Hey guys,
I haven't posted at all really but I've spent lots of hours reading other posts and I'm looking for some suggestions about a tri-spec monk/fighter/alchemist. I'll give you a some details..
My group has been playing pathfinder since the core rulebook came out (use to be 4E) so I'm very familiar with pathfinder, though not an expert yet! It is a second part homebrew campaign.
The character has to be 3 classes, minimum starting level is either level 4 or 5. The Monk will be the sub-class "Maneuver Master" and possibly the dominant level, the Fighter will be the sub-class "Brawler" (mainly taking fighter levels for the extra feats and combat maneuver abilites of the brawler class), the Alchemist will be the sub-class "Vivisectionist" (no bombs, but still has mutagens and gains sneak attack ability). Maybe I should do rogue instead of alchemist lol. Stat selection will most likely be 25 point buy. My original intentions of the character is an unarmed, move around the battlefield, grapple, trip, etc.. basically not depending on his low BAB to hit anything with his fists but to continually use combat maneuvers to handle enemys. I think its either the brawler sub-class or the maneuver master that will give the monk the ability to sneak attack while grappling someone, main reason I'm chosing this path.
Ok, so my main question is.. stat placement, which order would you place stats? Monks are usually wisdom, str or dex based, fighter is usually str and con, alchemist is int based so I've got to get everything but charisma up to good levels. Feats will all be combat maneuver based such as grapple, trip, disarm, bullrush.. improved, greater etc.. plus some of the new feats from ultimate combat.
I plan on leveling this character like this..
1. Monk
2. Monk
3. Fighter
4. Alchemist
5. Monk
6. Monk
7. Fighter
8. Alchemist
And repeats till 20..
Any other input is appreciated, perhaps my leveling idea should be fighter dominant, use rogue instead of alchemist? Or perhaps every level just alternate the 3 classes?
Thank you in advance!
Strange rules! What if someone wants to be a wizard? Seems like they'd be unfairly penalized!
Anyways, I would recommend not going full alchemist. Even Int 12 would be enough to get 2nd level extracts. Focus mainly on mutagen enhancing discoveries such as Feral Mutagen.
Make sure to be a halfelf! Get two favored class bonuses!
I'd also recommend that you just have a one level dip as your third class. Maybe an Urban Barbarian? Or any other full BAB class. Samurai could be interesting!
Thank you for the input guys, I was pretty much just using the alchemist class for the benefits of the mutagens and that Vivisectionist sub-class gives sneak attack progression like the rogue. I've been trying to weigh the benefits of using the alchemist class vs rogue class (Higher skill point progression). I'm starting to think that the characters higher skills specifically stealth, acrobatics, climb, swim, maybe even UMD would help out more with the style of play I'm thinking about (unarmed grappler brawler on enemy casters/archer types) vs a 10 minute+ buff to str or dex that limited use per day?
I just want to get it somewhat right the first time and not be like... oh, I should have done that last level! lol
One benefit of taking rogue instead of alchemist might be that I would have 2 potential dump stats (int, leave at 10 and charisma, drop to 9 or even 8).
So thinking maybe Monk/Fighter/Rogue or Monk/Fighter/Alchemist, definately a half-elf though for the dual favored class bonus and the +2 stat going into either wisdom or dex.
If I went the Monk/Fighter/Rogue path I probably will have the fighter the dipping level, at least for 2 levels to get 2 bonus feats. Keep monk level the highest with rogue 1 level lower.
If I went the Monk/Fighter/Alchemist path I would do the same except have alchemist the dipping level just enough to get 2nd level of extracts like mentioned in previous response.
I forgot to mention earlier that this character is for a campaign with a party of 6. The requirements for the campaign as mentioned in the first post will make it a low power high utility party with no restrictions on classes currently available in pathfinder (no gunslingers though). Basic races plus Aasimar, Goliath and Tiefling.
Thanks!
Thank you for the input guys, I was pretty much just using the alchemist class for the benefits of the mutagens and that Vivisectionist sub-class gives sneak attack progression like the rogue. I've been trying to weigh the benefits of using the alchemist class vs rogue class (Higher skill point progression). I'm starting to think that the characters higher skills specifically stealth, acrobatics, climb, swim, maybe even UMD would help out more with the style of play I'm thinking about (unarmed grappler brawler on enemy casters/archer types) vs a 10 minute+ buff to str or dex that limited use per day?
I just want to get it somewhat right the first time and not be like... oh, I should have done that last level! lol
One benefit of taking rogue instead of alchemist might be that I would have 2 potential dump stats (int, leave at 10 and charisma, drop to 9 or even 8).
So thinking maybe Monk/Fighter/Rogue or Monk/Fighter/Alchemist, definately a half-elf though for the dual favored class bonus and the +2 stat going into either wisdom or dex.
If I went the Monk/Fighter/Rogue path I probably will have the fighter the dipping level, at least for 2 levels to get 2 bonus feats. Keep monk level the highest with rogue 1 level lower.
If I went the Monk/Fighter/Alchemist path I would do the same except have alchemist the dipping level just enough to get 2nd level of extracts like mentioned in previous response.
I forgot to mention earlier that this character is for a campaign with a party of 6. The requirements for the campaign as mentioned in the first post will make it a low power high utility party with no restrictions on classes currently available in pathfinder (no gunslingers though). Basic races plus Aasimar, Goliath and Tiefling.
Thanks!
I am not quite sure why you want rogue/alchemist in there - your sneak attack ist going to be very low, rather insignificant. Monk is a cool base class, and your maneuver theme also is very interesting :-) I would have another suggestion for your 3 base combination:
Go for monk (maneuver master) 2 / sorcerer (empyreal) 1/ inquisitor 1. As a trait select the magical knack (sorcerer) trait and another one of yours.You gain and can do the following with that:
- Wisdom becomes your primary stat of importance. It boosts your AC (monk), sorcerer and inquisitor spells and DCs which remain acceptable that way. Then you can distribute the rest to str, con, dex, int, cha (that order).
- You can use wands and scrolls very easily, so you have almost every option available to you this way.
- Judgement will provide you with a nice punch to use 1/day.
- The inquisitor domain can be used to increase your base speed even further (travel domain), get and give free rerolls (luck domain) etc. A feat like domain strike (ultimate combat) might also be very interesting then. Lots of options for you.
- Feats like defensive maneuver training will make you hard to grapple, trip etc. A must-have feat IMO.
- With a CL of three you can even take craft wondrous item. Might be cool for you to create your own custom items.
- You can develop this kind of character into almost any direction. A disadvantage is the drop in BAB which you would have with your above combination as well, though. Instead of inquisitor you could also choose ranger (guide) then.
Maybe it's not your thing, but maybe it is :-P
Awesome ideas Sangalor, I appreciate the info.. one thing about what you mentioned is that Wisdom will be the primary stat of importance with the monk/sorcerer/inquisitor combo but sorcerers use charisma for their spells now. BAB really isn't a concern for this character as most if not all attacks will be combat maneuver related and he will be taking the defensive combat training to use his total HD instead of BAB.
