In looking through the CMD rules, I just noticed that untyped bonuses don't help you.
Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMD when resisting specific maneuvers. A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD.
This means fighting defensively (a single attack AC bonus is untyped, but a full attack grants a dodge bonus???), using a defending weapon, etc. don't add to your CMD. Is this right, or am I missing something? Normally untyped bonuses are preferable, so this has me confused.
In looking through the CMD rules, I just noticed that untyped bonuses don't help you.
Some feats and abilities grant a bonus to your CMD when resisting specific maneuvers. A creature can also add any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC to its CMD. Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD.This means fighting defensively (a single attack AC bonus is untyped, but a full attack grants a dodge bonus???), using a defending weapon, etc. don't add to your CMD. Is this right, or am I missing something? Normally untyped bonuses are preferable, so this has me confused.
It appears to be the case of missed word. Fighting defensively is mentioned to grant dodge bonus in two places: with full-round action and in Acrobatic skill description while it grants untyped bonus in one place only: with standard action.
EDIT: I checked the 3.5 srd. Fighting defensively with standard action granted dodge bonus to AC. There really was no reason to change it to untyped so it have to be missed word during the copy/paste process.
It appears to be the case of missed word. Fighting defensively is mentioned to grant dodge bonus in two places: with full-round action and in Acrobatic skill description while it grants untyped bonus in one place only: with standard action.
Looks like a good case to do the sensible thing and treat fighting defensively as a standard action as granting a dodge bonus.
I think a defending weapon helps AC, touch AC, and flat footed AC. Kinda surprised it doesn't help CMD. Is that correct?
The intent of the rule is clearly to disallow armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses, and allow everything else. This is just an error resulting from trying to list the dozen things it includes instead of the three it excludes.
RAW: doesn't work
RAI: worksAny reasonable DM shouldn't have a problem going with RAI here.
I agree. Just wanted to see if I overlooked something obvious and RAW should have worked too.
Only other untyped AC bonus I could find in my limited searching was The Shadowstaff (artifact). Everything else is typed, although I'm not sure if a defending weapon is untyped, or "enhancement" for the AC bonus type.
Only other untyped AC bonus I could find in my limited searching was The Shadowstaff (artifact). Everything else is typed, although I'm not sure if a defending weapon is untyped, or "enhancement" for the AC bonus type.
If it was an enhancement bonus it wouldn't stack with other enhancement bonus such as magical armor. The core rulebook calls it "a bonus that stacks with all others." That sure sounds like an untyped bonus.
If it was an enhancement bonus it wouldn't stack with other enhancement bonus such as magical armor. The core rulebook calls it "a bonus that stacks with all others." That sure sounds like an untyped bonus.
Makes sense.
Here's a strange corner case. How would you treat it if someone declared the AC bonus by readying an action to attack if someone came near?
The sword may or may not get swung, although the sword is being wielded with an attack in mind.
I see both sides, but it makes it an easy way to activate the bonus if you've got no use for the standard action that round.
If it was an enhancement bonus it wouldn't stack with other enhancement bonus such as magical armor. The core rulebook calls it "a bonus that stacks with all others." That sure sounds like an untyped bonus.Makes sense.
Here's a strange corner case. How would you treat it if someone declared the AC bonus by readying an action to attack if someone came near?
The sword may or may not get swung, although the sword is being wielded with an attack in mind.
I see both sides, but it makes it an easy way to activate the bonus if you've got no use for the standard action that round.
I would allow it. You're giving up potential enhancement bonus and a standard action to claim defending. It beats the cheesy 'I attack the air in front of me' routine (those invisible grues are everywhere I tell you). And in most cases you'd be better served by using total defense, although this option would allow attacks of opportunity.
I would allow it. You're giving up potential enhancement bonus and a standard action to claim defending. It beats the cheesy 'I attack the air in front of me' routine (those invisible grues are everywhere I tell you). And in most cases you'd be better served by using total defense, although this option would allow attacks of opportunity.
Thanks for the perspective. Our GM ruled it differently, but either view is acceptable to me.
I would allow it. You're giving up potential enhancement bonus and a standard action to claim defending. It beats the cheesy 'I attack the air in front of me' routine (those invisible grues are everywhere I tell you). And in most cases you'd be better served by using total defense, although this option would allow attacks of opportunity.
Since I can't do a readied action, I may opt to attack an ally using non-lethal damage instead. Fighting defensively + sword bonus > total defense, and it keeps me close to the party (I'm the party healer). I'm also not going to hurt the PC (low str, low bab, non-prof, fight defensively, non-lethal = -7 to hit for 1d8-2).
I was trying to figure out the game mechanics if I attack a player even if tell them in game that I may do so.
My $0.02 is that for the round, I am no longer that player's ally. I'm really doing my best to hit them (in a very specific way). I'm not the ally of the bad guys either, but I guess I'd qualify for flanking, so I'd need to be careful. I think I'd remain the ally of the rest of the group though. The next round, I become the ally of that PC again, unless I attack again.
Sound about right?
Also, if you use the full bonus of a sword for AC, it should still be +1 to hit, because of it being masterwork, right?
If it was an enhancement bonus it wouldn't stack with other enhancement bonus such as magical armor. The core rulebook calls it "a bonus that stacks with all others." That sure sounds like an untyped bonus.
It's actually more complicated than that for enhancement bonuses to AC. There's 3 ways to add an an enhancement bonus to AC. It can be added to the armor bonus (like with +5 plate) the shield bonus (like a +5 shield) or directly to your AC (Can't think of an item that does this, but in theory, you can). And bonuses do stack as long as they are from different ways of adding them. (So if you have a +5 armor, +5 shield and amulet of enhancement bonus +4, they all stack for a total of +14, in additoin to whatever other AC bonuses you have.)
