I bought comics recently after quitting the hobby many, many years ago. I dabbled occasionally through those years, but never more than a few impulse "I was bored as I walked past a comic shop" books.
After reading Here Comes Daredevil #1-2, Captain America #1-2, and Punisher #1 yesterday, I've decided that Marvel still sucks.
Daredevil was one of my all time favorites as a kid (#158 was my first comic book btw) wasn't too bad (loved Mark Waid's Flash/Cap) but suffered form having an idiotic fill-in story in the very first issue of a walk through the city with Foggy. Umm...Why? Why didnt the debut issue have just one full-length story.
Issue #2 suffered from the obligatory "Marvel's <insert superhero> is hot right now, lets throw him into the book to try and sell more copies" thing. Captain America comes to throw down for a few pages which does nothing to advance the main story from #1.
Captain America #1-2 - Brubaker from what I'm told is very popular now, I dont see why from these issues. Story is ok, but another WWII character found still alive is sort of like cloning spider man again. Add a kid that opens dimensional gates/realities in WWII as the reason the other guy is still alive, and the cheese factor goes up.
Punisher #1 - One my least favorite characters but the best starting book of all 3. Great dark and gritty atmosphere, but suffers the "Image Comics" effect. Lots of art, little writing. I know comics are a graphic medium, but I prefer more dialogue.
I may or may not continue with DD/Punisher. Cap definately is out.
Daredevil was one of my all time favorites as a kid (#158 was my first comic book btw)
What a coincidence. One of my first was DD #160.
The only Marvel books I pick up are the Ultimate Universe titles, because they (a) have an overarching continuity, (b) have yet to spend roughly two pages in every issue recapping what each character's powers and motivations are (Seriously, how many times must we see Cyclops angst about how he can't ever take off his visor without killing people?), and (c) do not rely on "Wolverine/Gambit/Deadpool/X-21 is hot right now, let's put them in every book" to boost sales. The stories are mostly strong, the characters are a hell of a lot more believable than the mainstream Marvel continuity, and for the most part, Mr. Bendis appears to have a lot of sway over the lines - even when he's not writing them himself.
They're a good example of what a small, focused set of titles with a strong direction and a firm creative control can do for a continuity, and thus, I buy them.
Can't say it'll work for you, but for Marvel titles, I'm happy with my very, very small list of pulls every week.
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The only Marvel books I pick up are the Ultimate Universe titles, because they (a) have an overarching continuity, (b) have yet to spend roughly two pages in every issue recapping what each character's powers and motivations are (Seriously, how many times must we see Cyclops angst about how he can't ever take off his visor without killing people?), and (c) do not rely on "Wolverine/Gambit/Deadpool/X-21 is hot right now, let's put them in every book" to boost sales. The stories are mostly strong, the characters are a hell of a lot more believable than the mainstream Marvel continuity, and for the most part, Mr. Bendis appears to have a lot of sway over the lines - even when he's not writing them himself.
They're a good example of what a small, focused set of titles with a strong direction and a firm creative control can do for a continuity, and thus, I buy them.
Can't say it'll work for you, but for Marvel titles, I'm happy with my very, very small list of pulls every week.
I agree wholeheartedly with those statements. I tried to be a regular X-Reader a few years ago and every two months one of the series had to have some major event that screwed up every other line. Was very frustrating especially in New Mutants. I read the Ultimate X-Men line and my jump back into it with the new ultimates stuff.
Firstly, I don't understand where you guys are getting your information that the Marvel Universe has "re-booted"? The only thing that has really changed are the issue numbers (back to #1), otherwise, these are all continuing storylines.
DC on the other hand, has completely rebuilt their entire universe from the ground up, and have eliminated all previous continuity. That is a reboot, Marvel just did a re-numbering.
RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Well, the renumbering of Cap (almost) makes sense since Steve took up the shield again. I've read #1 and #2 and enjoyed them both.*
As to Brubaker's talent, he took an idea I absolutely hated "Bucky got better" and made a believer of me. So much so that I'm hoping that Fear Itself was a fake-out**. I don't agree with his political leanings, but damn the man can write.