I didn't find any mention of a Empyreal Sorcerer? I probably just missed it though.
Thanks!
Awesome ideas Sangalor, I appreciate the info.. one thing about what you mentioned is that Wisdom will be the primary stat of importance with the monk/sorcerer/inquisitor combo but sorcerers use charisma for their spells now. BAB really isn't a concern for this character as most if not all attacks will be combat maneuver related and he will be taking the defensive combat training to use his total HD instead of BAB.
I didn't find any mention of a Empyreal Sorcerer? I probably just missed it though.
Thanks!
Cancel that about not finding Empyreal Sorcerer lol, I use Hero Lab for all my character building and didn't realize it was a new bloodline. lol
Cancel that about not finding Empyreal Sorcerer lol, I use Hero Lab for all my character building and didn't realize it was a new bloodline. lolAwesome ideas Sangalor, I appreciate the info.. one thing about what you mentioned is that Wisdom will be the primary stat of importance with the monk/sorcerer/inquisitor combo but sorcerers use charisma for their spells now. BAB really isn't a concern for this character as most if not all attacks will be combat maneuver related and he will be taking the defensive combat training to use his total HD instead of BAB.
I didn't find any mention of a Empyreal Sorcerer? I probably just missed it though.
Thanks!
Exactly. That bloodline is a variant of the celestial and uses wisdom for casting. Awesome for multiclassing :-)
btw, you could go for zen archer and/or druid in the above combinations as well... Hm, so many options... See you, off to work :-)
Hey guys,
I just wanted to run by what I decided to make...
Race is Dhampir and starting level is 4, must be a tri-spec character.
Original stats given to us that were rolled by the DM are:
10, 10, 11, 14, 14, 15
Stat placement after racial and 1 stat increase are:
STR: 11
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 16
CHA: 12
Level 2 Monk (Maneuver Master) / Level 1 Cleric (Crusader) / Level 1 Sorcerer (Wildblooded, Empyreal)
Character will be mainly a monk grappler/brawler type, vow of celibecy (for the challenge of it). Cleric with the rune domain and channel negative energy for healing since the dhampir is healed by it. Sorcerer (Empyreal) for the AC buffs since monks wear no armor.
Current feats at level 4 are:
Monk Bonus Feats: Improved Grapple, Dodge
Cleric Bonus Feat: Scribe Scrolls (bonus), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Trained: Toughness, Agile Maneuvers
I did use the magical knack trait, just not sure if I should boost cleric or sorcerer level? I'm thinking sorcerer as it will add 2 caster levels to the shield/mage armor timers?
Opinions are welcome! The campaign starts this tuesday.
Thanks!
Hey guys,
I just wanted to run by what I decided to make...
Race is Dhampir and starting level is 4, must be a tri-spec character.
Original stats given to us that were rolled by the DM are:
10, 10, 11, 14, 14, 15
Stat placement after racial and 1 stat increase are:
STR: 11
DEX: 16
CON: 12
INT: 10
WIS: 16
CHA: 12Level 2 Monk (Maneuver Master) / Level 1 Cleric (Crusader) / Level 1 Sorcerer (Wildblooded, Empyreal)
Character will be mainly a monk grappler/brawler type, vow of celibecy (for the challenge of it). Cleric with the rune domain and channel negative energy for healing since the dhampir is healed by it. Sorcerer (Empyreal) for the AC buffs since monks wear no armor.
Current feats at level 4 are:
Monk Bonus Feats: Improved Grapple, Dodge
Cleric Bonus Feat: Scribe Scrolls (bonus), Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Trained: Toughness, Agile ManeuversI did use the magical knack trait, just not sure if I should boost cleric or sorcerer level? I'm thinking sorcerer as it will add 2 caster levels to the shield/mage armor timers?
Opinions are welcome! The campaign starts this tuesday.
Thanks!
Looks nice :-)
What are the modfiers of the Dhampir? What's your alignment? Why did you choose it? Just interested :-)
I would have the magical knack trait apply to the cleric spells. Since you have the complete spell list available and can thus make more use of all those 1st level spells.
What are your sorcerer spells - sounds like shield and mage armor? Mage armor would certainly work well, but you could also get a wand for it. Same for shield - at this level they are very short-term buffs.
If AC boosts are the primary use for your sorcerer, you might want to use the magical knack trait for them. Cantrips are an important choice for your sorcerer...
My vote would go to the cleric :-)
What is your deity? Why did you choose the rune domain?
What you could do btw is to move those 11 from str to int and choose wizard instead. After some time you could have all 1st level spells in your spellbook. This way you could also gain scribe scroll as wizard bonus feat, go normal cleric and choose a second domain.
For completeness sake: You did not mention eschew materials for your sorcerer.
Interesting character with lots of possibly surprising options :-P
To answer your questions:
Vampire like character and one rule I left out that the DM is using is that the whole party has to play a female character.
1. Dhampir Characters:
Dhampirs are defined by class levels—they don’t possess racial Hit Dice. Dhampirs are fast and seductive, but closer to death than most mortals. All dhampirs have the following racial traits.
•+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Constitution:
•Senses: Low-light vision and darkvision 60 feet.
•Manipulative: +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Perception.
•Undead Resistance: Dhampirs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and mind-affecting effects.
•Light Sensitivity: Dhampires are dazzled in areas of bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
"Dazzled gives you a -1 to attack and -1 to perception (not a big deal considering this character is CMB dependant."
•Negative Energy Affinity: Dhampires are alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it.
•Spell-Like Ability: A dhampir can use detect undead three times per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability equals the dhampir’s class level.
•Resist Level Drain: A dhampir takes no penalties from energy draining effects, though he can still be killed if he accrues more negative levels then he has Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels a dhampir takes are removed without the need for an additional saving throw.
•Languages: Dhampirs begin play speaking Common. Those with high Intelligence can choose any language as a bonus language (except druidic and other secret languages).
2. Alignment is Lawful Neutral (monk requires any lawful)
I took the sorcerer class as you suggested with the Empyreal bloodline which helps keep all 3 classes wisdom based, except for channeling negative energy which is charisma based. Being a Dhampir, she can heal herself since taking the vow of celibecy she won't be getting any help from the group.
3. Deity is Irori, monk deity with unarmed strike as favored weapon.
4. I actually changed the cleric sub-class to separatist and took the Rune domain and Exploration domain. Rune domain for the ability to place rune traps that deal 1d6 energy damage of my choice, and the exploration domain for the ability to see through doors or walls as if using the clairvoyance spell. I may change the rune domain since 1d6 damage later in levels isn't much.
The sorcerer got eschew materials as well as a bonus feat. I actually may consider using wands like you mentioned and perhaps removing sorcerer and adding a melee class..
I'm still kinda tweaking this character so nothing is set in stone until game time!
To answer your questions:
Vampire like character and one rule I left out that the DM is using is that the whole party has to play a female character.
1. Dhampir Characters:
Dhampirs are defined by class levels—they don’t possess racial Hit Dice. Dhampirs are fast and seductive, but closer to death than most mortals. All dhampirs have the following racial traits.
•+2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, –2 Constitution:
•Senses: Low-light vision and darkvision 60 feet.
