Trying to stat up a king...


Homebrew and House Rules


Long story short, this king rules over a pretty successful kingdom, and is also the head of a powerful Paladin order. So, I thought I might want to give him Paladin levels in order to reflect this and the fact that he was a former adventurer.

What level Paladin do you think is appropriate? The players are starting off at 2nd level, and the capital city is under siege. I want the king to be powerful enough to instill some awe in the PCs, but not so powerful that they're wondering why he isn't wiping the floor with the enemy army. I thought the easiest way to explain it is that the PCs are encountering mostly the rank and file footsoldiers, and maybe see some big hitters from time to time but avoid them. Thus, the king and other powerful NPCs can still fight outside the scenes, but it doesn't break suspension of disbelief.

What have you done when statting up kings and royal guards and the like?


If it's your homebrew king, then make him as powerful as he needs to be! *grin*

But on a more serious note, depending on how long he kept at his profession of paladin, that could be one indicator of level. Also, bear in mind that most of his time has probably been spent honing his diplomacy skills and so lots of levels of diplomat (npc class) are in order. Maybe paladin 5/diplomat 10-12? Good luck!


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

It really depends on how far you want the arc to go, and at what point would you want to have your players start overshadowing the king and his champions.

A paladin 5/aristocrat 3 would be a fairly capable king.

For structuring the army, I would expect:

Soldiers - level 1
Sergeants - level 2
Lieutenants - level 3
Captains - level 4
Generals - level 5+

But it really depends on what level range you feel your world should have. For a more epic world you could double the range of each rank.


There is no reason the King has to be more powerful (in a RP Combat sense) than his subjects (or his enemies). That said, an Aristocrat 2/Paladin 5 with the aged attributes works well. 2 levels of NPC class won't raise his CR (if that becomes relevant).

One way to awe your players could be to make him really well known for something he did in his youthful adventuring days, but keep it a bit secretive. "August Majesty Justice I, Victor at River's Bend" etc.


I agree with giving him Aristocrat. IMO, MOST rulers should only have NPC classes, because they rarely pick up a sword and do battle. However, since you described the king as a former adventurer, base his levels on how long he was an adventurer. If he was an adventurer for 5 years, and then a king for 15 years, he should have three times as many Aristocrat levels as Paladin levels.


Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber
Jason Rice wrote:
I agree with giving him Aristocrat. IMO, MOST rulers should only have NPC classes, because they rarely pick up a sword and do battle. However, since you described the king as a former adventurer, base his levels on how long he was an adventurer. If he was an adventurer for 5 years, and then a king for 15 years, he should have three times as many Aristocrat levels as Paladin levels.

Not necessarily. If you decide that the NPC is gaining a fairly static amount of XP per year, say 2k, his first 5 years gives him 4 levels of Paladin and the next 15 give him 3 levels of Aristocrat.


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber

why does he need to be stat-ed at all? It's not like your PC's are going to walk into an audience with the king and ask to see his character sheet. if you expect them to fight him at a later date then stat him up then. If you want your players to be in awe of him, you should do so with your flavor text description not his feats list.


The main reason to stat him up is so that I can know which paladin abilities and spells to describe when he's fighting alongside the PCs. You're right, there's no need to get super detailed, but I'd like to know what to describe. :)


Sorry, I meant Aristocrat not Diplomat. If you envision this king as an Aragorn-esque type, then they most definitely have more PC levels than NPC levels. How many paladin (or paladin/fighter depending on back story) levels depends on the power level of your game.

For example, Lord Parsall of Liberthane in the River Kingdoms is an aristocrat 2/fighter 2/paladin 4 and he is at least middle-aged if not older. By comparison, King Castruccio Irovetti of Pitax in the River Kingdoms is probably not even middle-aged and is high level (I won't give details as he is featured in one of the Adventure Paths). So the power level really depends on your preference and the king's specific back story.

But without knowing more of the back story of the king in question it is hard to give suggestions.


Kryptik wrote:
The main reason to stat him up is so that I can know which paladin abilities and spells to describe when he's fighting alongside the PCs. You're right, there's no need to get super detailed, but I'd like to know what to describe. :)

Just decide a paladin level, then add as many aristocrat levels as you like. Those levels will raise his BAB, hp, etc., quite a bit, and give him the social skills a king is likely to have.


Thanks, Dosgamer, for avoiding spoilers, as I'm playing that path now!