As to Daredevil, sorry, never got interested in him. Of the X-books I only read New Mutants and X-factor (though I really think I'm going to add X-force after this arc, and Uncanny once we get the new roster.)***
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Firstly, I don't understand where you guys are getting your information that the Marvel Universe has "re-booted"? The only thing that has really changed are the issue numbers (back to #1), otherwise, these are all continuing storylines.
DC on the other hand, has completely rebuilt their entire universe from the ground up, and have eliminated all previous continuity. That is a reboot, Marvel just did a re-numbering.
Agreed and seconded. Dc did a complete reboot. Marvel just runumbered their books yet kept the stories anc characters the same.
"Marvel still sucks" you say... After reading five comics? Holy sweeping generalization, batman!
No matter what comics you're reading, you're going to have to sift through to find the really good stuff... Might I reccomend;
J Michael Straczynski's run on Thor - after Thor Disassembled. I've really enjoyed the entire thing so far.
Planet Hulk - great art and a fun story. The follow-up cross-over World War Hulk was pretty fun, too.
I personally enjoyed Siege quite a bit, and I'm enjoying the current crossover "Fear Itself".
As for the Re-boot - Marvel hasn't done that. DC seems to do it every two or three years however, and that's the big thing that turns me off from their titles.
My only gripe about Marvel was doing Fear Itself after claiming that the Heroic Age was going to return to the earlier heroic stories while moving away from the recent dark overtones.
The civilian death toll alone would have people calling for registration again, especially New York. Between Civil War, World War Hulk, and Fear Itself, I am surprised the city does not require every hero to carry insurance to cover damages and accidental lose of life.
Other then that, I have liked what I have read.
Umm..... Reread the thread title. "sorta mini-reboot". Renumbering a series from #1 is a reboot of that title IMHO.
And Holy sweeping generalization! With the exception of Planet Hulk, Marvel does suck. They have more RSEs than the Forgotten Realms, a billion clones, red hulks, grey hulks, green hulks, eleventy one books starting with X, etc. Yeah, they do suck IMHO. DC does the above on a smaller scale and with better writing. YMMV!
After that crappy Civil War, I know I'll never go back to Marvel.
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The civilian death toll alone would have people calling for registration again, especially New York. Between Civil War, World War Hulk, and Fear Itself, I am surprised the city does not require every hero to carry insurance to cover damages and accidental lose of life.
I read WW hulk when it was coming out, and havent read it since, so I could be wrong, BUT isnt one of the points that the people who dont want to see Hulk killed in WW Hulk despite him attacking the city, that he has never been at fault for a civilian casualty? I remember something about it being in the story, though cant remember who brought it up.
And Holy sweeping generalization! With the exception of Planet Hulk, Marvel does suck.Does anyone besides me find the irony in this?
You mean by Marvel tossing the Hulk into space and isolating him from the crap like civil war, or the single-handed destruction of the feel of the Avengers book by adding characters like Wolverine and Spiderman to the lineup, etc.
Planet Hulk was a temporary clean slate. A new supporting cast with a halfway decent story, before returning to Marvel's typical antics of WW Hulk, Red Hulk, etc.Yeah so Marvel still sucks. Planet Hulk while good, doesnt redeem Marvel in my eyes. For every decent Marvel story arc, there are multiple crappy arcs.
Btw* I love what they did to the Fantastic Four! [/Sarcasm]
Now there are two destroyed team books. "Nuff Said!"
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I must be the exception yet Civil War brought me back to Marvel. I just became sick and tired of the iconic feel of the characters in DC. No matter what happens to a character it never seems to affect him outside of a miniseries. No matter how many events they have ad no matter how often they swear that "this event will change the DCU as you know it" it never does. And I started to hate that. How can you connect with characters if nothing that happens to them in the DCU seems to affexc them long term. The average non-powered person in the street seesm to take everything in stride. Undead characters coming back to tear out hearts no complaints. Star City gets destroyed no complaints. No characters beyond superman and lois lane seem to have stable relationships. Black Canary & Green arrows marriage lasted what a year.
Marvel is not perfect by any means yet I can relate to Marvel so much more and their characters. If a character has something happen to hin/her in a big event it stays with them for awhile. Part of city gets levelled they call legislation against supers which would happen in real life. You also you have characters in steady realtionships.
Maybe with the reboot DC may draw me back again yet if it's the usual Iconic keeping the status quo comic universe at any cost I'm not interested.