•Manipulative: +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Perception.
•Undead Resistance: Dhampirs gain a +2 racial bonus on saving throws against disease and mind-affecting effects.
•Light Sensitivity: Dhampires are dazzled in areas of bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
"Dazzled gives you a -1 to attack and -1 to perception (not a big deal considering this character is CMB dependant."
•Negative Energy Affinity: Dhampires are alive, but reacts to positive and negative energy as if it were undead—positive energy harms it, negative energy heals it.
•Spell-Like Ability: A dhampir can use detect undead three times per day as a spell-like ability. The caster level for this ability equals the dhampir’s class level.
•Resist Level Drain: A dhampir takes no penalties from energy draining effects, though he can still be killed if he accrues more negative levels then he has Hit Dice. After 24 hours, any negative levels a dhampir takes are removed without the need for an additional saving throw.
•Languages: Dhampirs begin play speaking Common. Those with high Intelligence can choose any language as a bonus language (except druidic and other secret languages).
2. Alignment is Lawful Neutral (monk requires any lawful)
I took the sorcerer class as you suggested with the Empyreal bloodline which helps keep all 3 classes wisdom based, except for channeling negative energy which is charisma based. Being a Dhampir, she can heal herself since taking the vow of celibecy she won't be getting any help from the group.
3....
Cool, thanks for all the information :-)
I still think the combination you took is quite cool. The big advantage of keeping the sorcerer is that you can use arcane wands, scrolls etc. without use magic device checks.
Have you decided on some kind of theme, i.e. what will be special about your character (ideas like "Van Helsing" or such...)? This might give some further ideas as to what classes, feats and spells you should pick :-)
If you want a more melee focused class, ranger (guide archetype) or inquisitor are great contenders IMO :-)
I'm not sure about a theme yet, the DM needs to give us some backstory for the campaign and once we have that info he will give us till next session to provide a character bio. I just know how I want the character played, trying to get away from the traditional attacks and using combat maneuvers for crowd control of casters/archers.
I think I will stick with the sorcerer as you mentioned before it will be more handy to use wands of shield and mage armor without having to use UMD skill. Plus, those wands only cost 750 gp each for 50 charges. Plus that will free up spell slots for something else if I use wands for shield buffs.
I'm not sure about a theme yet, the DM needs to give us some backstory for the campaign and once we have that info he will give us till next session to provide a character bio. I just know how I want the character played, trying to get away from the traditional attacks and using combat maneuvers for crowd control of casters/archers.
I think I will stick with the sorcerer as you mentioned before it will be more handy to use wands of shield and mage armor without having to use UMD skill. Plus, those wands only cost 750 gp each for 50 charges. Plus that will free up spell slots for something else if I use wands for shield buffs.
Regarding the sorcerer spells, you could choose
lvl - spell1 - true strike
1 - grease
0 - detect magic
0 - read magic
0 - spark
0 - message
You can use true strike not only for ordinary attack roles, but they also add to your combat maneuver bonus. So you could grapple/trip/... even giants very early in the game.
Grease has a 1 minute duration. With your wisdom the DC will be decent, and you can use it to effectively trip opponents, disarm them (grease their weapon) or help yourself or someone else escape (grease them for bonus on escape artist). This would fit well with your theme.
Detect magic and read magic allow you to use arcane and divine scrolls at leisure (up to sixth level with your current score) without putting ranks into spellcraft.
Spark is cool to start campfires or do some other minor tricks. Message helps you while scouting ahead.
As for domains: Exploration is a solid choice and will help you prepare accordingly (you can essentially scry what's on the other side of the door - cool). Rune domain on the other hand does not really seem worthwhile to me. Air domain would achieve a similar result, but you could at least shoot a lightning arc at them; matter of taste. Knowledge domain on the other hand would greatly expands your knowledge checks. Repose domain provides you with the opportunity to stagger opponents or even make them fall asleep - pretty powerful. That would probably my choice, you could style it as the "succubus-style caress of a dhampir" or something ;-P
Why did you chose separatist btw? I would stick with normal cleric, pick two domains and not select a deity, that's an option after all...
And yes, wands will be really cheap and useful: cure light wounds, shield, mage armor, endure elements, ... There are many great level 1 & 0 spells on the cleric and sorcerer spell lists :-)
Thinking about it I would suggest you change your stat assignment to be more effective:
Str 14 = 14
Dex 14 +2 = 16
Con 11 -2 = 9
Int 10 = 10
Wis 15 +1 = 16
Cha 10 +2 = 12
The -1 HP hurts, but you can even it out with favored class bonus HP and toughness. Your saves are great anyway, so there should not be a problem. You will be much better at performing CMBs this way, and your CMD will also be better.
If you do not like this, I would suggest exchanging your DEX and STR above. Your CMD will remain the same, but your CMB will improve a lot. And the loss of AC should be overcompensated by spells anyway.
It will be interesting to see the full sheet of this character with all abilities in the end. I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-P
I'm not sure about a theme yet, the DM needs to give us some backstory for the campaign and once we have that info he will give us till next session to provide a character bio. I just know how I want the character played, trying to get away from the traditional attacks and using combat maneuvers for crowd control of casters/archers.
I think I will stick with the sorcerer as you mentioned before it will be more handy to use wands of shield and mage armor without having to use UMD skill. Plus, those wands only cost 750 gp each for 50 charges. Plus that will free up spell slots for something else if I use wands for shield buffs.
Regarding the sorcerer spells, you could choose
lvl - spell
1 - true strike
1 - grease
0 - detect magic
0 - read magic
0 - spark
0 - message
You can use true strike not only for ordinary attack roles, but they also add to your combat maneuver bonus. So you could grapple/trip/... even giants very early in the game.
Grease has a 1 minute duration. With your wisdom the DC will be decent, and you can use it to effectively trip opponents, disarm them (grease their weapon) or help yourself or someone else escape (grease them for bonus on escape artist). This would fit well with your theme.Detect magic and read magic allow you to use arcane and divine scrolls at leisure (up to sixth level with your current score) without putting ranks into spellcraft.
Spark is cool to start campfires or do some other minor tricks. Message helps you while scouting ahead.As for domains: Exploration is a solid choice and will help you prepare accordingly (you can essentially scry what's on the other side of the door - cool). Rune domain on the other hand does not really seem worthwhile to me. Air domain would achieve a similar result, but you could at least shoot a lightning arc at them; matter of taste. Knowledge domain on the other hand would greatly expands your knowledge checks. Repose domain provides you with the opportunity to stagger opponents or even make them...
I actually never thought of using no deity, that would certainly help with not being so restricted for domain choices. I currently don't have the ultimate combat book but I use hero lab to create and play my characters and I have all the books including ultimate combat. There are a lot of domains to choose from and the program is not too descriptive which makes it hard to pick one since you have to choose the domain and then see what changes were added to the character.
I will keep the exploration domain but will have to take the time to thoroughly go through the other domains and pick a good match for my intended play style. I do like your idea though and will just purchase wands for some spells, we are allowed 6,000 gp to start with so buying 2-4 wands won't be a problem.