Without any other details, one option I might recommend is making him one level above the highest CR creature in the rival military. That means he can win against most any one to three critters thrown at him, personally, but will still be overwhelmed by too much and will desperately need his army.

Please note that this might not work - depending on your attacking army's creature kinds, it would make sense if there are things that are "too big" for even him, and working with entire military forces would be necessary to take on them too.

Deinol has some good ideas for general level guidelines. Also, check out the Game Mastery Guide - there's actually an NPC king suggestion! I don't recall what level it is off the top of my head, but I'll look in a bit.

In general, though using language like The Crusader indicated could instil a feeling of awe, and eighth level is pretty potent stuff in Golarion. If you want him really powerful, you might want to put him at eleventh or twelve level - that's where the game starts becoming weirdly powerful, and, with the appropriate force, he'd be able (by RAW), for example, to smash stones with his bare hands (say, in a fit of righteous fury). A tenth level paladin with power attack and a second level aristocrat should be able to pull this off, I think.

Even at this level, however, he'd still need help, depending on the kind and size of the army. For example, he wouldn't be able to endlessly slaughter a horde - his constitution would run out, eventually, he'd get fatigued and over-whelmed.

Here's some other ideas:

* One other way of making him notable or even mystical is to give him a few non-standard elements. For example, say his favored weapon is, let's just say an axe (or spear or scimitar or whatever). It doesn't have to be any game benefit, but if he has a favorite weapon that's not the typical "sword and board" style, that'd make him distinctive! Perhaps his armor has fur trim or lining from a beast he killed in his youth (feathers from the owlbear he killed with his bare hands in his youth, for example), or something similar.

* Scars are great to make him seem powerful - he's survived things that'd kill lesser men. They don't even have to be obvious or disfiguring scars. Using that same example of the owlbear, perhaps only his torso or back bears the tale-tell memories written in his flesh of when he saved the village from the rampaging beast. He's very handsome in the face, but when he changes from royal regalia to armor, all who're present can tell that he's taken on something terrible and survived.

* Perhaps he found the quarry his castle was made from himself. Maybe he, personally chiseled the cornerstone of the thing. It might even have been part of his adventuring career - perhaps there are legends that the holy stone he took has been made the cornerstone of the castle in order to ward an ancient evil. It could also be true or not.

Basically, use small elements to build him up much greater and weave his myth into the fabric of your story. That way, he'll seem real, powerful, and even mythical. It might even come as a shock that he doesn't use a sword and shield. It will also make him seem powerful and "real" if your players "know" the king is a "paladin" and, of course, his "shining blade pierced the heart of evil" in times past... that shining blade being, of course, his magic dagger that he always carries. Suddenly, he's a real person. Both larger than life and part of life at the same time. Not just a standard cardboard cut-out paladin-king.

Grand Lodge

Kryptik wrote:

Long story short, this king rules over a pretty successful kingdom, and is also the head of a powerful Paladin order. So, I thought I might want to give him Paladin levels in order to reflect this and the fact that he was a former adventurer.

As anyone living in Azure City can tell you, you don't need to be a Paladin to rule a city of them. In fact, Paladins may be less than suited for the job. However taking the Improved Paranoia feat can be a necessity for dealing with your fellow nobles though.


Well, I'm thinking that about mid-level is sort of the cutoff for the power level in previous eras, back when things were relatively peaceful. But, the forces of shadow have risen up again over the world, so who knows, things could progress beyond that level.

Practically speaking, I'd say this is going to be a pretty casual game, and I don't really know what to expect as far as how far it will go. So I'm thinking somewhere around mid level paladin with a few levels of Aristocrat might be optimal.

Shadow Lodge

1 person marked this as a favorite.

The following are the requirements to be a king:

1. Your father was a king.
2. Your father is now dead.
3. You were the oldest son.
3a. If you were not the oldest son, you are the oldest SURVIVING son.

Alternately, you can first gain control of an army and then conquer a nation and then declare yourself a king.


Welp, I just looked up the Game Mastery Guide and a king is suggested to be a 16th level Aristocrat, which roughly translates to a CR 14. A Queen, however, is only a 12th level aristocrat (CR 10) while a princess is an 8th level (CR 6). If you take the average of those (why not), you get about an 11 or 12 for hit dice. I'd pop it as a tenth level paladin and second level aristocrat.