And Holy sweeping generalization! With the exception of Planet Hulk, Marvel does suck.Does anyone besides me find the irony in this?
Yeah he seems pretty angry about marvel.
I must be the exception yet Civil War brought me back to Marvel. I just became sick and tired of the iconic feel of the characters in DC. No matter what happens to a character it never seems to affect him outside of a miniseries. No matter how many events they have ad no matter how often they swear that "this event will change the DCU as you know it" it never does. And I started to hate that. How can you connect with characters if nothing that happens to them in the DCU seems to affexc them long term. The average non-powered person in the street seesm to take everything in stride. Undead characters coming back to tear out hearts no complaints. Star City gets destroyed no complaints. No characters beyond superman and lois lane seem to have stable relationships. Black Canary & Green arrows marriage lasted what a year.
Marvel is not perfect by any means yet I can relate to Marvel so much more and their characters. If a character has something happen to hin/her in a big event it stays with them for awhile. Part of city gets levelled they call legislation against supers which would happen in real life. You also you have characters in steady realtionships.
Maybe with the reboot DC may draw me back again yet if it's the usual Iconic keeping the status quo comic universe at any cost I'm not interested.
No you're not alone - I enjoyed Civil War as well and it's what brought me back to the hobby after a long absence. DC hasn't really done it for me over the past few years but it's all about taste I suppose.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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Marvel is not perfect by any means yet I can relate to Marvel so much more and their characters. If a character has something happen to hin/her in a big event it stays with them for awhile. Part of city gets levelled they call legislation against supers which would happen in real life. You also you have characters in steady realtionships.
Maybe with the reboot DC may draw me back again yet if it's the usual Iconic keeping the status quo comic universe at any cost I'm not interested.
I do wonder how they're going to address Fear Itself. I mean Paris is effectively gone. Even if the effects wear off, the loss of life has got to be in the thousands. That's not counting New York, Washington, etc. San Fran got off easy, even with Magneto tossing Battleships around.
I do wonder how they're going to address Fear Itself. I mean Paris is effectively gone. Even if the effects wear off, the loss of life has got to be in the thousands. That's not counting New York, Washington, etc. San Fran got off easy, even with Magneto tossing Battleships around.Marvel is not perfect by any means yet I can relate to Marvel so much more and their characters. If a character has something happen to hin/her in a big event it stays with them for awhile. Part of city gets levelled they call legislation against supers which would happen in real life. You also you have characters in steady realtionships.
Maybe with the reboot DC may draw me back again yet if it's the usual Iconic keeping the status quo comic universe at any cost I'm not interested.
I'd almost think we're gonna see scarlet witch or franklin richards re-arrange reality again. I really kind of hope not, but that's where I'd lean. Maybe marvel will do the unexpected and just rebuild and move on without any major restructuring to get life back to normal, guess we'll find out.
Yeah he seems pretty angry about marvel.
Think what you will, but I don't nerd rage about Marvel. I've always considered Marvel to be lesser quality than DC from the writing/story perspective as well as the cheese factor. I vote with my wallet.
I'm glad you enjoyed Civil War, I was thinking of what the long term ramifications of the story will do the the Marvel universe (with the outing of secret identities, etc). To me, it seemed like a shock value, poorly thought out crossover with little to no consideration of the future. More like "omg! we are turning the Marvel universe on it's ear! This will sell like hotcakes!" followed by "Oops! Should we retcon?".
For example, Mary Jane and any of Peter Parker's friends/family should be hiding in a bunker for the forseeable future. It would only be a matter of time before a villain or three catch up with one or all of them to exact some revenge on Spidey by killing a loved one.
The team book example... Avengers always had its own feel. Granted they had some weird and crappy lineups but they still felt like the Avengers. Putting Spidey and Wolverine into the lineup because they are Marvel's most popular kind of kills the book for me. I like both of them, but I dont feel they really belong as Avengers. I dont mind Spidey/Wolvie as a guest star but Logan belongs with the X-Books. He's a loner most of the time, now hes hanging out with 2 different teams.
Im not going to go into the spidey/clone thing at all. Not sure whats going on with this Spider Island stuff (I only looked at the covers) but i'm pretty sure I wouldnt care for it.
Nerd Rage? No.
They suck for me so I'm not buying anymore.