Why did I choose separatist? Don't know to be honest lol.. I figured sub-classing the other classes so might as well do all three.
Thinking about it I would suggest you change your stat assignment to be more effective:
Str 14 = 14
Dex 14 +2 = 16
Con 11 -2 = 9
Int 10 = 10
Wis 15 +1 = 16
Cha 10 +2 = 12
The -1 HP hurts, but you can even it out with favored class bonus HP and toughness. Your saves are great anyway, so there should not be a problem. You will be much better at performing CMBs this way, and your CMD will also be better.
If you do not like this, I would suggest exchanging your DEX and STR above. Your CMD will remain the same, but your CMB will improve a lot. And the loss of AC should be overcompensated by spells anyway.It will be interesting to see the full sheet of this character with all abilities in the end. I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-P
I've taken Agile Maneuvers feat which allows you to add your DEX bonus to CMB instead of STR.
Thinking about it I would suggest you change your stat assignment to be more effective:
Str 14 = 14
Dex 14 +2 = 16
Con 11 -2 = 9
Int 10 = 10
Wis 15 +1 = 16
Cha 10 +2 = 12
The -1 HP hurts, but you can even it out with favored class bonus HP and toughness. Your saves are great anyway, so there should not be a problem. You will be much better at performing CMBs this way, and your CMD will also be better.
If you do not like this, I would suggest exchanging your DEX and STR above. Your CMD will remain the same, but your CMB will improve a lot. And the loss of AC should be overcompensated by spells anyway.It will be interesting to see the full sheet of this character with all abilities in the end. I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-P
I've taken Agile Maneuvers feat which allows you to add your DEX bonus to CMB instead of STR.
Ah, missed that, my bad. Your CMD will not profit from it, though, so if that's no issue, you're fine :-)
I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-P
Now, now. Let's not assume the DM is a jerk. Asking players to build something that they normally would never consider can lead to memorable and unexpected outcomes. I fully expect that this party will generate some combinations that will outperform, while others will not. Such a multi-class requirement is an interesting twist that may or may not work. Still fun.
I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-PNow, now. Let's not assume the DM is a jerk. Asking players to build something that they normally would never consider can lead to memorable and unexpected outcomes. I fully expect that this party will generate some combinations that will outperform, while others will not. Such a multi-class requirement is an interesting twist that may or may not work. Still fun.
Oh, the DM is definately not a jerk.. maybe a little twisted though! ;P
I've never liked tri-speccing, or even dual speccing but after hashing out this new character I think its going to be really fun playing as I don't really play a caster type, even if the sorcerer class doesn't get leveled up much. But just looking at the character I see a lot of utility available and not just run up and start swinging at someone. Like I mentioned earlier, low power high utility character mixed with 5 others and it will definately be interesting and fun!
Oh, the DM is definately not a jerk.. maybe a little twisted though! ;P
**Insert evil DM laughing here.** Very twisted.
I think it will be fun and I really look forward to seeing what the other 5 players come up with. Like I said earlier, it may not work. Should be a blast anyway, and if it isn't we will just chalk it up to experience and try something else!
Brendimar deserves some credit for this build idea. Our resident paladin devotee has branched out. Wasn't too long ago that Brendimar, who had never played anything but a paladin, schooled the rest of us with just how deadly a monk can be. I'm glad I wasn't DM for that character. Ouch!
Now he is coming up with some very cool concepts that are far from your plain vanilla paladin. Well done sir. Well done.
Oh, and of course he still has all things paladin completely mastered. Great player, glad to have him in the gaming group. (Now that I have said all these flattering things, Brendimar better be careful in that first encounter!) **Insert more evil DM laughter**
Brendimar deserves some credit for this build idea. Our resident paladin devotee has branched out. Wasn't too long ago that Brendimar, who had never played anything but a paladin, schooled the rest of us with just how deadly a monk can be. I'm glad I wasn't DM for that character. Ouch!
Now he is coming up with some very cool concepts that are far from your plain vanilla paladin. Well done sir. Well done.
Oh, and of course he still has all things paladin completely mastered. Great player, glad to have him in the gaming group. (Now that I have said all these flattering things, Brendimar better be careful in that first encounter!) **Insert more evil DM laughter**
lol I knew it was you Crispy! So much for the element of surprise! I'll email you my character 5 minutes before game time so you can't prepare!
Oh, and I'm completely changing this build! :P
lol I knew it was you Crispy! So much for the element of surprise! I'll email you my character 5 minutes before game time so you can't prepare!
Oh, and I'm completely changing this build! :P
Dang it! Foiled again by my incessant need to type things on the interwebs. Oh well. I'm heading for the exit now.
lol I knew it was you Crispy! So much for the element of surprise! I'll email you my character 5 minutes before game time so you can't prepare!
Oh, and I'm completely changing this build! :P
Dang it! Foiled again by my incessant need to type things on the interwebs. Oh well. I'm heading for the exit now.
Thank you for the flattering words though as its nice to know that someone else thinks I'm doing a good job. Also, I can't make any promises but my character will try to be nice if you are! :P
I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-PNow, now. Let's not assume the DM is a jerk. Asking players to build something that they normally would never consider can lead to memorable and unexpected outcomes. I fully expect that this party will generate some combinations that will outperform, while others will not. Such a multi-class requirement is an interesting twist that may or may not work. Still fun.
Sorry, did not mean to imply that the DM was a bad one :-( It's just that I understood that the purpose of 3 classes was to reduce power levels - and this one will be pretty strong :-)
Sorry, did not mean to imply that the DM was a bad one :-( It's just that I understood that the purpose of 3 classes was to reduce power levels - and this one will be pretty strong :-)I could imagine it would be surprisingly strong, maybe even more than your DM intended with that tri-class rule :-PNow, now. Let's not assume the DM is a jerk. Asking players to build something that they normally would never consider can lead to memorable and unexpected outcomes. I fully expect that this party will generate some combinations that will outperform, while others will not. Such a multi-class requirement is an interesting twist that may or may not work. Still fun.
No harm done or intended I'm sure. :)
My only problem with this character now is, if this character gets to level 20.. how am I going to train each level? But I guess I kinda figured that out already since at monk 12 she will get abundant step (dimension door), 2d6 unarmed strike damage plus some other things. That would leave only 8 levels for the other classes and she may have to rely on just herself to keep herself alive with healing which making her cleric 6 would give her 4d6 negative energy.. not a lot but it helps. That would leave just 2 levels in sorcerer, doesn't seem too powerful other than her monk abilities.
I'm not sure if I'm willing to sacrifice monk levels since that is really her main class that will be utilized the most.
Any thoughts? Right now I'm open to any suggestions, even if lowering the monk class a little..
Current training idea:
Monk 12
Cleric 6
Sorcerer 2
I'll post the character details shortly.
I completely changed this up a bit so bear with me lol..