Especially since in Pathfinder, you need but a single rank to gain the class-skill bonus... and that's really good. I won't publish all the stats (I think that's against the rules), although the Game Mastery Guide king could make a fairly good middle-or-old age paladin who would have rocked it back in the day.

Which begs a nifty thought - in addition to the king, you'll want to think about a queen or any other royal personages.

All that said, I'm not too big on the NPCs in the book - they all have a fairly high level, considering Golarion-esque world presumptions. Still, it might work out well.

Regardless, hope this all helps somewhat!
(Addendum - feel free to either steal or ignore my other ideas!)


The GMG levels struck me as a bit inflated, especially when it came to the aristocracy. A lvl 16 aristocrat is what I'd expect of a legendary leader like Charlemagne, someone who can practically run the country on his own. Plenty of kings have been less than stellar - in fact, most were mediocre, and the only thing that made them the kings in their court was that, as Kthulhu said, their dads had the job before them and they are the oldest surviving sons. A paladin 5/aristocrat 5 can certainly hold his own in most courts, and should be capable enough to get his way often enough. Levels of cavalier and bard (court bard, ideally) can work fine, too.


The Shaman wrote:
The GMG levels struck me as a bit inflated, especially when it came to the aristocracy. A lvl 16 aristocrat is what I'd expect of a legendary leader like Charlemagne, someone who can practically run the country on his own. Plenty of kings have been less than stellar - in fact, most were mediocre, and the only thing that made them the kings in their court was that, as Kthulhu said, their dads had the job before them and they are the oldest surviving sons. A paladin 5/aristocrat 5 can certainly hold his own in most courts, and should be capable enough to get his way often enough. Levels of cavalier and bard (court bard, ideally) can work fine, too.

I love that idea. Court bard + cavalier + battle herald = royal ruler, straight up and mighty in command of armies.

Also, again totally agreeing on the GMG levels - seriously a 16th level aristocrat. How? Even things like barmaids and inn keepers and village idiots* are kinds of multiclassed virtual power-houses.

*I don't actually recall the levels of this one... I'm still stunned that it's actually in there. To be fair, it has an interesting take/write-up, though.

Dark Archive

Keep in mind that he could have been great and powerful in his day, but the old or venerable modifier really take the punch out of a melee fighter (except when smiting evil, I suppose).


Do a Google search for "Aragorn was 5th level". It helps to deflate the need for powerful people to be high level.

But, for the question asked:
1. Does the king still have his paladin abilities, or did he forsake them to become king? Having the PCs hear that the king used to be able to [insert ability here], and it sure would be helpful now is sometimes better story than having him actually use the ability in question.

2. Have the king go against a CR 4 or 5 for a few rounds (like a troll), before the cry to rally to the king goes up and they swarm the enemy. The king doesn't even have to have killed it; the fact that he's willing to face that kind of threat solo speaks volumes for courage and ability (and toughness).

2B. The PCs don't even have to see the above combat round(s), just see the wounded king SMITE an enemy.

3. The time to show off the king's majesty isn't with the king himself; it's with what his followers say about him. Whether he has an aura of fearlessness or not, describing how his soldiers take confidence from his presence (and not asking the PCs to make morale saves when the king is nearby) speaks volumes.

4. I had more points, but it's nearly noon - I should have breakfast soon.


A king would also have lots of resources and support PCs can only dream of. Much of his power lies in what his followers bring to bear. He doesn't have to follow WBL rules, and is almost certain to have some friendly spellcasters and bodyguards ready to help him in battle or in court intrigues.

What he can do depends largely on what he can control or persuade, which is potentially a lot of people.


I recomend at least 3 lavels of Paladin for Aura of Courage. This gives a mechanical tie to the "Leader of Men" aspect of Kingship. If you need more power, Go to 5 levels and get the weapon bond. Why weapon? Well it gives you an obvious and everpresent prop for your npc. Even in court, he can keep a sword at hand, not so for a horse. The sword can be a relic of his adventuring, and be further enhanced by paladin's bond.

Plus the idea of a paldin king who eschews the usual raiment appeals to me. Forgoing the frivilous jeweled septer and baubles in favor of his own reliable blade.

Furthermore, I recomend a +2 bastard sword to best complete this image. A sword few can wield well, with a plain practical enchantment. Then it bursts into power when the king calls upon the paladin bond to add flaming.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Homebrew and House Rules / Trying to stat up a king... All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Homebrew and House Rules