Disclaimer* - Ive been a Marvel fan since for most of my life. I remember opening Daredevil #158, I remember running to a local newstand under a train station and buying X-Men #137, etc.
I remember the claremont X-Men, Byrne's awesome FF run, Miller's Daredevil, etc. Great books, fond memories. Marvel just doesnt have that kind of quality any more.
That said I'm trying to keep an open mind about DC's new 52. They are starting to look more like an Image Comics relaunch than a DC reboot. I'll give it a few more months.
I might just give up on all comics for good. :|
Ok, against better judgement I have picked up 3 new Marvel books today (all reboots). I still havent actually read these.
Incredible Hulk
Uncanny X-Men
Wolverine and the X-Men
The Hulk has me excited. I've been a semi-fan of Silvestri since his early X-Men days. Jason Aaron seems ok, don't really know him. Hope the FF gets a similar relaunch. If the Hulk is good and the FF gets a reboot, I may just keep these along with Daredevil and possibly the upcoming Defenders (if they stay with the occult threats primarily).
Now to the X-stuff.
Can someone tell me whats going on the the X-Worlds "Regenesis". I was hoping they were starting to consolidate the many X-Books into just 2-3 titles a month with a relaunch (2 main teams and a new mutant type). Looking through the books, it looks like they just rebooted the two main books. Are these 2 X-reboots going to be deeply tied to the other 6 or so books still going on? If so, I probably wont continue with these much further.
Some further reboots to come...
Avenging Spider-Man - Think spidey and his amazing friends just with Hulk, Wolverine, Spider Woman etc. Zero Interest from me.
The Defenders- This has potential as I'm a huge fan of the original series. Not crazy about uniformed heroes and who is the chick?
Any Marvel die-hards able to shed any light for me?
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Anyone else getting a civil war Iron man feel from Scotts side (ie no sympathy for them whatsoever?)Not so much here. But the cartoon Wolverine and the X-Men taught me all I need to know. They basically gave Scott and Logan a personality swap, but Scott is still seen as the bad guy. I think that in the eyes of many X-fans they could have loaded Cyclops up with all the right things and had Wolverine saying "kill all the flatscans" and "Apocalypse didn't go far enough" and still most of them would pick the guy with the claws.
Perhaps but to me it is just that they seem to have turned Cyclops into a complete hypocrit (I remember him basically telling charles Xavier he had no place in the X-men when they found out he had kept things from them but then a year or two later Scott is doing the exact same thing (In fact if you read some of the newer comics apparantly he has been doing it from near the start as well.)
Admitadly a lot of it is just down to poor writing (Another example is The beast who left the X-men after he learned that Scott had made a group who's job was to carry out black ops and kill people ((X-force) Only for him to join a group who's job it was to carry out Black ops and kill people ((Secret Avengers)
Admitadly a lot of it is just down to poor writing (Another example is The beast who left the X-men after he learned that Scott had made a group who's job was to carry out black ops and kill people ((X-force) Only for him to join a group who's job it was to carry out Black ops and kill people ((Secret Avengers)
This is because of the different views that different writers have on the characters, and the fact that there isn't really a decent continuity editor to keep track of characters motivations and actions.
Let's face it Quesada is the Michael Bay of the comic world and Bendis is bounced around from project to project so often that his particular genius isn't allowed to really build momentum (even The Ultimates fell apart after Ultimates 2)
The titles that are really solid tend to be sort of satellite projects with a dedicated editor and writer (Astonishing X-Men, Planet Hulk, Secret Wars)
Everything else is just Quesada pushing his latest hair brained money making scheme that makes fans cry and rage, or filler books to bridge or repair damage.
Thanks for the Regenesis breakdown Jason. :)
I read both and all I can do is scratch my head and wonder who the frak is running the show at Marvel. The X-Books are officially a whole new animal to me. With main characters acting so far from the norm, there is nothing salvageable,imho of course. There is just no re-entry point (even with the reboot) to the X-verse. I'm giving up.
Hulk on the other hand was passable after a brief "wtf is the Hulk doing with Mole Man's people?". The last big Hulk stories that I read were the awesome Planet Hulk and the mediocre World War Hulk. Silvestri's visuals for this book were great btw.
Ill pick up a few more Hulks and try and find 3 and 4 of Daredevil, and pray that the Defenders isnt a bust.