Race: Dhampir
Deity: Irori
STR: 10 (Original stat)
DEX: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)
CON: -9 (includes -2 racial bonus, original stat is 11)
INT: 10 (Original stat)
WIS: 16 (includes +1 level stat bonus, original stat is 15)
CHA: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)
Explanation for my DM so he knows I'm using the right stats! :)
CLASSES (Currently lvl 4):
Monk (Maneuver Master) lvl 2
Cleric (Separatist) lvl 1
Fighter (Brawler) lvl 1
"Thinking of using fighter instead of sorcerer to get feats practically every level."
BONUS FEATS:
Dodge
Improved Grapple
Defensive Combat Training
TRAINED FEATS:
Agile Maneuvers
Toughness (Helps offset -9 con stat)
TRAIT:
Magical Knack (Cleric)
CLERIC DOMAINS:
Thought
Exploration
NOTES: The brawler class of fighter will be a nice addition to the style of monk I plan on playing since most if not all the abilities of the brawler are close combat abilities.
She can still use wands for AC boosts with training in UMD and with level 1 or 2 wands the DC to use them are 11 and 13 respectively.
I swapped out the stats STR, CON and CHA.. Raising CHA gave her 2 more uses of channel negative energy to heal herself which I know will be a must have!
Using Sorcerer I had the following in place of fighter:
SUB-CLASS:
Wildblooded
DOMAIN:
ARCANE
Note: Arcane gave her a familiar ability which she took a monkey familiar (I know pretty funny!), but the monkey gives her +3 acrobatics if within 1 mile of her. Plus a monkey can have so many uses as its a better climber and acrobat than the monk right now.. Pretty handy monkey IMO!
You would replace the defensive combat training bonus feat for the eschew materials feat.
I'm still messing with this character but I think I'm getting closer to finishing it! Just weighing the pros and cons of keeping sorcerer, fighter or perhaps a totally different class.. sooo many choices!
•Light Sensitivity: Dhampires are dazzled in areas of bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
"Dazzled gives you a -1 to attack and -1 to perception (not a big deal considering this character is CMB dependant."
This looks like you might be overlooking the rules of Combat Maneuvers where you add bonuses to attack rolls as well as penalties to attack rolls on CMB checks.
Relevent PRD quote:
Performing a Combat Maneuver: When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
Now this also means that you apply penalties from Combat Expertise/Power Attack and bonuses from charging on CMB checks. Furthermore, you can add attack roll bonuses from Weapon Focus and a weapons enhancement bonus to the CMB check, provided you are using that weapon to make the CMB check.
Now in your case, using unarmed CMB you can apply weapon focus(unarmed) to CMB checks and if you cast magic fang/magic weapon on your fists then the enhancement bonus applies to grappling. Amulet of Might Fists will apply its enhancement bonus for all your unarmed CMB checks
Yeah, I use hero lab which does all the math for you and also provides a menu tab where you can add +/- bonuses or penalties. I've added the -1 to attack as well as -1 perception to the menu and it gives you the option to check or uncheck the penalty or bonus when needed. Very handy software while playing the game!
I appreciate your input! :)
I completely changed this up a bit so bear with me lol..
Race: Dhampir
Deity: Irori
STR: 10 (Original stat)
DEX: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)
CON: -9 (includes -2 racial bonus, original stat is 11)
INT: 10 (Original stat)
WIS: 16 (includes +1 level stat bonus, original stat is 15)
CHA: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)Explanation for my DM so he knows I'm using the right stats! :)
CLASSES (Currently lvl 4):
Monk (Maneuver Master) lvl 2
Cleric (Separatist) lvl 1
Fighter (Brawler) lvl 1"Thinking of using fighter instead of sorcerer to get feats practically every level."
BONUS FEATS:
Dodge
Improved Grapple
Defensive Combat TrainingTRAINED FEATS:
Agile Maneuvers
Toughness (Helps offset -9 con stat)TRAIT:
Magical Knack (Cleric)
CLERIC DOMAINS:
Thought
ExplorationNOTES: The brawler class of fighter will be a nice addition to the style of monk I plan on playing since most if not all the abilities of the brawler are close combat abilities.
She can still use wands for AC boosts with training in UMD and with level 1 or 2 wands the DC to use them are 11 and 13 respectively.
I swapped out the stats STR, CON and CHA.. Raising CHA gave her 2 more uses of channel negative energy to heal herself which I know will be a must have!
Using Sorcerer I had the following in place of fighter:
SUB-CLASS:
Wildblooded
DOMAIN:
ARCANE
Note: Arcane gave her a familiar ability which she took a monkey familiar (I know pretty funny!), but the monkey gives her +3 acrobatics if within 1 mile of her. Plus a monkey can have so many uses as its a better climber and acrobat than the monk right now.. Pretty handy monkey IMO!
You would replace the defensive combat training bonus feat for the eschew materials feat.
I'm still messing with this character but I think I'm getting closer to finishing it! Just weighing the pros and cons of keeping sorcerer, fighter or perhaps a totally different class.. sooo many choices!
...
Hm, I liked the other setup more :-/ I would particularly recommend staying away from the arcane line with a familiar - it won't level up and only be a risk to you.
I would not count on channeling too much. On very low levels, it might seem good. But it ist not really that much of healing, so I would not focus on it.
If you want feats, then I would focus more on them and scrap the whole cleric/sorcerer idea, so I suggest with monk/ranger (guide)/fighter (brawler). This way you get:
- A relatively high BAB of +3, Base Saves 7/5/3
- 2 monk bonus feats, flurry of maneuvers, fighter bonus feat, ranger favored enemy 1/day, track, wild empathy, stunning fist, unarmed strike, evasion.
- You can use wands on the ranger spell list from level 1 onwards (not starting at first level), so you can use wands of cure light wounds (not useful for your dhampir), wands of jumnp and such.
- Pick the dangerously curious trait to gain use magic device as a class skill, and indomitable faith to further improve that will save by +1.
- Use ranger's guide technique when you are fighting the important fights to improve your CMBs.
Do you want to play Dhampir for style? It looks like a nice racial choice, but I find half-elf or human a bit stronger mechanically for your purpose. Toying with ideas here :-)
Yeah, I figured the dhampir would be interesting to play and a real challenge if she took the monks vow of celibecy. She won't be able to be healed by the group, since negative energy heals her. She is taking cleric with negative energy to be somewhat self sufficient. Sorcerer for the AC buffs (using wands) and monk for all the combat maneuver abilities.
I think I will keep the monk/cleric/sorcerer combo..
I changed the sorcerer to have no sub-class, chose the bloodline of Serpentine that gives the character the ability to grow fangs (perfect for a dhampir race) which gives a bite attack with poison (1 con damage) at 1st level. Although its only a DC 9 to avoid being poisoned right now because its based off the dhampirs CON bonus, I can purchase things to boost CON or even put a stat point or two into it from leveling up.
I put sorcerer in for the magical knack trait since the sorcerer level most likely won't go beyond level 2.
So I think this is what will end up happening:
Monk 12
Cleric 6
Sorcerer 2
About the cleric channel energy, I can always buy a phylactory of channeling which adds +2d6 to make it 6d6 healing if needed which help more than 4d6.
Ok, I've completely changed this character again.. though I'm much more happier with this combo..
