damage - and hitting him with lethal damage sickens the attacker.
This would allow the player to keep his character as it was and should teach the party to use non-lethal damage in this kind of situations in the future.
Should the fighter win because they don't realize that they should avoid lethal damage, you can avoid a TPK by simply saying it was a shared dream/vision, leaving all of them staggered at 0 HP after the fighter killed them all.
This fight with a few prayers by the paladin and true understanding that he made a terrible mistake should be enough. Atonement was a mechanic introduced to specifically state that certain character classes had to follow a certain ethos, but shouldn't be seen as a straight jacket. Especially for low level parties without access to a major temple, it becomes too complicated. In the end if you're convinced that the player realized his mistake and will strife to do better, it can be enough.
I asked a grandmaster GM. Her suggestion about the reincarnation is to make sure that the player can roleplay whatever his character comes back as. Don't make him an exotic species if the player will mess up roleplaying that species. On the other hand, this is s good opportunity to force the player outside his comfort zone. Does he always play humans? If so, make his character an elf or dwarf.
As for getting the game back on track, Shelalu is supposed to come back from Thistletop with a broken arm and news of an upcoming invasion. How about having her spot Ameiko as a prisoner atop Thistletop, too? If the party cannot handle Thistletop yet, have Ameiko come back able bodied and explain that she is looking for more manpower to help rescue Ameiko.
By the way, I have played a first-level alchemist. A missed bomb can land in only eight different squares each 20 feet from the target. Before bomb throwing, I would make sure no party member was in or next to one of the squares. Someone should explain this to the player playing the alchemist.
The White wrote:
The aftermath of all this is
They have no idea which goblin group to attack
They managed to get enough cash from Erylium's dagger to afford a reincarnation (roll was 00,...
That's easy. During this part of the plot, they should be acting as deputies while the sheriff is out of town. This was done to prevent the party from going straight to Thistletop after meeting Shalelu Andosana (the ranger who specializes in goblin lore). Just have Shalelu come back into town with confirmation that Thistletop goblins were working with “longshanks”, one of which may have been an Half-elf.
Assuming you have feed them the Tsuto background via role playing or knowledge local checks, they would assume that Tsuto is involved with thistletop.
Your party NEEDS levels now. They should have faced the catacombs of wrath as level 2+ and should be level 3+ in thistletop. By time they end Burnt offerings they should be pushing level 5. Throw few CR 2 goblins with a basic class levels at them and hold a few punches.
A Level two goblin sorcerer who just happens to know only non-damage spells like grease combined with a a handful of cr 1/3 goblins, for example. Dangerous, but not a true PC killer if played right.
If they are going to thistletop, make it a goblin fight the whole way. It's okay if someone is knocked out as long as they have heal kits or a cleric.
On the reincarnate thing...I'm at the start of a RoRL game and here's how I've decided to deal with player deaths: All PCs are Pathfinders in game. All Pathfinders are marked via a magical tattoo on their forearm. It's basically an adventurers guild that supplies them with basic equipment like food, bedding, and what not while traveling. They also handle lodging via contracts with a few inns (not all of them). Inns are Pathfinder neutral zones. This costs the PCs 20gp a playable month.
Anyhow, before and after EVERY adventure, the PCs must stop by their local Pathfinders office and hand over a full write up of the adventure. When a PC dies, the remaining PCs go to the Pathfinder office and ask for a new adventuring partner. That adventuring partner is then handed the dead PCs reports on what has happened so far and reads them. The new adventurer has 75% wealth of the previous dead PC and can go shopping in at in game shops.
Which in practice means the player gets a class, race, and personality change upon death. The player DOESN'T lose any knowledge. They get to keep that. Since I'm using a purchase system for Ability points in character creation, the player gets what is effectively a very aggressive resurrection, with none of the traditional drawbacks. They just lose some of their wealth.
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