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Here's my favorite Marvel titles at the moment:
1. Rick Remender's Venom is probably the best book from the House of Ideas right now, though. Incredible action, suspense, character drama - this one has it all.
2. Remender's other book, X-Force deserves all the praise it gets. I've felt alienated from the X-books for years, but this has proven to be a truly epic undertaking. Highly recommended.
3. Dragged down by bad art, Fred Van Lente and Greg Pak's Herc is still one of the absolute best comics on the market today. More humor and humanity than five other Marvel books put together, this has been a great series.
4. To understand Mark Waid's Daredevil, one has to consider what has come before. Over the last few decades DD has been a very dark book, with one writer after another riffing off of Frank Miller's work. As a longtime DD reader, I found this a surprising bit of fresh air, and have high hopes for Waid's run.
5. Dan Slott's Amazing Spider-Man has been a little uneven in quality, but when it works the book truly sings. Although the Spider-Man books have generally been pretty bad since the early '90s, they've been revitalized over the last couple years and a really worth taking a look at.
6. Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning's Heroes/Villains For Hire probably won't last for much longer, but has been a blast so far. A tight central premise allows for team-ups with a variety of unexpected guest stars. DnA wrote a lot of amazing material for Marvel's cosmic books over the last few years, so it's nice to see them get an opportunity to play in a different sandbox.
7. Christos Gage's Avengers Academy started strong, had a slump, but may be back on the upswing. This had a lot of promise to be a great Marvel teen book, and I still think it could recover.
8. Jeff Parker's Hulk has turned out to be a fun thriller and has actually made me enjoy a book with Red Hulk in it, something that I didn't believe possible.
9. Although it doesn't look like he'll be staying on the book for very long, Warren Ellis has taken his signature "big ideas" to the Secret Avengers to make one of the wildest adventure books of recent memory.
10. DnA also have taken over New Mutants recently, and it's nice that they have a stated goal of cleaning up loose plot threads, something that the X-books have accumulated far too many of over the last decade.
Silvestri's Hulk is decent. The story arc needs better pacing.
Waid's Daredevil is soso (His Cap and Flash were better) but I have hope. I'd like to see Black Widow show up.
The Defenders first story arc doesnt grab me. The lineup looks ok but I already fear for the longevity of this reboot. I loved the original Defenders book as a kid, hopefully they can rekindle some of that.
Meh, dropped the Hulk and the Defenders. The only decent marvel book atm is Daredevil (ymmv).
I am sooooooooooo disappointed with the Defenders. It feels like it's been scripted for kids. Daredevil is only at #7 or so and has already had 2 guest stars. Cap and now a Spiderman crossover. Doesnt look good.
What about avengers academy?
Ive been steering clear of Marvel team books lately because of my latest attempt at the X-Men reboot. There seems to be a boatload of Avengers books as of late which reminds me of the bazillion books with the letter "X" in them, now they have lots of books beginning with the letter "A" with seemingly no new jumping on point.
Also, the Avengers have become pretty unrecognizable to me with their new lineup including Spiderman and Wolverine.
Fair enough. But you're missing some good shiznit in Avengers Academy. Still, we disagree on Batwing, so our tastes might be different.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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I've read rumblings that the AvX thing will result in Wanda + Phoenix Force w/o a host (So far, though we've 6 potentital hosts on Earth I know of (Rachel, three Cuckoos, Quinten Quire and of course Hope, seven if you count that Iron Fist cover.)) = Marvel Flashpoint. More rumors and fear than anything so far.*
I've seen the previews of Cable vs Avengers. Gods, Loeb writing hurts the brain. "I'm Cable, I should be able to talk this out with Dad, but I'm going to attack the Avengers instead. I'm going to be able to take out Cap, Iron Man and the Falcon easily, but my intel is going to be completely wrong on the Red Hulk. Because Loeb created him and made him so awesome, but he's been being jobbed by everyone since then. Oh, and no, there's been no character development."
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I'm pure DC now. Such as it is...
Same except for Daredevil. Civil War was pretty much the end of Marvel for me, the thought of Disney controlling it doesn't fill me with happiness either. YMMV.
Give it time.
I said the same with WotC taking the reins where TSR left off. Look how that turned out. :P