RACE: Dhampir
Deity: Kelemvor (We can use any Deity, not just pathfinder)
STATS:
STR: 10 (Original stat)
DEX: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)
CON: -9 (includes -2 racial bonus, original stat is 11)
INT: 10 (Original stat)
WIS: 16 (includes +1 level stat bonus, original stat is 15)
CHA: 16 (includes +2 racial bonus, original stat is 14)
CLASSES (Currently level 4):
Monk 2 (Maneuver Master)
Cleric 1 (Separatist, 1 domain plus 1 domain outside deity's)
Oracle 1 (Enlightened Philosopher)
BONUS FEATS:
Dodge
Improved Grapple
TRAINED FEATS:
Toughness (offsets -9 con)
Agile Maneuvers
RACIAL TRAIT:
Magical Knack (Oracle for boost to healing)
CLERIC DOMAINS:
Exploration (1st level ability, cairevoyance through walls/doors)
Artifice (1d6+1 damage per cleric level against constructs, also can mend objects at will)
CLERIC VARIANT CHANNELING:
Undead variant (+50% healing, nice for this character since she is healed by negative energy)
ORACLE MYSTERY:
Mystery of the Dark Tapestry
REVELATION:
Cloak of Darkness (+4 AC and +2 stealth for 1 hour/day per caster level)
ORACLE CURSE:
Tongues
_______________________________________________________
Right now at level 4 these are the special abilities/bonuses this character has..
1. AC Bonus +3 (monk)
2. Agile Maneuvers (Use dex instead of str for CMB)
3. Artificer's Tough (6/day)
4. Aura (cleric)
5. Channel Negative Energy (6/day)
6. Cloak of Darkness (Oracle, +4 AC and +2 Stealth for 1 hour/day per lvl)
7. Damage Reduction 5/-
8. Darkvision 60 feet
9. Door Sight (6/day)
10. Evasion
11. Flurry of Maneuvers
12. Immunity to Acid
13. Immunity to Critical Hits
14. Immuntiy to Precision Damage
15. Improved Grapple
16. Improved Unarmed Strike
17. Light Sensitivity (-1 attack, -1 perception in bright light)
18. Low-Light Vision
19. Magical knack: Oracle
20. Negative Energy Affinity
21. Resist Level Drain
22. Spontaneous Caster (cleric)
23. Stunning Fist (2/day)
24. Tongues: Auran (oracle curse)
25. Undead Resistance (Dhampir, +2 save vs disease, mind affecting spells)
26. Undead Variant Channeling (Cleric, enhanced healing for undead)
I'm liking this set up a lot and I think I'm finally done messing with this character. The one thing that hasn't been approved by the DM yet is the variant channeling abilities but I'm sure that if its pathfinder supported then it might be allowed. I have the cleric and oracle who can use it but I chose the cleric with the channel negative energy, +50% healing with channeling is nice since her channeling won't get past 4d6, might get to 6d6 with a phylatory of channeling though.
I know its almost pointless to have two healing type classes together, but when each class provides different abilities or bonuses it seems to work out good for this character as her main focus is the Monk class anyways. If she didn't train in Oracle and have the dark tapestry mystery then she would lose immunity to acid, critical hits and precision damage which I think will be a huge factor later in levels if she lives long enough lol!
If anyone is still out there.. opinions are still welcome!
Thanks!
I made a mistake on some of the special abilities listed, Hero lab shows that these are available at 1st level but are not actually available till level 20..
Immunities to Acid, Critical Hits, Precision Damage.
I made a mistake on some of the special abilities listed, Hero lab shows that these are available at 1st level but are not actually available till level 20..
Immunities to Acid, Critical Hits, Precision Damage.
Are those the ones you do not have or those you have? I am not sure ;-)
You seem to like changing your build frequently, I can't keep up ;-P
I am not sure why you choose oracle, though. I do not find the cloak of darkness very impressive, especially not with just one oracle level: You can only use it 1/day for 1 hour. That's like a sorcerer's mage armor, only that you can get a different spell list with that other sample build.
Why do you choose the oracle? :-)
I made a mistake on some of the special abilities listed, Hero lab shows that these are available at 1st level but are not actually available till level 20..
Immunities to Acid, Critical Hits, Precision Damage.
Are those the ones you do not have or those you have? I am not sure ;-)
You seem to like changing your build frequently, I can't keep up ;-P
I am not sure why you choose oracle, though. I do not find the cloak of darkness very impressive, especially not with just one oracle level: You can only use it 1/day for 1 hour. That's like a sorcerer's mage armor, only that you can get a different spell list with that other sample build.
Why do you choose the oracle? :-)
The character will not have those immunities until level 20, no point in taking oracle since level 20 isn't going to happen.
I mainly chose oracle for the extra healing with negative energy added to what healing the cleric class gives. I guess taking sorcerer is the best option for this tri-spec build.. my brain hurts and has gone to mush trying to think of a good 3rd class to add to monk/cleric/?.. lol
Perhaps the original sorcerer build with Wildblooded/Empyreal fits the best.
I made a mistake on some of the special abilities listed, Hero lab shows that these are available at 1st level but are not actually available till level 20..
Immunities to Acid, Critical Hits, Precision Damage.
Are those the ones you do not have or those you have? I am not sure ;-)
You seem to like changing your build frequently, I can't keep up ;-P
I am not sure why you choose oracle, though. I do not find the cloak of darkness very impressive, especially not with just one oracle level: You can only use it 1/day for 1 hour. That's like a sorcerer's mage armor, only that you can get a different spell list with that other sample build.
Why do you choose the oracle? :-)The character will not have those immunities until level 20, no point in taking oracle since level 20 isn't going to happen.
I mainly chose oracle for the extra healing with negative energy added to what healing the cleric class gives. I guess taking sorcerer is the best option for this tri-spec build.. my brain hurts and has gone to mush trying to think of a good 3rd class to add to monk/cleric/?.. lol
Perhaps the original sorcerer build with Wildblooded/Empyreal fits the best.
I do not see how you would have received extra healing with the dark tapestry mystery anyway. I only know that the oracle of life gains channel energy, but I may have missed something there :-)
If you want to use channeling to heal yourself better, just take the extra channel feat. You could then even exchange the sorcerer level with fighter for the bonus feat to make room for the extra channel feat. Or you revert to one of my original suggestions: the inquisitor. It uses wisdom as casting stat, so it's great for you, and you could choose inflict light wounds as one of your spells. The judgement would give you great boosts as well, particularly since there are feats for it. Finally, you could choose eldritch heritage with a charisma as high as yours and gain sorcerer bloodline powers which grow with your character level, e.g. celestial for heavenly fire (heals you 1/day and each of your allies, but hurts evil creatures), elemental or draconic (for attacks and resistances) etc.So you could go monk 2/inquisitor 1/cleric 1 and take extra channel a few times. Optionally take skill focus (sorcerer class skill) and eldritch heritage in what you like.
This option would be purely divine with many orisons, a varies spell list and enough options to boost and heal yourself to make it through large parts of the game IMO :-)
I made a mistake on some of the special abilities listed, Hero lab shows that these are available at 1st level but are not actually available till level 20..
Immunities to Acid, Critical Hits, Precision Damage.
Are those the ones you do not have or those you have? I am not sure ;-)
You seem to like changing your build frequently, I can't keep up ;-P
I am not sure why you choose oracle, though. I do not find the cloak of darkness very impressive, especially not with just one oracle level: You can only use it 1/day for 1 hour. That's like a sorcerer's mage armor, only that you can get a different spell list with that other sample build.
Why do you choose the oracle? :-)The character will not have those immunities until level 20, no point in taking oracle since level 20 isn't going to happen.
I mainly chose oracle for the extra healing with negative energy added to what healing the cleric class gives. I guess taking sorcerer is the best option for this tri-spec build.. my brain hurts and has gone to mush trying to think of a good 3rd class to add to monk/cleric/?.. lol
Perhaps the original sorcerer build with Wildblooded/Empyreal fits the best.
I do not see how you would have received extra healing with the dark tapestry mystery anyway. I only know that the oracle of life gains channel energy, but I may have missed something there :-)
If you want to use channeling to heal yourself better, just take the extra channel feat. You could then even exchange the sorcerer level with fighter for the bonus feat to make room for the extra channel feat. Or you revert to one of my original suggestions: the inquisitor. It uses wisdom as casting stat, so it's great for you, and you could choose inflict light wounds as one of your spells. The judgement would give you great boosts as well, particularly since there are feats for it. Finally, you could choose eldritch heritage with a charisma as high as yours and gain...
I've changed to monk/cleric/inquisitor, chose the infiltrator archetype.. I think I'm finally done! lol
Well, then congratulations are due, aren't they ;-)
Good luck with your character. If you have time, please share your experience on how it worked out :-) See you!
Well, then congratulations are due, aren't they ;-)
Good luck with your character. If you have time, please share your experience on how it worked out :-) See you!
I will be back at some point to share the experience on the character and thank you very much for all your help.. You definately gave me ideas that I wouldn't have thought of on my own!
Take care and thank you! :)
UPDATE!!
After all that hard work figuring out this character, she is dead after 2 sessions! :(
Blaming the evil DM, his gunslinger enemy and good rolls! :)
Oh well, back to the drawing board and hopefully last more than 2 sessions!
UPDATE!!
After all that hard work figuring out this character, she is dead after 2 sessions! :(
Blaming the evil DM, his gunslinger enemy and good rolls! :)
Oh well, back to the drawing board and hopefully last more than 2 sessions!
Hi Brendimar, welcome back :-)
Too bad your character was dead so quickly :-( Was it fun, any memorable scenes?
What will your new one be like?
Cheers!
Hey Sangalor,
Her life was a bit short to have any memorable scenes lol, was just bad luck with rolls on my part and the DM was much better at rolling that night!
Currently I'm looking into making a Paladin / Cleric / Alchemist
Race: Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha)
Stats:
STR: 16 (original stat 15, +1 level stat bonus and helps with carrying weight, heavy armor and melee)
DEX: 11
CON: 10
INT: 10
WIS: 16 (original stat 14, +2 racial bonus)
CHA: 16 (original stat 14, +2 racial bonus)
Cleric will be Separatist archtype.
DOMAINS:
Travel
Healing
Paladin will be the Hospitalor archtype. (favored class)
Alchemist will be the Internal Alchemist.
If the character makes it to level 20, if the campaign goes that far and she doesn't die.. I plan on training like this:
Paladin level 10
Cleric level 8
Alchemist level 2
Level 8 cleric will get me the dimension door (travel domain) ability at 80' per day, and the combined levels of paladin and cleric will get me 8d6 channel positive energy, 5d6 lay on hands and with the hospitalor archtype both healing types (channel and lay hands) are separate which boosts healing usage a lot. The alchemist would just be the dipping class, get a free brew potion bonus feat and 1 mutagen per day to boost strength or dex (more AC).
I'm still not sure if I want to use the alchemist or put another class in there.. I did try sorcerer first but with heavy armor the arcane failure is too high. The best armor she could use would be mithral chain shirt with a 10% failure, not bad mind you but her AC is way to low for a caster/melee hybrid.
Any suggestions...?
Hey Sangalor,
Her life was a bit short to have any memorable scenes lol, was just bad luck with rolls on my part and the DM was much better at rolling that night!
Currently I'm looking into making a Paladin / Cleric / Alchemist
Race: Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha)
Stats:
STR: 16 (original stat 15, +1 level stat bonus and helps with carrying weight, heavy armor and melee)
DEX: 11
CON: 10
INT: 10
WIS: 16 (original stat 14, +2 racial bonus)
CHA: 16 (original stat 14, +2 racial bonus)Cleric will be Separatist archtype.
DOMAINS:
Travel
HealingPaladin will be the Hospitalor archtype. (favored class)
Alchemist will be the Internal Alchemist.
If the character makes it to level 20, if the campaign goes that far and she doesn't die.. I plan on training like this:
Paladin level 10
Cleric level 8
Alchemist level 2Level 8 cleric will get me the dimension door (travel domain) ability at 80' per day, and the combined levels of paladin and cleric will get me 8d6 channel positive energy, 5d6 lay on hands and with the hospitalor archtype both healing types (channel and lay hands) are separate which boosts healing usage a lot. The alchemist would just be the dipping class, get a free brew potion bonus feat and 1 mutagen per day to boost strength or dex (more AC).
I'm still not sure if I want to use the alchemist or put another class in there.. I did try sorcerer first but with heavy armor the arcane failure is too high. The best armor she could use would be mithral chain shirt with a 10% failure, not bad mind you but her AC is way to low for a caster/melee hybrid.
Any suggestions...?
Well, I'll try again ;-P
First of all, why the high wisdom? Neither of the classes you list requires a high wisdom at those levels you list. The minimum you need with the mentioned setup is int 11, wis 14, and cha 14. Cha is more important IMO since it determines your smites, lay on hands, and channelings, so I would rather focus on that.
Cleric I would not put much into wisdom. Your saves should be covered by divine grace and multiclassing, and you would only require it for cleric - where I would suggest you avoid spells that require saves and focus on buffing and utility spells instead.
I am not sure about the alchemist - why do you want it? I could see ranger, fighter, maybe even cavalier here, to keep your BAB up and gain feats, skill points or abilities. If you don't go too far, sorcerer is absolutely a possibility: there are enough spells that do not require somatic components and thus do not cause arcane spell failure, e.g. feather fall and true strike. This way you can augment your combat prowess and increase survivability, use wands etc. So it is possible IMO, even going for DD later on :-)
Also, about the paladin: I recommend oath of vengeance paladin instead of hospitaler. You lose the channeling, but you will be able to convert your lay on hands into smite evils - very useful, especially if you get your hands on a silver smite bracelet. Maybe give it a thought - after all, wands are cheap and you can use them without trouble :-)
Now, I will assume you start at level 4 again, and go with the hospitaler. It looks like you have an 18 point-buy, so I will work with that. Possibile build:
paladin 2/ cleric 1/ ranger (guide & trapper) 1
STR 15 +1 level up = 16
DEX 10 = 10
CON 14 = 14
INT 10 = 10
WIS 11 +2 racial = 13 (put 1 point here later)
CHA 14 +2 racial = 16
Feats
1 power attack
3 improved bull rush
3b track
features:
divine grace, smite evil, aura of good, detect evil, lay on hands, ranger's focus, trapfinding, channel energy, domains, orisons, spontaneous casting
saves fort/ref/will 3+2+2+2+3=12 / 0+0+2+0+3=5 / 3+2+0+1+3=9
BAB 3, HP = 10+5.5+4.5+5.5+4*2=33 on average
...
You can then go ranger 2 the next level to get a weapon style like two-weapon fighting. Or continue the other levels :-)
You can bull rush, deal decent damage quickly, channel to heal, lay on hands, get a damage bonus for any kind of enemy with ranger's focus once per day, disarm traps, have high saves, domain bonuses... Should get you far.
Alternatively, take sorcerer as mentioned above and choose spells without somatic components.
Or fighter to gain a bonus feat.
So much for starters, let me know if something interests you there :-)
I was thinking alchemist at first but then I started looking into oracle as a replacement.. I'll tell you why, so far the group doesn't have any healer types.
We have:
bard/ranger/rogue
fighter/barbarian/magus
monk/fighter/rogue (I believe thats the combo)
We also have another rogue/??/?? not sure of the other classes and the last player hasn't played the new campaign yet so not sure what he is planning on playing. So you see why I'm picking multiple healing type classes? lol
Paladin 2 - Hospitaler
Cleric 1 - Separatist (I really like the choice of added a forbidden domain)
Oracle 1 - Enlightened Philosopher
Same Race: Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha)
I do like your stats placement and I think I'll stick with that.
I don't think I'll play this character too much in melee, more of a support class even though she has levels in paladin. I'll give you reasons for my choices of each class and archetype..
PALADIN (Hospitaler)
Main reasons:
1. Separates lay on hands and channel energy (effect is more healing)
2. Charisma bonus to saves
3. Channel Energy
4. Full BAB class
5. Immunities
The usual benefits from being a paladin.
CLERIC (Separatist)
1. Domains (Travel domain, Agile feet and dimension door abilities)
2. Forbidden domain (Healing domain, more heals although small)
3. Channel Energy
ORACLE (Enlightened Philosopher)
1. Mystery of Lore
2. Revelation (Side Step, uses CHA instead of DEX for AC, huge bonus imo)
3. Added spells for healing although only cure lights
I plan on leveling the character to this if she ever gets to 20:
Paladin 10
Cleric 8
Oracle 2
Oracle is a dipping class for the AC switch, gaining all knowledge skills. But looking at the character in hero-lab, she looks like a solid tri-spec. I'm far from finishing this character so anything can change! lol
I was thinking alchemist at first but then I started looking into oracle as a replacement.. I'll tell you why, so far the group doesn't have any healer types.
We have:
bard/ranger/rogue
fighter/barbarian/magus
monk/fighter/rogue (I believe thats the combo)We also have another rogue/??/?? not sure of the other classes and the last player hasn't played the new campaign yet so not sure what he is planning on playing. So you see why I'm picking multiple healing type classes? lol
Paladin 2 - Hospitaler
Cleric 1 - Separatist (I really like the choice of added a forbidden domain)
Oracle 1 - Enlightened PhilosopherSame Race: Aasimar (+2 wis, +2 cha)
I do like your stats placement and I think I'll stick with that.
I don't think I'll play this character too much in melee, more of a support class even though she has levels in paladin. I'll give you reasons for my choices of each class and archetype..
PALADIN (Hospitaler)
Main reasons:
1. Separates lay on hands and channel energy (effect is more healing)
2. Charisma bonus to saves
3. Channel Energy
4. Full BAB class
5. ImmunitiesThe usual benefits from being a paladin.
CLERIC (Separatist)
1. Domains (Travel domain, Agile feet and dimension door abilities)
2. Forbidden domain (Healing domain, more heals although small)
3. Channel EnergyORACLE (Enlightened Philosopher)
1. Mystery of Lore
2. Revelation (Side Step, uses CHA instead of DEX for AC, huge bonus imo)
3. Added spells for healing although only cure lightsI plan on leveling the character to this if she ever gets to 20:
Paladin 10
Cleric 8
Oracle 2Oracle is a dipping class for the AC switch, gaining all knowledge skills. But looking at the character in hero-lab, she looks like a solid tri-spec. I'm far from finishing this character so anything can change! lol
Hm, I can see that you want to have more healing available. I am not really convinced of stacking classes like you did in your example. Generally in D&D/Pathfinder you need to decide and focus on something. For martial characters that usually is base attack bonus. For casters that is usually caster level and spell progression.
With the setup above you seem to try to get two things at once: healing and fighting (paladin, cleric). The different channels don't increase significantly, and you won't have more than 1d6 available for the next four levels. This way you can maybe stabilize dying party members, but not much more.
If you want to be good at healing and support, I think you should try to decouple corresponding abilities from class progression and link it to character progression instead.
One thing you could do is take eldritch heritage for the celestial sorcerer bloodline. This way you gain the heavenly fire power which can be used to heal one good creature at distance once a day, and hurt evil ones more than once. It will increase with your character level, so this is something you can rely on in the future. Starting at level 4 - that is right from the start - you will heal 1d4+1 which is the same as 1d6 from channeling on average, so you do not really lose something there. Therefore I recommend you take the feats skill focus (heal) and eldritch heritage (celestial).
As for classes, cavalier might be a good choice. You can grant a teamwork feat that you gain for free to allies 1/day, gain more uses with the practiced tactician feat, and if you have 2 levels it lasts for 4 rounds. 1 level is still absolutely feasible. Also, it's full BAB, so you will benefit there.
As a third class, I think inquisitor would be the best choice. Boosts saves, gain a domain, spellcasting, and you can get healing via judgements (fast healing - yeah :-)).
So I think a suitable combination would be paladin 2/cavalier 1/inquisitor 1 together with the abovementioned eldritch heritage way. Now I know this something almost totally different from your original idea, but maybe it approaches more that what you want to achieve.Plus you will still be great in combat, and you can do some serious group buffing with the tactician ability (lookout or allied spellcaster comes to mind).
So what do you think? :-P
Some good idea there.. all this typing is a pain! lol
Do you use ventrilo by any chance? would be so much easier than typing and waiting! lol
Oh, and you are most likely aware of it, but don't forget that 20 level characters usually look good on paper. Getting to that level 20 is often a problem though. I have seen many builds which looked great and were certainly fantastic at a certain level for which I could not help but wonder how that character ever survived long enough to become that great :-/
So I would try to emphasize survivability in the low levels which I feel is better with my suggested combination. Plus you can fill the role of supporter/buffer, healer and fighter adequately IMO (heavy armor, divine spells, distance healing etc.) :-)
Some good idea there.. all this typing is a pain! lol
Do you use ventrilo by any chance? would be so much easier than typing and waiting! lol
No, is that something like skype? I am usually not online very much during the week.